eBay

kalvin@ebay.com · ‎09-26-2013

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here.

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

~Kalvin
eBay.ca Community Manager

kalvin@ebay.com

marnotom! · ‎03-10-2016

@ravingmadbrit wrote:

So 8 playing cards and 2 dice will cost £16.66 to ship

No they won't

GSP has all but killed overseas trade

Go ebay!

If only a REAL competior would arise

The unfortunate thing is that if there were no GSP, that seller would unlikely be willing to ship outside of the UK under their own steam.

A lot of GSP listings are from sellers who don't know or don't care that they're enrolled in the program.

marnotom! · ‎03-10-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:

It is unlikely that you will be able to track your item.

The GSP marketing promises international tracking but the program doesn't deliver. In my view, that is called false advertising but eBay seems to think that it's OK.

I know we've been through this before, but it bears repeating, I think. The fact that Pitney Bowes can track GSP items internally but buyers and sellers can't doesn't mean that the GSP's marketing of tracking is "false" advertising. It's misleading and straight out of the P.T. Barnum school of promotion, perhaps, but there's nothing inherently false about it.

The fact that references to buyer/seller-accessible online tracking information were removed from the GSP's terms and conditions suggests to me that Pitney Bowes and eBay are now fully aware that buyers and sellers can't track a shipment's progress online themselves.

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-10-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
@00nevermind00 wrote:

It is unlikely that you will be able to track your item.

The GSP marketing promises international tracking but the program doesn't deliver. In my view, that is called false advertising but eBay seems to think that it's OK.

I know we've been through this before, but it bears repeating, I think. The fact that Pitney Bowes can track GSP items internally but buyers and sellers can't doesn't mean that the GSP's marketing of tracking is "false" advertising. It's misleading and straight out of the P.T. Barnum school of promotion, perhaps, but there's nothing inherently false about it.

The fact that references to buyer/seller-accessible online tracking information were removed from the GSP's terms and conditions suggests to me that Pitney Bowes and eBay are now fully aware that buyers and sellers can't track a shipment's progress online themselves.

It may not be false 100% of the time but it is a false statement in many cases.

When you look at a gsp listing and click on Learn More, they are taken to a page with gsp info. http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/shipping-globally.html

This is what they state on that page.

Tracking

Once the seller has shipped your item, you receive an email letting you know that the item has shipped. The email includes a global tracking number which enables you to track your item as it travels from the shipping center to you.

The global tracking number can also be found in My eBay and on the Order details page.

The track your item link in purple goes to another page which states:

To see the shipping status of your item from My eBay:

Go to My eBay.
Click the Won link on the left side of the page.
Locate the item, and then click the tracking number link under the item title.
Note: Some sellers may also include tracking information in an email.

If clicking on that number does not enable the buyer to track their item 'as it travels from the shipping center to you' then they are not following through on what they have advertised.

It seems quite straight foward to me.

marnotom! · ‎03-10-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

It may not be false 100% of the time but it is a false statement in many cases.
When you look at a gsp listing and click on Learn More, they are taken to a page with gsp info. http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/shipping-globally.html
This is what they state on that page.
Tracking
Once the seller has shipped your item, you receive an email letting you know that the item has shipped. The email includes a global tracking number which enables you to track your item as it travels from the shipping center to you.
The global tracking number can also be found in My eBay and on the Order details page.
The track your item link in purple goes to another page which states:
To see the shipping status of your item from My eBay:
Go to My eBay.
Click the Won link on the left side of the page.
Locate the item, and then click the tracking number link under the item title.
Note: Some sellers may also include tracking information in an email.
If clicking on that number does not enable the buyer to track their item 'as it travels from the shipping center to you' then they are not following through on what they have advertised.
It seems quite straight foward to me.

Fair enough, but this is an eBay help page, not a Pitney Bowes GSP marketing page.

In addition, if you click the "track your item" hyperlink, the page you reach also contains the following information:

Depending on the shipping service, tracking information may be available. If the seller prints a shipping label using eBay or PayPal, you can see the tracking number as well as the shipping status of your item in My eBay.

Somebody given the responsibility for editing and updating the eBay help pages probably lazily figured that since Pitney Bowes doesn't print a shipping label using eBay or PayPal, that's a good enough excuse for the GSP tracking information to not be available online through My eBay and didn't follow through checking for other references in the help section.

This seems to be a discrepancy resulting from a lack of coordination between eBay and Pitney Bowes.

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-10-2016

Fair enough, but this is an eBay help page, not a Pitney Bowes GSP marketing page.

So what? The buyer is making the purchase on ebay and is going to trust that the information is correct. They certainly aren't going to cross reference the info between ebay and the gsp user agreement.

Depending on the shipping service, tracking information may be available. If the seller prints a shipping label using eBay or PayPal, you can see the tracking number as well as the shipping status of your item in My eBay.

Somebody given the responsibility for editing and updating the eBay help pages probably lazily figured that since Pitney Bowes doesn't print a shipping label using eBay or PayPal, that's a good enough excuse for the GSP tracking information to not be available online through My eBay and didn't follow through checking for other references in the help section.

_________

Seriously? I tend to believe that the original information on the help pages about how to track a gsp transaction is correct. That hyperlink is for tracking information in general and isn't specific to the gsp which is why it specifies how the label is printed. There are times when the PB tracking information is available in the buyer's purchase history so it has nothing to do with how and where they print their labels. You seem to be saying that the information is never available and that they don't promise that it will be. However, it IS available for some transactions but isn't consistent.

On the ebay global shipping user agreement it states-

By purchasing a GSP Item, you will be entering into a binding contract with the Seller for the purchase of the GSP Item, as well as an agreement with Pitney Bowes for the provision of the Services, including parcel processing, international shipping and tracking, and customs clearance.

So.....International tracking is mentioned on the listing page, on the global shipping help page and on the global shipping user agreement page but you are saying that they don't really mean that there is international tracking? As I said...it seems pretty straight forward to me. But regardless of what you or I think, I know that many many buyers are expecting international tracking and that when it is not easily available, they are upset. So either the promise needs to be followed through on or the promise removed all together.

marnotom! · ‎03-11-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Fair enough, but this is an eBay help page, not a Pitney Bowes GSP marketing page.

So what? The buyer is making the purchase on ebay and is going to trust that the information is correct. They certainly aren't going to cross reference the info between ebay and the gsp user agreement.

I didn't mention the GSP user agreement at all in that sentence that you quoted, so I'm not sure why you are bringing it up. At any rate, I think it's equally unlikely that a typical eBay Canada user will give much of a glance at either the related eBay help page or the GSP user agreement until they run into problems with the program.

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Depending on the shipping service, tracking information may be available. If the seller prints a shipping label using eBay or PayPal, you can see the tracking number as well as the shipping status of your item in My eBay.

Somebody given the responsibility for editing and updating the eBay help pages probably lazily figured that since Pitney Bowes doesn't print a shipping label using eBay or PayPal, that's a good enough excuse for the GSP tracking information to not be available online through My eBay and didn't follow through checking for other references in the help section.

Seriously? I tend to believe that the original information on the help pages about how to track a gsp transaction is correct. That hyperlink is for tracking information in general and isn't specific to the gsp which is why it specifies how the label is printed. There are times when the PB tracking information is available in the buyer's purchase history so it has nothing to do with how and where they print their labels. You seem to be saying that the information is never available and that they don't promise that it will be. However, it IS available for some transactions but isn't consistent.

I'm not saying the tracking information is never available with a GSP shipment. I'm saying that the conditions in which this information is available are stated in the help page. If it's available in other circumstances that involve the GSP or some other shipping method or shipping label service, that's gravy. The passage quoted, however, does not make specific mention of the GSP.

As for the help page information being correct, I would say that would be a reasonable expectation in most cases. However, the GSP is operated separately from eBay by a separate company and as a result eBay doesn't have the same sort of impetus to provide accurate and timely information on the service.

I also believe that most of the marketing of the GSP is either created in-house by Pitney Bowes or whoever it is who's contracted to work on PB's web presence. The GSP hype pages have design elements that look more like those of Pitney Bowes than they do eBay's.

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

On the ebay global shipping user agreement it states-

By purchasing a GSP Item, you will be entering into a binding contract with the Seller for the purchase of the GSP Item, as well as an agreement with Pitney Bowes for the provision of the Services, including parcel processing, international shipping and tracking, and customs clearance.

So.....International tracking is mentioned on the listing page, on the global shipping help page and on the global shipping user agreement page but you are saying that they don't really mean that there is international tracking? As I said...it seems pretty straight forward to me. But regardless of what you or I think, I know that many many buyers are expecting international tracking and that when it is not easily available, they are upset. So either the promise needs to be followed through on or the promise removed all together.

You're missing the subtle difference between "tracking" and "online viewable tracking". GSP shipments are tracked by Pitney Bowes, but the tracking information is not viewable online by the buyer or the seller.

Putting it a different way, when the GSP was first foisted upon eBayers, this paragraph appeared in the Buyer Terms and Conditions:

International shipping and tracking service. Pitney Bowes will arrange for the international shipment of your order from the U.S. Shipping Center by a third party shipping carrier (or carriers) to the delivery address designated by you. You and your Seller will be able to track the international shipment of your order from the United States to the designated delivery address within My eBay.

This paragraph no longer appears in the T&C. I don't see how this development could mean anything other than the fact that the "tracking" being referred to in the GSP hype is acknowledged to be generally inaccessible online to the buyer or seller.

Check the Internet Archive for yourself if you don't believe me.

00nevermind00 · ‎03-11-2016

You seem to "believe" a lot of things but beliefs are not evidence.

But in any event, whether or not the tracking is for buyers to use, a good number of them seem to think so and they are upset when they find out that the tracking number which they are given doesn't work. (And here's a question for you: why are buyers given a tracking number if not for tracking their package?)

The "includes international tracking" blurb (which appears not once, but twice on the listing page) is misleading. For that reason, as PJ rightfully said, either the tracking should be made to work for the buyer, or else the blurb should be removed from the listing.

Anything else is false advertising, since the listing page is basically an ad. It doesn't matter who is at fault or whether PB has subcontracted any portion of its GSP system to whoever.

marnotom! · ‎03-11-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:

You seem to "believe" a lot of things but beliefs are not evidence.

But in any event, whether or not the tracking is for buyers to use, a good number of them seem to think so and they are upset when they find out that the tracking number which they are given doesn't work. (And here's a question for you: why are buyers given a tracking number if not for tracking their package?)

The "includes international tracking" blurb (which appears not once, but twice on the listing page) is misleading. For that reason, as PJ rightfully said, either the tracking should be made to work for the buyer, or else the blurb should be removed from the listing.

Anything else is false advertising, since the listing page is basically an ad. It doesn't matter who is at fault or whether PB has subcontracted any portion of its GSP system to whoever.

If you go back to the response I made to you several posts back, you'll see that I agree that Pitney Bowes' marketing of the GSP's "tracking" feature is straight out of the P.J. Barnum School of Slick. It is misleading. However, it's not "false advertising" as you termed it. Anyone who tries to claim that it is doesn't have a leg to stand on.

It's sort of like having a slightly senile aunt who promises the childhood version of you a pair of Levis for your birthday. You get all excited expecting what the other kids have: a nice pair of blue jeans. Somehow auntie ends up giving you a pair of bright orange Levis instead. She gave you what she promised, but it's still not what you expected.

People's expectations that this tracking should work for them and be viewable online are based on "what the other kids have". From what I can see, there's nothing that Pitney Bowes has provided in the GSP hype or the Terms and Conditions page that promises on-line viewable tracking. The eBay help page information is the result of a half-donkeyed attempt to provide this information by someone completely unconnected to the program. It's a case of the left hand and the right hand not knowing what the other is doing.

Pitney Bowes currently is not promising a pair of blue jeans and I challenge anyone to show me where it is. I'll grant that eBay is promising a pair of blue jeans, however it replaces them with orange jeans at the checkout counter. (This is in reference to the two different eBay help pages giving different/non-existent information on the GSP's tracking feature.) I'm not condoning either party's actions here, only stating what I see based on what's presented by PB, eBay and in archived pages.

marnotom! · ‎03-11-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:

(And here's a question for you: why are buyers given a tracking number if not for tracking their package?)

Buyers can get tracking information for their GSP shipments. They just can't do it through "My eBay" is all.

Message 5 from this recently bumped-up thread reveals all:

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Buyer-Central/Can-t-really-track-global-shipping-program-Frustrated/m-p...

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-11-2016

You're missing the subtle difference between "tracking" and "online viewable tracking". GSP shipments are tracked by Pitney Bowes, but the tracking information is not viewable online by the buyer or the seller.

I'm not missing anything. You are putting your own spin on it. NO company is going to tell their buyers that tracking is available if that tracking is not easily available to the customer.

There is zero evidence that by International Tracking Provided that PB means that the buyer should go to their purchase history, write down the tracking number, somehow find a toll free phone number for the correct department in Pitney Bowes and call in every time that they want to see where their parcel is. Even if that was the intent for part of the time, there would be some sort of info about how to do that. I do believe that PB and ebay intend to provide online tracking. It is not smoke and mirrors at all...it is just another poorly implemented part of the program. You have posted some common sense responses to gsp posts in the past but imo, with this theory you are on thin ice.

---------------------------------

People's expectations that this tracking should work for them and be viewable online are based on "what the other kids have". From what I can see, there's nothing that Pitney Bowes has provided in the GSP hype or the Terms and Conditions page that promises on-line viewable tracking.

International tracking is promised, a tracking number is given so it is a reasonable expectation that the buyer will be able to do the tracking online. Expectations are really what matters in this situation. I consider myself reasonably smart and I would expect to be able to track my purchase online based on the information given. eBay knows that when they advertise that tracking is provided they do mean online tracking and buyers reasonably expect to have that. The buyers don't care who promises it or who provides it...they just want what they were promised.

You continually tell people that they have no right to expect online tracking based on the information that they have been given...obviously many many people believe just the opposite and I don't see any point of arguing about it. You don't have any black and white information showing in the listings or on help pages that the tracking number is intended to be used via phone yet there is information about clicking on the link to get the tracking info. Saying that the info probably shouldn't be there or is just poor communication isn't proving anything. It is just being argumentative.

marnotom! · ‎03-11-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

NO company is going to tell their buyers that tracking is available if that tracking is not easily available to the customer.

Then explain why the GSP terms and conditions no longer contain a reference to online viewable tracking through "My eBay".

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

There is zero evidence that by International Tracking Provided that PB means that the buyer should go to their purchase history, write down the tracking number, somehow find a toll free phone number for the correct department in Pitney Bowes and call in every time that they want to see where their parcel is. Even if that was the intent for part of the time, there would be some sort of info about how to do that. I do believe that PB and ebay intend to provide online tracking. It is not smoke and mirrors at all...it is just another poorly implemented part of the program. You have posted some common sense responses to gsp posts in the past but imo, with this theory you are on thin ice.

You're expecting blue jeans when Pitney Bowes is only able to offer orange jeans. Think about it. Apart from the badly constructed help pages, where is it mentioned that the "tracking" on a GSP shipment is online viewable through "My eBay"?

This is a logical reading of the information that Pitney Bowes provides on the GSP. I'm reading this information at face value. I'm not trying to "interpret" it or find anything in those words that's not there. If anything, this approach is more "common sense" than the alternative.

Again, this isn't a defence of the GSP's practices but a demonstration of how sneaky and slippery the wording in its various online documents can be. Your beef isn't with me, it's with Pitney Bowes and eBay.

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

International tracking is promised, a tracking number is given so it is a reasonable expectation that the buyer will be able to do the tracking online. Expectations are really what matters in this situation. I consider myself reasonably smart and I would expect to be able to track my purchase online based on the information given. eBay knows that when they advertise that tracking is provided they do mean online tracking and buyers reasonably expect to have that. The buyers don't care who promises it or who provides it...they just want what they were promised.

These buyers (and sellers) are getting orange jeans thinking that Auntie eBay has promised them blue ones because that's what is "usually" expected. There's no wording in the GSP terms or on listing pages that explicitly states that the program's tracking information is online viewable through my eBay. If buyers have different expectations based on past experiences or what have you, so be it, but the wording used by the GSP in listing pages and the T&C shouldn't and doesn't feed those expectations. At all.

Again, explain to me why the paragraph in the GSP T&C on online viewable tracking through "My eBay" has been eliminated if the program promises this.

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

You continually tell people that they have no right to expect online tracking based on the information that they have been given...obviously many many people believe just the opposite and I don't see any point of arguing about it. You don't have any black and white information showing in the listings or on help pages that the tracking number is intended to be used via phone yet there is information about clicking on the link to get the tracking info. Saying that the info probably shouldn't be there or is just poor communication isn't proving anything. It is just being argumentative.

I'm not saying that people have "no right to expect online tracking", only that they're making a serious leap in logic by doing so based on the information presented on listing pages and the terms and conditions.

And, no, I don't have "black and white information...stating that the tracking number is intended to be used via phone" but you don't have anything comparable for your view, either, except for a pair of wonkily assembled and linked help pages.

marnotom! · ‎03-12-2016

Here are a few more thoughts before I leave town for an extended weekend and leave my laptop at home.

There are other instances where the GSP confounds conventional expectations, either through buyer-unfriendly procedures or through verbal sleight of hand.

The confusion over what "priority" means in the context of the GSP is one of these instances. We have buyers posting thinking it means "faster service" (Faster than what?) or that the GSP uses USPS's Priority International to ship items.

Another example is the term "import charges" which some buyers take to mean any number of things, in particular a "bogus" set of charges that Pitney Bowes keeps to itself.

The procedure to obtain a refund for an item not forwarded from Kentucky by the Global Shipping Center is confusing, to say the least. One would think that a full refund should be automatically forthcoming to the buyer in cases such as this, but nooo. The buyer has to make a claim, and to be honest I'm still not clear whether a conventional eBay/PayPal claim will do the trick provided that somewhere on the claim it's noted that the item was to be forwarded through the GSP and that its program fees need to be reversed as well as the charges exacted by the seller. In any event, buyers receive no guidance the procedure for an undeliverable GSP item from either eBay or Pitney Bowes.

As for the eBay so-called "help pages"? They're not maintained by Pitney Bowes, they're out of date, and they don't even provide information on how GSP tracking actually works if and when it does work properly. So much for "help".

This isn't a case of Pitney Bowes promising something it doesn't deliver. This is yet another case of Pitney Bowes sneakily wording things to take advantage of buyers' preconceived notions of how things "should" work. These notions aren't based on the wording PB actually uses. At all.

pocomocomputing · ‎03-12-2016

Why do you insist on carrying a great debate on the GSP with anyone who posts on this topic? You treat it as a PHD thesis and go on and on speculating how and why things are done. It is so tiresome to anyone reading this topic. You treat it as your sole mission in life. It is not needed not wanted in this topic by anyone.

Just correct the poor users who have used it and complain about it incorrectly. Write a short canned blurb, save it to a forum macro and post it when needed. That is it. No more debating and pointless speculating. Who cares other than you that a paragraph is missing?

Do you fellow forum members a favor and post less on this. You are so tiring on this issue. More than one member has posted about your attitude in this topic.

marnotom! · ‎03-12-2016

If I could go back and consolidate my posts into a single, more succinct one after new ideas come to me, I would, but the discussion boards don't work that way.

marnotom! · ‎03-12-2016

Besides, if you read the last post or two, you'll find that they're in a somewhat different vein from ones I appear to be notorious for writing.

Any criticisms against me personally (as opposed to my ideas) are better accomplished in PMs.

00nevermind00 · ‎03-12-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
I'm not saying that people have "no right to expect online tracking", only that they're making a serious leap in logic by doing so based on the information presented on listing pages and the terms and conditions.

So we're not supposed to believe listing pages? Why have listings at all then?

I guess that a buyer who purchases a GSP item but has to pay customs charges again upon arrival (it happens due to seller mistakes) should just tell themselves, "oh yeah, the listing said 'no additional custom charges at delivery' but that doesn't really mean that I won't have to pay again".

Come on! Part of me thinks that you don't even believe what you are writing and that you're debating simply for the sake of debating.

And to use your analogy, if those buyers who receive blue jeans are upset because they were expecting orange jeans, they have every right to be if the listing page said "orange jeans". That is a SNAD case and they can get their money back.

I think that PJ is correct: buyers should be able to track their packages but this is yet another poorly designed feature of the GSP. There's not exactly a shortage of them...

marnotom! · ‎03-12-2016

I don't disagree that buyers should be able to track their packages, but where in a listing page does Pitney Bowes promise that the tracking information is of the online viewable variety?

The rest of your post doesn't seem related to what I've been posting. My analogy isn't about eBay sales, for example.

3islanders · ‎03-12-2016

@marnotom! wrote:

As far as I know, it's not so much that sellers aren't allowed to change the listing as much as it's a matter of them not being able to change the listing after the GSP has been applied to it. The seller would have to cancel the listing and relist the item without the GSP attached to it. Some sellers may think that their inability to change a GSP listing has more sinister implications, but it doesn't.

Having said that, this may be Darwin in action, eBay-style. Do you really want to buy from a seller who can't figure out how to ship internationally properly?

Indeed. I've messaged a couple of sellers just recently to ask if they would ship outside of GSP, and one responded that s/he had no idea how to ship internationally. ...whaaatt....???? I have shipped quite a few packages outside of Canada, and I really can't believe the U.S. postal system is that different from ours, that taking a package to the post office for international shipping requires some kind of esoteric higher level of knowledge....

I have also had a seller change his listing to add a Canadian option that wasn't GSP, and although the actual postage ended up costing almost as much, the GSP nonsense was eliminated. So they CAN do it, if they want the sale and are willing to make a little effort.

Next complaint about GSP: I have items in my watch list; some have the shipping to Canada listed while others say "calculate". I click on the "calculate" link and get another window with shipping of about $9-something. For priority mail. I think "wow, that sounds good..." I go back to the listing page, and the shipping there is $18 with GSP and import charges. So you can't even get a consistent shipping estimate! And sellers probably don't know about this either; I asked one for a shipping quote and s/he had no idea eBay was doing that.

With so, SOOOO many complaints, why hasn't anything changed, or someone started an e-mail campaign or a petition or something?

...not that I believe it would help....

(It's probably better for my budget anyway; I've passed up SO many items in the collector's line I like, because they were GSP. I prefer to buy through collectors' forums instead.)

chimera148 · ‎03-12-2016

From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scam

dmil8030 · ‎03-13-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
@pjcdn2005 wrote:

NO company is going to tell their buyers that tracking is available if that tracking is not easily available to the customer.
Then explain why the GSP terms and conditions no longer contain a reference to online viewable tracking through "My eBay".

where is it mentioned that the "tracking" on a GSP shipment is online viewable through "My eBay"?

There's no wording in the GSP terms or on listing pages that explicitly states that the program's tracking information is online viewable through my eBay. If buyers have different expectations based on past experiences or what have you, so be it, but the wording used by the GSP in listing pages and the T&C shouldn't and doesn't feed those expectations. At all.

Again, explain to me why the paragraph in the GSP T&C on online viewable tracking through "My eBay" has been eliminated if the program promises this.

Valiant effort as usual, marnotom. One small correction if I may, -- The GSP does continue to state that tracking will be

available from My eBay, as evidenced when buyers see the initial enticement on the listing stating that,

This item will be shipped through the Global Shipping Program and includes international tracking, and upon clicking the

Learn more - Tracking option, are told clearly and unequivocally that in addition to receiving "a global tracking number which

enables you to track your item as it travels from the shipping center to you", buyers are further assured that:

The global tracking number can also be found in My eBay and on the Order details page.

Seems rather incontrovertible to me.