re Canada Post Small Packages.

[ammolitehunter]

Whats really weird is that I can send a small package to Australia for under $9 using Canada Post Small Package but I cant send one from BC to Nova Scotia using that or a similar service for that price.

Wake up Canada Post!

[toff3]

Hilarious how the apologists for Canada Post come up with the same old tired arguments (BIG country, thinly populated...competing couriers...etc, etc) and hare-brained new theories (such as Mr Elmwood's) to try and explain why it costs less to mail something to Australia than within Canada...when the answer is staring them in the face.

Mr E appears to believe his package to Australia is popped into a bag marked AUSTRALIA by the mail sorters at CP and leaves the country next morning(!) - simple. That'll be the frosty Friday in July.

Canada Post pays for the delivery of mail from Canada in Australia, just as Australia Post pays for delivery of mail from Australia in Canada. This is by agreement between members of the Universal Postal Union, as alluded to by Femme.

Speaking of the UPU, they designate letters and packages weighing up to 2 kg as lettermail. Canada is a signatory to the UPU treaty but Canada Post follows UPU rules only when it suits them or when forced to.

You have an envelope weighing 505 g to send from Toronto to Montreal? That'll have to go as a Regular Parcel, costing $9.38 (incl. fuel surcharge), nearly 2.5 times as much as the same envelope weighing 500 g ($3.94).

You want to send a small package weighing 1.1 kg to USA as a Small Packet? Sorry, no can do, that has to go as an Expedited Parcel.

Tom 

[pierrelebel]

"the same old tired arguments (BIG country, thinly populated...competing couriers...etc, etc)"

???

Do you have a problem with reality?

Canada is a very large country.

Canada has a relatively small population.

Canada Post has to compete with other carriers except for lettermail.

Those are realities you cannot escape.  It has nothing to do with apologizing for Canada Post. 

OK their rate structures are different from other postal authorities.  They are not perfect but I have yet to see anyone proposing a better system yielding the same revenues for Canada Post.

It is easy to criticize and suggest lower rates.  Anyone can do that.  But that will not solve the financial results at Canada Post where their reality is very simple: the drop in lettermail revenues is greater than the increase in revenues from the parcel division while costs are constantly increasing.

Now is time for those folks to suggest selling Canada Post to private enterprise and that will solve all the problems.  Question: who is willing to pay billions of dollars for assets held by Canada Post when there is so little prospect of profit on the investment?

[mr.elmwood]

Tom, here is what a parcel does from me:

4:30 pm pickup

Sorted at the plant down the road at night

On the truck to Mississauga

Over to the airport.

Out the next day

How do I know these things? Tracking on Expedited parcels tells me these things. When I lived in Winnipeg, parcels to the western USA cleared Canada at the BC plant within 36 hours. How do I know this? Expedited tracking showed acceptance into the USA Customs plant. Parcels from Winnipeg to Eastern USA? Into the USA through Mississauga with 36 hours. How do I know this? Acceptance scan by USA Customs showed me that.

To insult me simply shows that you need to drag people down.

Please, do not insult me with your "Oh yeah! Says you." line of reasoning.

[pierrelebel]

On Tuesday afternoon, Mary and I ordered three books from Chapters.  They arrived this morning. Less than 48 hours from Mississauga to Belleville.

Also on Tuesday, I ordered some business cards for my 16 year old granddaughter, the artist! They were shipped yesterday and arrived this morning.  Less than 24 hours from Windsor to Belleville.

So, the Canada Post service is good.  It does what it is expected to do and a bit faster yet.

The cost?  I do not know.  Those large companies with substantial parcel volume get huge discounts compared to the individual shipping one or a few parcels at the time.

[rose-dee]

---

@femmefan1946 wrote:

And the answer is the Universal Postal Union!

Very basically, all the signators to the UPU agree to accept and process foreign mail as if it were their own.

So while  it is true that Canada Post handles each piece of domestic mail more than it does a piece of mail addressed overseas, it is conversely true that Canada Post handles foreign mail that arrives on our shores.

Since there are always going to be differences in the number of pieces coming in and going out for every one of the 178 countries who are signators to the tready, there is some very very complicated bookkeeping going on at all times.

And then there is China Post. Eventually the UPU will catch up with them.

---

Thank you for coming to the rescue 'femmefan' -- I knew I'd seen this information somewhere, i.e. that the explanation for the Australian "disconnect" in postal costs wasn't simply a matter of economy of scale (or even leftover loyalties among Commonwealth members).  

This also explains why China Post has been getting away with murder, postally-speaking.  

[rose-dee]

---

@pierrelebel wrote:

So, the Canada Post service is good.  It does what it is expected to do and a bit faster yet.

The cost?  I do not know.  Those large companies with substantial parcel volume get huge discounts compared to the individual shipping one or a few parcels at the time.

---

I agree with you Pierre.  For individuals and smaller operations, I think our postal system provides some pretty outstanding service considering the vast areas it has to cover and the ever-rising cost of fuel, wages, etc.  I don't mind the cost too much as long as the service is exemplary.  

To be completely honest, I personally have never had a bad experience with Canada Post, so I've never felt I could criticize its ability to deliver in a timely, careful manner.  Credit where credit is due...

[toff3]

Mr E,

What has your Expedited Parcel to USA experience got to do with what you wrote in your earlier post, as follows?:

My parcels to Australia. I drop them off in a bin to go to the sorting plant in town, down to Mississauga, then out of the country the next morning.

I can assure you that mail to Australia does not routinely leave the country the day after mailing.

I'm in full agreement with you that Expedited Parcel-USA is an excellent service, extremely fast, reliable and secure. What I object to is Canada Post forcing me to use this enhanced service when I would be perfectly satisfied to use a cheaper and slower service (such as Small Packet), which I believe I have a right to expect. That's  what this thread is about, not speed of delivery, not the reliability of the mails, not how Canada Post deals with the challenges of operating in a huge, thinly-populated country.

As you didn't comment on them, do you feel the two examples of Canada Post pricing that I gave in my last post are perfectly acceptable? 

Pierre and Rose-dee didn't respond to the topic, either.

Maybe you're all happy with Canada Post's pricing.

Maybe in Canada Post we have the postal authority we deserve.

Tom

[tobyshitzu]

"who is willing to pay billions of dollars for assets held by Canada Post when there is so little prospect of profit on the investment?"

There was far more demand then expected for the royal mail IPO

"That has triggered a sense of postal envy in Ottawa. This could have been Canada Post’s big payday."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/european-business/royal-mai...

[bcwet]

What you say would make sense if Canadapost charged other countries the fee for shipping the item once it hit Canada those extra hundreds of miles and scans from places like china but they pass that fee on to us. Something interesting ive noticed lately is that when i purchase from the us the charge was $6.11 Canadapost then slaps an xpresspost label on the item thats a 15 dollar label this side of the border and does not charge them one cent extra. They get far more than they paid for why dont they do that for Canadian sellers?

My guess is they were paying so much back to usps in "lost items" that they want to ensure they get here. My husband works at gateway and apparently they are overlabelling all orders with xpresspost labels they are also not charging customs fees on anything under 100 dollars. I refuse to buy from anyone using the global shipping program.

[recped]

Something interesting ive noticed lately is that when i purchase from the us the charge was $6.11 Canadapost then slaps an xpresspost label on the item thats a 15 dollar label this side of the border and does not charge them one cent extra. They get far more than they paid for why dont they do that for Canadian sellers?

When you ship a Package via Canada Post Expedited USA when it get's to the US it becomes Priority Mail which is an Air Service even though Expedited-USA is a SURFACE service, you don't pay any "extra" to USPS but they upgrade the service.

[toff3]

Recped,

In my experience, Expedited Parcel-USA is not exclusively a surface service within Canada. I (who lives in Ottawa) have had parcels sent by Canada Post from Montreal Mirabel airport directly to the USPS New York ISC. I believe Canada Post endeavours to bring EP-USA mail across the border as quickly possible, which may be by surface in some instance, by air in others.

Anyway, all this has nothing to do with thequestion posed by the OP, i.e. why does it cost more to send a mail piece within Canada than outside Canada?

As usual, the discussion has gone completely off the rails.

Tom  

[ammolitehunter]

You have my question exactly.

I was amused to see the responses from some that had no bearing whatsoever on my question.

For the record--I think Canada Post does an excellent job over all.

Still though--I can send a 2inch by 2 inch parcel from Nova Scotia to California for about $8 by Small Package--but it costs me around $20 to send the same thing to BC--because there is no Canada Post Small Package service in Canada--it has to go Expedited!

[aramatic]

How right you are! The lack of anything similar to a Small Packet WITHIN Canada is a joke. Selling small items is made ridiculously difficult. It doesn't matter if the item is as light as a feather, if it's over 2cm you're into parcel rates. It's always ludicrous to list an item that can be shipped more cheaply to the US than it can to the next town 20 miles away.

[spinorfields]

Canada post DOES set the rate to Australia. Under UPU agreement each country sets rates to others and keeps all of the payment received. Australia then delivers Canada's mail going there for free and Canada delivers Australia's mail coming here for free. There are reciprocal agreements is cases where the tonnage going one way are the other are too out of whack and some compensation is paid on a tonnage difference, not on individual pieces of mail.