50% UPS Brokerage fee????

[kazoobers]

I bought an item that was $99.95 US. The Seller charged me $16.00 for UPS standard shipping to Canada.

The package arrived and here is a Brokerage C.O.D. due to UPS for $54.17. What a rip! The seller said nothing about additional fees due IN ADDITION to the $16.00 I paid him for the shipping. By looking under Help in eBay, I see there is nothing I can do about it.

[adam12adam12]

This thread is a nightmare for new feeBay buyers. Who's going to read 420 posts...it's a novel for gsakes. I guess all we are trying to say here is buyer beware, and if you choose UPS over the border, be willing to pay 50% more for your item !!!!!!!!

[ferret-mom]

When you agreed to have the seller ship with UPS you AGREED to abide by the terms of UPS.

And what happens when you AGREE to have your seller ship United States Postal Service, but he ships UPS instead?

[coinsnmore2007]

That is a Seller Non Performance issue.
Establish an alibi and eliminate the motive!

[ferret-mom]

Fine, so blame the seller, and quit dumping on buyers who have very little control over what many sellers ultimately choose to do when completing the transaction.

[coinsnmore2007]

"quit dumping on buyers who have very little control over what many sellers ultimately choose to do when completing the transaction."

I never dumped on buyers whose sellers sent an item via a method other than what was listed in the terms of their auction.

I merely stated that a seller can not be held responsible, when shipping via the method in the listing, for the import fees of a shipping company when shipping to another country.

That is up to the buyer.

Someone on this thread keeps saying that UPS should let the sender know about the brokerage fees. In my opinion that will not do anything because if UPS is convenient for the sender to use, that is what he will use. No mater what UPS tells them the brokerage fees are.
Establish an alibi and eliminate the motive!

[jakeeangel]

No that's not seller non-peformance. Seller non-performance is when they won't sell you or ship you your item. Changing the terms of how the item is sent to you is a problem that needs to be worked out between buyer and seller.

But you're talking apples & oranges Ferret. Most people are talking strictly about the brokerage charges not the seller sending the item a different way. AND you have to remember that too many people, Canadians included, confuse USPS with UPS. Don't use the acronyms. Spell it out.

And you can only ask a seller to ship with a method you would like, they don't have to. If their listing says they ship with UPS they don't have to ship with anything else. Many US sellers use couriers because it's more convenient and they get tracking to comply with PayPal's SPP.

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When you find doing what's right hard to do - you've got a problem.

[ferret-mom]

Sorry, coins, I wasn't referring to you in particular.

You have to admit, though, that there appear to be some apologists for UPS here who seem to think that buyers are always to blame, no matter what the circumstances happen to be.

[jakeeangel]

Telling a fact is not being an apologist. UPS is a company that provides a service and are allowed to charge for that service. It's that simple.

You as an importer, whether personal or commercial are responsible for all fees and knowing and abiding by the rules. If you try to import something that isn't allowed into Canada and it gets confiscated by Customs who do you think is responsible for that? The seller? The shipper? NO! You would be!!

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When you find doing what's right hard to do - you've got a problem.

[deev_hutch]

As jakeeangel says:

"You didn't know that? Too bad! It doesn't change the fact that it's there in the fine print."

And that, my friends, is the totality of the arguments from the UPS lovers in this thread.

In other words, USP can charge whatever they want, without proper disclosure, to unsuspecting people, and neener neener, they can do whatever they want.

Thankfully, there are laws to protect consumers against "fine print" and I expect that UPS will shortly have to give better disclosure of their brokerage fees.

[ferret-mom]

And you still haven't answered my question.

If I agree to have the shipper send my goods specifically and only by mail (USPS), yet he/she decides to ship the goods by courier (UPS), have I agreed in any way, shape or form to accept the UPS shipping terms?

If not, then how does that make me responsible?

[jakeeangel]

Ferret, in that case I would refuse the shipment. Email the seller and give them a what for! Remind them of their agreement, tell them why you refused and tell them it's their responsibility to send it the way it was agreed to. But for me, it depends on the item, it's value and how quickly I wanted/needed it.

Some things I don't think should be delivered by the postal system because their insurance program stinks, their delivery time and standards stink and if I pay for a signature I WANT a signature. That way I know I get the item and not some guy walking down the street spotting a package sitting on a doorstep. 😞



No Hutch, I don't love UPS. What I'm saying is it's up to you to know the agreement you're entering into. Be it with eBay or an eBay listing or PayPal or UPS or anyone else. Ignorance is no excuse. You not knowing bringing certain drugs into a country is illegal is not going to excuse you from being committed of the crime.

Maybe you need to reread the letter posted from the lawyer. They are looking into it. UPS hasn't been sued yet. All they're doing is preliminary work. They may even decide not to sue them. You're jumping the gun a bit thinking that things are going to change soon.

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When you find doing what's right hard to do - you've got a problem.

[deev_hutch]

blah blah blah, sucks to be you, blah blah blah

That's all I hear from UPS apologists.

[northlandca]

When one runs out of good arguments ...

[gsr63]

I will ignore a lot of the replies that are going back and forth and going nowhere.

I am looking for intelligent input to these two issues -

In other words -
#1 - tell the buyer, before or at the time of bidding that if this item is shipped via UPS - "You will incur XX charges at the time of delivery." This may be possible. eBay knows what Country you are registered in. It knows what Country you are buying from. It could say "Your profile shows you are a Canadian. You are buying from the U.S. Your shipment may incur Duties, Taxes, and Brokerage Fees of approximately XX.." And then you would have the option to continue to bid or not?

#2 - "What to charge." I have seen the feedback that UPS / DHL / FedEx can charge "Whatever they want..." Which, of course, is true - they can. Maybe we could re-phrase the question. What would we, the buyers PREFER. A flat rate or a percentage of the selling price? ** NOTE - I AM NOT ASKING "IF" YOU CAN TELL A COMPANY WHAT TO CHARGE.. I AM LOOKING FOR INTELLIGENT INPUT ON WHAT YOU WOULD PREFER TO BE CHARGED. IF YOU THINK YOU CAN'T INFLUENCE HOW A COMPANY CHARGES - DON'T RESPOND. I AM LOOKING FOR INTELLIGENT INPUT FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE OPINIONS ON HOW THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE CHARGED. THANK YOU!:-) **

So, I am looking for input on #2 above..

[lokijeep]

Most of us have been burned by UPS; that's how we learned, myself included.

Perhaps instead of asking the same question here over and over (and not getting the replies you want) perhaps you can find another forum to better suit your request.

[deev_hutch]

grs63:

I would PREFER a flat rate, and most importantly, a rate that is clearly explained to the shipper of goods to Canada. The brokerage work done for a simple package of consumer goods in a box is identical if the value of the package is $30 or $300. Why charge more for the identical work in this case? (currently, because they can.)

This flat rate would apply to any simple shipment of consumer goods (ie that does not require special brokerage work)

This would enable the shipper to make a logical decision about which shipping method would be best for their customer, and nobody would be "surprised" by not reading the fine print.

[gsr63]

deev_hutch -

Thank you for the input.
I agree - it can seem strange for the Brokerage Fee to be all over the place when the Customs Broker is doing the 'same thing' regardless if it is a $100 item or a $12,000 item.
Traditionally, a Customs Broker such as UPS / FedEx, etc., charge their fees based on the value and amount of work involved in clearing a shipment. The somtimes-unique aspect of an eBay shipment is that it is very often 1 commodity - 1 item. So, in some cases, the customs clearance can be quite simple because the Customs Broker is not having to break out all the different items in a shipment and apply tariff and duty and tax rates to each item, different countries of origin, etc.

There can be exceptions of course with lot items, multi items, etc.

A flat rate regardless of value may be simple to do.

[canuckchat]

A flat rate for personal consumer imported goods would make sense; whether it can be implemented or not, that is a question for the future.

What if you import a "personal consumer item" that is a value of $10,000? Same fee on that as on a $25 item?

[deev_hutch]

"What if you import a "personal consumer item" that is a value of $10,000? Same fee on that as on a $25 item?"

If the paperwork/time to clear through customs was identical for the $10,000 and the $25 item, I would expect to pay the same for the identical service. If for some reason the more expensive item took longer or had different paperwork, I'd expect to pay more brokerage.

[gsr63]

I think this is reasonable -
"If the paperwork/time to clear through customs was identical for the $10,000 and the $25 item, I would expect to pay the same for the identical service. If for some reason the more expensive item took longer or had different paperwork, I'd expect to pay more brokerage. "

I know this is a tough question to answer - but I wonder what that flat rate should be - to make it acceptable to many eBay users? i.e. the Canadian Post office charges $5.00 / $5.50 for Customs Clearance. They also have low shipping fees. So, if you pay more shipping fees for UPS / FedEx, etc. - should we be paying $15.00 or $25.00, etc., for Customs Clearance?