Fraud: Tracking Number Issued, Item Not Shipped

[bonafide_bidder]

I ordered an item from a Chinese based seller who advertised items are shipped within one business day. The tracking number was issued on December 8, 2020. After a few days, I noticed the item had not shipped and sent the seller a message asking when it would be shipped but I didn not receive a replay. As of today, December 17, 2020, the item has not shipped which was confirmed by an eBay representative. The order cannot be cancelled and I have to wait until January 12, 2021 to file a request for reimbursement even though eBay knows the item hasn't shipped in accordance with the seller's own shipping policy (within 1 business day). Even though I have been a very long term eBay member ,and this is the first time I have had this problem of an item not being shipped, I am very disappointed in eBay for allowing sellers to issue a tracking number to lock in the sale and prevent buyers from being able to cancel the sale when the item is not shipped within a reasonable period from when the order was made and paid for.

The current eBay policy of requiring the buyer to wait until the latest delivery date has passed to file a reimbursement request is unacceptable, it encourages fraud. Instead, the sale should be cancelled within a reasonable period after the purchase is made, even when a tracking number is issued, if the item is not shipped in compliance with the seller's handling and shipping policy or a time period limit imposed by eBay. Doing that would prevent fraud by sellers issuing a tracking number but not shipping the purchased item(s). 

[esclyons]

try going through paypal, they allow you to open a case earlier..

[bonafide_bidder]

This is the policy that eBay should have: https://help.5miles.com/hc/en-us/articles/235029448-What-can-I-do-if-the-seller-does-not-ship-the-it...

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@bonafide_bidder wrote:

I ordered an item from a Chinese based seller who advertised items are shipped within one business day. The tracking number was issued on December 8, 2020. After a few days, I noticed the item had not shipped and sent the seller a message asking when it would be shipped but I didn not receive a replay. As of today, December 17, 2020, the item has not shipped which was confirmed by an eBay representative. The order cannot be cancelled and I have to wait until January 12, 2021 to file a request for reimbursement even though eBay knows the item hasn't shipped in accordance with the seller's own shipping policy (within 1 business day). Even though I have been a very long term eBay member ,and this is the first time I have had this problem of an item not being shipped, I am very disappointed in eBay for allowing sellers to issue a tracking number to lock in the sale and prevent buyers from being able to cancel the sale when the item is not shipped within a reasonable period from when the order was made and paid for.

The current eBay policy of requiring the buyer to wait until the latest delivery date has passed to file a reimbursement request is unacceptable, it encourages fraud. Instead, the sale should be cancelled within a reasonable period after the purchase is made, even when a tracking number is issued, if the item is not shipped in compliance with the seller's handling and shipping policy or a time period limit imposed by eBay. Doing that would prevent fraud by sellers issuing a tracking number but not shipping the purchased item(s). 

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Try giving this link a shot to see if you can get further updates. Tracking can be spotty with shipments from China. Many parcels were/have been held up because of various shut downs, lack of flights and customs backlogs during Covid.

https://parcelsapp.com/en/carriers/china-post

-Lotz

[femmefan1946]

Tracking is a Seller Protection, and does little for the buyer.

The Buyer's Protection is the Money Back Guarantee.

If the purchase does not arrive by the last estimated date eBay gave you for delivery, you can open a Dispute in the Resolution Centre at the bottom of this page and you will be refunded.

If the item arrives after that, you have an ethical dilemma.

But tracking does not move the purchase any faster or protect it from rough handling. 
Tracking is also susceptible to fat fingered typos, where postal clerks mistakenly indicate that the shipment has been received and shipped, when it is still waiting to be picked up, or is still in Kowloon when it is on a ship to Vancouver, or has left Vancouver for Toronto. And all the while the actual parcel is in a truck passing through Rogers Pass on its way to Edmonton.  Human error.

The important information is that if you have not received the purchase by January 12, you can be refunded.

Mark your calendar.

The current eBay policy of requiring the buyer to wait until the latest delivery date has passed to file a reimbursement request is unacceptable, it encourages fraud.

Why?

Until we all get instantaneous teleporters, it is going to take time for anything to get from Point A to Point B.

If it is important to receive the item by a certain date, don't buy it from a seller who tells you it might not arrive until after than date.

It may cost more to buy from a seller who uses a faster shipping service, or , heaven forfend, buy it in a local shop.

the sale should be cancelled within a reasonable period after the purchase is made, even when a tracking number is issued, if the item is not shipped in compliance with the seller's handling and shipping policy or a time period limit imposed by eBay.

Now there's a fraud waiting to happen, with the fraud on the buyer's side.

Cancel a shipped order and get both the refund and the item.

And the seller would have no way to recover either his item or the refunded payment.

[marnotom!]

Great post, @femmefan1946. 

A lack of tracking information doesn't necessarily mean that an item hasn't shipped or moved.  Glitches happen.  Tracking's importance to buyers has been greatly exaggerated; we've been brainwashed into thinking that is really that useful to them.  Buyers are given estimated delivery times for a reason and that's what they should be focussing on.  Knowing that their item is languishing in Shanghai or Kowloon or misdirected to Nunavut doesn't really change anything for the buyer if the item is within the delivery timeframe.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

As an alternate perspective....

If buyers can't go by the posted tracking they have received from a seller why should sellers have to live or die by the suggested tentative shipping windows eBay provides?

Sellers have ZERO control of a package once they drop it off in either a mail box or at postal depot.

-Lotz

[marnotom!]

That perspective is so alternate that I really don't understand what it has to do with the subject at hand.  Sorry.

[pjcdn2005]

When a seller prints a label for an order ebay automatically marks that item as having being shipped.  So for their purposes it’s been shipped.

Its possible that:

-It hasn’t been shipped

-The tracking number is for internal use and does not show online

-The carrier just hasn’t scanned it yet...apparently that is happening a lot in the US right now, I don’t know if it is common in China 

-eBay doesn’t support that carriers tracking system.(have you tried to track it elsewhere?)

-Asian sellers sometimes use a type of forwarder...they send their overseas mail to one location and the forwarder ships it in bulk.  It’s possible it has left the sellers hands and is in a warehouse waiting to be shipped and scanned

I realize how frustrating these types of situations are and that being told that tracking shouldn’t matter to buyers doesnt help.  I really have no idea what is actually happening in your situation but it is possible that the item is on its way even if tracking doesn’t reflect that 

That travpcking number might be for internal use onky in which case Q

[femmefan1946]

@pjcdn2005 -- Looks like you are having the same proofreading problems I did the other day.

Remember the sherry is for Santa!

[pjcdn2005]

I think my problem is a lack of proofreading lol

[bonafide_bidder]

Your answer to my post is full of excuses in favour of fraud. If the seller states they will ship within a specific period and they don't then eBay should automatically cancel the purchase and refund the buyer. That would stop sellers from abusing and defrauding buyers and put an end to the practise of issuing tracking numbers but not shipping or not shipping within a reasonable period or in accordance with the seller's own handling/shipping policy. There are some companies which facilitate 3rd party selling that have that policy and enforce it but eBay doesn't which will erode eBay's business and may ultimately cause it to fail as has occurred with other companies that lost customers' confidence.

[bonafide_bidder]

I have contacted the seller 3 times asking when the item will be shipped and did not receive any replies and no record of shipping resulting from China Post tracking enquiries which caused me to believe that the sale was fraudulent. The item was ordered and paid for on December 8, 2020 and this is today's result from a tracking number enquiry:

20 Dec 2020

No information about your package. We've checked all relevant couriers for «Canada». If the country is not correct, please select the destination country below.

[reallynicestamps]

If the seller states they will ship within a specific period and they don't then eBay should automatically cancel the purchase and refund the buyer.

Automatically?

No.

First because not every seller tracks his shipments. International tracking is very expensive. A 100gr item sent Small Packet USA (untracked) costs $7.54. Tracked would cost $14.42.

Many sellers decide the extra $7, which is basically insurance against a false claim of non-delivery, is not worth while. And over 99% of the time, they would be right.

No tracking number does not mean no shipment.

But your idea would mean that sellers would be shipping goods to buyers who get refunds and the item.

You have recourse.

Which was explained above.

If the seller cannot show that he has shipped, and as has been said a tracking number is not proof of shipping, eBay will refund after a number of days in limbo.

But the buyer has to act on this. EBay will not do it willy-nilly.

And the buyer is covered from the moment of Payment by Paypal for 180 days and can open a Dispute there at any time.

[bonafide_bidder]

Obviously, you didn't read or comprehend my posts because, if you had, you would know that a tracking number was issued but not shipping actually occurred. The package is from China/HK, not the USA and the Chinese Government subsidizes shipping costs to the extent that even when there is no charge for shipping a tracking number is available for international shipments. Next time you reply, read and try to comprehend the facts instead of ignoring them and providing your own.

[marnotom!]

Is it possible that the number you were given is a delivery confirmation number rather than a tracking number? What mailing method was used or stated?

[pjcdn2005]

No need to be rude to people who are trying to help and to explain something. 

Are you saying that you know it hasn't been shipped only because the tracking is showing the movement?   As I said in an earlier post there are a few reasons why a package could have been shipped and tracking not showing that.  It's not uncommon for Asian sellers to give a 'tracking number' that is not really a tracking number for the public...it's something used internally by their shipper/consolidator.  I'm not sure why they would even give a buyer that number but I seen other situations where they've done that.

As far as ebay is concerned, that item does show as being shipped. It automatically shows as shipped when either the seller marks it as shipped OR when a tracking number is entered.  You should be able to see the icon when you look at your purchase history. 

I can understand why the situation is frustrating. One of the posters suggested earlier that if you paid through Paypal, you may be able to file a claim through them earlier than through ebay...that's about all I can suggest too.

[marnotom!]

I should also add that my wife and I have received a fair number of oversized letter/small packet-type packages from the US that were likely sent through mail consolidators that received nothing beyond an acceptance scan.

[pjcdn2005]

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@marnotom! wrote:
Is it possible that the number you were given is a delivery confirmation number rather than a tracking number? What mailing method was used or stated?

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Are there services that only have delivery confirmation?   The few that used to use the term 'delivery confirmation' still had an acceptance scan and some limited tracking. They just didn't guarantee that a package got tracked on a regular basis.

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:Are there services that only have delivery confirmation?   The few that used to use the term 'delivery confirmation' still had an acceptance scan and some limited tracking. They just didn't guarantee that a package got tracked on a regular basis.

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E-USPS DELCON INTL® (ugh, that's an acronym salad) service, as suggested by the name, is an international mailing service that includes delivery confirmation.  The USPS website states that it has "tracking information which includes the date and time an item was delivered" yada yada yada but doesn't state outright that it will get event scans along the way.

https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Electronic-USPS-Delivery-Confirmation-International

The official description in the Canada Post mail manual of the corps' domestic Registered Mail service states that the service has delivery confirmation but confuses things by adding "tracking" in parentheses in the title of the description.

https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGregister-e.asp

I think it's safe to say that in the case of both these services and for similar ones, the delivery scan is the only thing that's guaranteed.  As you suggest in your post, anything beyond that is gravy.