eBay

kalvin@ebay.com · ‎09-26-2013

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here.

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

~Kalvin
eBay.ca Community Manager

kalvin@ebay.com

i*m-still-here · ‎02-27-2014

@marnotom! wrote:
@i*m-still-here wrote:
@marnotom! wrote:
@i*m-still-here wrote:

marmo: It's not about what you buy via the GSP.

Understanding the system is about what you DON'T buy via the GSP.

Says who? Can't it be about both?
NO! It is not and it cannot be about both IF you are a regular buyer here.

Because ... ?

marmo: I have explained this to you over and over and over as have others.

Just go back and read what I told you last time you asked.

kxeron · ‎02-27-2014

@i*m-still-here wrote:

@marnotom! wrote:
@i*m-still-here wrote:
@marnotom! wrote:
@i*m-still-here wrote:

marmo: It's not about what you buy via the GSP.

Understanding the system is about what you DON'T buy via the GSP.

Says who? Can't it be about both?
NO! It is not and it cannot be about both IF you are a regular buyer here.

Because ... ?

marmo: I have explained this to you over and over and over as have others.

Just go back and read what I told you last time you asked.

I am not a moderator, so I don't hold power here, but I respectfully as a civil individual ask both of you (unfortunately I can't respond to multiple people at once in the "reply to" line..) to stop this immediately. Your bickering messages are detracting from the real conversation and contain no content worth adding to any conversation whatsoever.

Next one to respond, please ask yourself for the sake of the community "Does this message have any information that would be useful for the entire community?"

Thank You and Good Day.

marnotom! · ‎02-27-2014

@rick31797 wrote:

One sale i would not think would qualify you as am expert buyer using GSP..I am sure there are sales everyday that turn out fine..Its all the bad sales that are concerning people.. and there seem to be alot..

<snip>

Question.......

If you continue to buy using the GSP, and say you get an item that has been damage or you don't get the item at all, will you continue to use the GSP...........as if this happens, maybe you just got unlucky .

I wasn't trying to suggest that I am now an "expert" in using the GSP. I'm just suggesting that a bit of homework and research probably helped with my first purchase through the GSP being successful.

Question for you: Have you being using the eBay discussion boards (on .com as well as .ca) to get a sense of when the GSP might work best and when it might not? I get the sense that while there's certainly an awful lot of venting about it, very few people posting about the GSP want to really understand the enemy and get a sense of why it works the way that it does with the possibility of using it to its best advantage.

It's fine to mistrust the GSP. I still have misgivings about it, myself. It just drives me spare when this mistrust becomes irrational, however.

To answer your question in a slightly roundabout fashion, I've found myself sometimes reading posts on the .com boards from sellers who have had dozens if not hundreds of successful international sales. One--for whatever reason--goes south. As a result of this one bad sale, they declare that they're going to give up shipping internationally.

Does this sound like a rational approach to risk management?

Does this sound like the seller is now going to have problem after problem and lose money hand over fist with their international sales or that this was simply an aberration?

If I had one GSP purchase that didn't work out, I'd have to ask myself similar questions. However, I probably wouldn't give up making GSP purchases based on a single bad experience if I had others that went well.

For what it's worth, an hour after purchasing my phone, I ordered a protective case for it from another seller who supposedly ships directly to their Canadian buyers. This seller is in California. I'm in British Columbia. This seller is a lot closer to me than the Smartphone seller in Florida.

I haven't seen the case yet and it's been over three weeks since I purchased it.

i*m-still-here · ‎02-27-2014

kxeron:

Buyers come here to vent.

That is the real conversation.

Every now and then a new buyer pops in when there's a spurt of adrenaline driven anger at the GSP and then leaves almost as quickly.

There are no solutions or answers for anyone.

The best posters can do is offer support, and most of the time that means simply allowing buyers to vent.

Everything has been said before and the fact is that nothing adds anything to the discussion.

That ship has sailed a long time ago.

Some posters may think they are adding to thread but it's all been said many times before.

davesplace89 · ‎02-27-2014

Your numbers do not add up if you look at any GSP item that sells for 134.00 is over 20.00 in import charges but you say you only paid 11. and change some thing wrong her. Maybe you are lucky .

marnotom! · ‎02-27-2014

@davesplace89 wrote:

Your numbers do not add up if you look at any GSP item that sells for 134.00 is over 20.00 in import charges but you say you only paid 11. and change some thing wrong her. Maybe you are lucky .

Depends on where you are. What seems to have happened here--and what seems to be the case with all GSP listings I've scrutinized--is that shipments to BC are only charged GST, just like in Alberta. PST isn't part of the equation at all.

Perhaps eBay is not considered to be "targeting sales from British Columbia", an idea suggested in this online article:

http://sbinfocanada.about.com/od/pst/a/BC-PST.htm

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-27-2014

@marnotom! wrote:
@davesplace89 wrote:

Your numbers do not add up if you look at any GSP item that sells for 134.00 is over 20.00 in import charges but you say you only paid 11. and change some thing wrong her. Maybe you are lucky .

Depends on where you are. What seems to have happened here--and what seems to be the case with all GSP listings I've scrutinized--is that shipments to BC are only charged GST, just like in Alberta. PST isn't part of the equation at all.

Perhaps eBay is not considered to be "targeting sales from British Columbia", an idea suggested in this online article:

http://sbinfocanada.about.com/od/pst/a/BC-PST.htm

I've checked a couple of different items with different postal codes and the rate was the same for all non hst provinces.

ragsn_old_iron · ‎02-27-2014

There is a significant problem with the Global Shipping Program in my opinion now that I have used it as a buyer. I am extremely familiar with shipping services and I feel that the GSP program is defrauding buyers of the service they have paid for in the context of the shipping method paid for with the seller. In practice my experience has been that Pitney Bowes and their representative in Canada is significantly downgrading the shipping service while taking a portion of the profit of the premium services the customer has paid for.

This scenario is neither the fault of the seller, nor is it the responsibility of the delivery agent that is ultimately contracted for final delivery, however the third party is denying the customer the service they have paid for which I believe is fraudulent. If I pay for a Priority shipping rate with signature required (expectation of seller too) from USA for example to a PayPal verified address in Canada, the product should not be re-labeled in Etobicoke Ontario as Expedited shipping with no signature required. On top of this change in service, the fact that one pays either their HST/PST/GST in the foreign currency is further insult to the taxpayers of Canada since the respective governments will not be receiving the premium on the exchange of currency.

eBay must make a greater effort to inform sellers that they have they option to not participate the GSP program in their template settings or foreign sellers are going to be receiving a negative feedback and/or limiting the potential selling market which in both cases will impact overall revenue for eBay and its affiliates. In its current implementation I believe that GSP program is committing acts of fraud through a third party, and is negatively impacting honest sellers who have built their feedback on directly dealing with sellers and resolving any issues or concerns themselves; the third party in Etobicoke is abusing the sellers and buyers by changing the agreed services to a lesser standard and significantly delaying delivery of items.

roadrunners123 · ‎02-27-2014

Okay so I talked to a seller in the states who is using the GSP, he explained to me that he had no idea how much GSP was charging his International buyers, as he was unable to see the charges on his end. Also he did not know about the fifty dollar or less rule. The GSP program was charging $11.99 for shipping for a $7.00 dollar item. I explained to him that it costs me $3.79 American to ship the same item to him. So maybe to stop all the negative comments on this thread, Ebay should revamp there educational platform on GSP, by making easier to understand, and a straight forward approach to going about this. He replied back to me that he now understands why international rarely buy from him.

marnotom! · ‎02-27-2014

@ragsn_old_iron wrote:
     There is a significant problem with the Global Shipping Program in my opinion now that I have used it as a buyer. I am extremely familiar with shipping services and I feel that the GSP program is defrauding buyers of the service they have paid for in the context of the shipping method paid for with the seller. In practice my experience has been that Pitney Bowes and their representative in Canada is significantly downgrading the shipping service while taking a portion of the profit of the premium services the customer has paid for.
     This scenario is neither the fault of the seller, nor is it the responsibility of the delivery agent that is ultimately contracted for final delivery, however the third party is denying the customer the service they have paid for which I believe is fraudulent. If I pay for a Priority shipping rate with signature required (expectation of seller too) from USA for example to a PayPal verified address in Canada, the product should not be re-labeled in Etobicoke Ontario as Expedited shipping with no signature required. On top of this change in service, the fact that one pays either their HST/PST/GST in the foreign currency is further insult to the taxpayers of Canada since the respective governments will not be receiving the premium on the exchange of currency.
     eBay must make a greater effort to inform sellers that they have they option to not participate the GSP program in their template settings or foreign sellers are going to be receiving a negative feedback and/or limiting the potential selling market which in both cases will impact overall revenue for eBay and its affiliates. In its current implementation I believe that GSP program is committing acts of fraud through a third party, and is negatively impacting honest sellers who have built their feedback on directly dealing with sellers and resolving any issues or concerns themselves; the third party in Etobicoke is abusing the sellers and buyers by changing the agreed services to a lesser standard and significantly delaying delivery of items.

I'm not following you here. The shipping method the GSP claims to offer is "International Priority Shipping" which is a generic, catch-all term to describe what is believed to be a freight forwarding service. It's a pretty meaningless term, in my opinion, as we have no sense of over what this shipping method has priority. It's also not to be confused with the USPS "Priority Mail International" service.

I don't see how we can really say there's a "downgrade" of this shipping service when the shipping method isn't really defined in the GSP terms and conditions. The GSP isn't a mailing service. It may employ the mail service to get the item to its final destination, but it's simply a network of contracted carriers of several different stripes.

walker0017 · ‎02-27-2014

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

marnotom! wrote:

I'm not following you here. The shipping method the GSP claims to offer is "International Priority Shipping" which is a generic, catch-all term to describe what is believed to be a freight forwarding service. It's a pretty meaningless term, in my opinion, as we have no sense of over what this shipping method has priority. It's also not to be confused with the USPS "Priority Mail International" service.

I don't see how we can really say there's a "downgrade" of this shipping service when the shipping method isn't really defined in the GSP terms and conditions. The GSP isn't a mailing service. It may employ the mail service to get the item to its final destination, but it's simply a network of contracted carriers of several different stripes

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think I understand what ragsn_old_iron is getting at, if a buyer selects a more expensive shipping method that involves say tracking and a signature required and the GSP is involved on top of that and the seller ships the item out with those conditions then eBay/PBI logically should be legally obligated to get it to you under the same conditions since you paid for that. To substitute a cheaper method of delivery or calling it a freight forwarding service without the conditions that you as the buyer paid for it could be argued that eBay/PBI are defrauding you of the difference in shipping costs.

Lets not forget the shipping costs showing before the GSP cost is calculated from the sellers location to the buyers location even though the buyer only sends it to Kentucky for processing. Unfortunately because of the wording of the GSP T&C eBay/PBI in their narrow view think they can "legally " defraud buyers of this higher premium in the US, but I am willing to bet that it would not stand up in any court here in Canada under the consumer protection act. This is why all the real professional e-commerce sites like Amazon will ship the item exactly as you paid for with no funny word games.

I know it sounds like I am accusing them of fraud but really all I am doing is stating the obvious.

7claude · ‎02-27-2014

Not sure this system works so well, Ordered an Item Feb 09, 2014, the seller shipped the item the next day to Kentuky with UPS, Item arrived on Feb 12, 2014 at 9:22 am was signed by Caudill at the dock and that's it from there it vanished.

Contacted Pitney Bowes which runs the GSP and gave them the item # and all the information and they told me they never received the item, even with UPS confirming they delivered it.

I feel sorry for the seller but I need to get Paypal involved to get my money back since Pitney Bowes won't confess to the mistake of losing the item, I will be very careful in the future to never use this system again, if you see separate shipping and duty charges stay away like the plague you may never get you're item.

buttonsjeanmarie · ‎02-27-2014

My experience was the same as yours. I refuse to ever purchase anything with the GSP.

marnotom! · ‎02-28-2014

@walker0017 wrote:

I think I understand what ragsn_old_iron is getting at, if a buyer selects a more expensive shipping method that involves say tracking and a signature required and the GSP is involved on top of that and the seller ships the item out with those conditions then eBay/PBI logically should be legally obligated to get it to you under the same conditions since you paid for that. To substitute a cheaper method of delivery or calling it a freight forwarding service without the conditions that you as the buyer paid for it could be argued that eBay/PBI are defrauding you of the difference in shipping costs.
Lets not forget the shipping costs showing before the GSP cost is calculated from the sellers location to the buyers location even though the buyer only sends it to Kentucky for processing. Unfortunately because of the wording of the GSP T&C eBay/PBI in their narrow view think they can "legally " defraud buyers of this higher premium in the US, but I am willing to bet that it would not stand up in any court here in Canada under the consumer protection act. This is why all the real professional e-commerce sites like Amazon will ship the item exactly as you paid for with no funny word games.
I know it sounds like I am accusing them of fraud but really all I am doing is stating the obvious.

I don't see anything in the Global Shipping Program terms and conditions for buyers that states or implies that the buyer is getting any sort of premium service. (I don't see any mention of signature confirmation, either.)

International shipping and tracking service. Pitney Bowes will arrange for the international shipment of your order from the U.S. Shipping Center by a third party shipping carrier (or carriers) to the delivery address designated by you. You and your Seller will be able to track the international shipment of your order from the United States to the designated delivery address within My eBay.

The tracking information hasn't been shown to be 100% reliable, of course, but then, neither is the eDELCON service for USPS's First Class International. Apart from that, I really can't wrap my head around the rest of ragsn's or your concerns. What have you seen in the T&C that I've missed?

walker0017 · ‎02-28-2014

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

marnotom! wrote:

I don't see anything in the Global Shipping Program terms and conditions for buyers that states or implies that the buyer is getting any sort of premium service. (I don't see any mention of signature confirmation, either.)

International shipping and tracking service. Pitney Bowes will arrange for the international shipment of your order from the U.S. Shipping Center by a third party shipping carrier (or carriers) to the delivery address designated by you. You and your Seller will be able to track the international shipment of your order from the United States to the designated delivery address within My eBay.

The tracking information hasn't been shown to be 100% reliable, of course, but then, neither is the eDELCON service for USPS's First Class International. Apart from that, I really can't wrap my head around the rest of ragsn's or your concerns. What have you seen in the T&C that I've missed?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is what I think he is trying to say, the more expensive shipping service with tracking and signature verification is selected at the seller level by the buyer to start the completion of the sale before the GSP gets its sticky fingers in there, and is based upon the distance from the sellers address to the buyers address. Of course it is not mentioned in the GSP T&C because that is how they can switch to a low cost bulk shipper because they (eBay/PBI) do not offer it as part of the GSP. The loophole is that the seller mails the package with the higher buyer selected rate to Kentucky because they are on the GSP program and everything shall be mailed to there, once it gets to the warehouse it is now on whatever shipping system PBI uses not the one the buyer and seller agreed upon so now it goes slower and no signature verification. The problem is that because it is not mentioned in the T&C they do not have to ship it out under the same conditions since by using the system you are automatically agreeing with their terms and as long as they do not mention it in their T&C no one can really do anything about it. So it's not what you missed, as it was never there to be missed in the first place, that is the problem.

Only with eBay and their GSP is there shipping issues, all the other real e-commerce sites work fine for shipping, I know I use them all the time with no hassles.

afantiques · ‎02-28-2014

the more expensive shipping service with tracking and signature verification is selected at the seller level by the buyer to start the completion of the sale before the GSP gets its sticky fingers in there, and is based upon the distance from the sellers address to the buyers address

The only shipping option the seller has is how they ship the item to Kentucky. After that it is generic shipping by various carriers, and can be faster than postal methods as customs clearance is usually more or less immediate.

Nobody is offered one thing and given another. What is being supplied is the equivalent of fast courier service for the international leg of the journey,and can be very effective, although the complexity does seem to lead to a fair number of reports of delays.

In theory the scheme should give shipping that is faster than postal services, but in practice seems to be erratic in performance. Some of this must be caused by sellers not providing the information the system needs to work properly. I have no idea how the international shipping cost can be calculated if the seller does not provide all the information they would need to provide for calculated shipping, which they may omit if they use 'free'; shipping or flat rate shipping. Omitting information for preparing the customs documentation is another reason stuff may be delayed.

I am not defending this ill conceived and woefully applied program, but many objections are based on profound misunderstanding of how it works, and how very different it is from postal delivery.

arlene_v · ‎02-28-2014

@marnotom! wrote:

The shipping method the GSP claims to offer is "International Priority Shipping" which is a generic, catch-all term to describe what is believed to be a freight forwarding service. It's a pretty meaningless term, in my opinion, as we have no sense of over what this shipping method has priority. It's also not to be confused with the USPS "Priority Mail International" service.

Agree, and that is why Ebay/PB should call it something else.

Whose fault is it that folks are thinking this is a "Priority" shipping service akin to USPS Priority Mail, when the terminology is being used,and is placed front and centre in the listing as if it were something very special indeed?

It follows that buyers are going to see the inflated shipping costs, look at the word "Priority" and reach a conclusion about faster shipping time.

So, no surprise they feel a tad annoyed when these expectations are not met.

How about "International shipping with tracking"?

Yes, it's true that people don't understand the way this program works, but I find it disingenuous to suggest that Pitney Bowes is not playing word games here .... if the term is meaningless, use words with less " implied meaning"

00nevermind00 · ‎02-28-2014

@afantiques wrote:

I am not defending this ill conceived and woefully applied program, but many objections are based on profound misunderstanding of how it works, and how very different it is from postal delivery.

It probably wouldn't be so misunderstood if eBay/PB had made even the most basic attempt at explaining it clearly.

And I'm not talking about links to the Terms & Conditions, the reading of which is about as appealing as dental surgery.

afantiques · ‎02-28-2014

I'd not argue with that.

kxeron · ‎02-28-2014

@marnotom! wrote:
@walker0017 wrote:

I think I understand what ragsn_old_iron is getting at, if a buyer selects a more expensive shipping method that involves say tracking and a signature required and the GSP is involved on top of that and the seller ships the item out with those conditions then eBay/PBI logically should be legally obligated to get it to you under the same conditions since you paid for that. To substitute a cheaper method of delivery or calling it a freight forwarding service without the conditions that you as the buyer paid for it could be argued that eBay/PBI are defrauding you of the difference in shipping costs.
Lets not forget the shipping costs showing before the GSP cost is calculated from the sellers location to the buyers location even though the buyer only sends it to Kentucky for processing. Unfortunately because of the wording of the GSP T&C eBay/PBI in their narrow view think they can "legally " defraud buyers of this higher premium in the US, but I am willing to bet that it would not stand up in any court here in Canada under the consumer protection act. This is why all the real professional e-commerce sites like Amazon will ship the item exactly as you paid for with no funny word games.
I know it sounds like I am accusing them of fraud but really all I am doing is stating the obvious.

I don't see anything in the Global Shipping Program terms and conditions for buyers that states or implies that the buyer is getting any sort of premium service. (I don't see any mention of signature confirmation, either.)

International shipping and tracking service. Pitney Bowes will arrange for the international shipment of your order from the U.S. Shipping Center by a third party shipping carrier (or carriers) to the delivery address designated by you. You and your Seller will be able to track the international shipment of your order from the United States to the designated delivery address within My eBay.

The tracking information hasn't been shown to be 100% reliable, of course, but then, neither is the eDELCON service for USPS's First Class International. Apart from that, I really can't wrap my head around the rest of ragsn's or your concerns. What have you seen in the T&C that I've missed?

To summarize and simplify:

If the seller and buyer agree to say have the package overnighted, it will be overnighted to the Kentucky shipping centre indeed, but then through those very terms you highlighted, they can "arrange" their own shipping procedures, including using bulk freight (waiting until they have a full palett), which can slow down the overnighted delivery to upwards of a week or two. Thus contract notwithstanding eBay can be seen as committing shipping fraud (through false advertising) in offering alternate shipping methods on its website, but unable to make its contractors (PBI et al) adhere to those advertised methods.

If the GSP cannot successfully overnight a package when it is agreed upon, the eBay website should not allow alternate shipping methods to be used to speed up, or cheapen the delivery on GSP items and should only allow shipping to Kentucky as fast as they themselves can ensure a package is shipped from there.