eBay

greatjay · ‎12-19-2018

Regarding - Global Shipping Program - Myself and other Canadians that I have talked to will simply NOT BUY from any United States user that is using that program. We search for sellers in Canada or U.S. sellers that do not use the program.

reallynicestamps · ‎12-20-2018

This is the eBay Canada Board.

You are preaching to the choir.

Try putting your post on the dotCOM and dotCOdotUK Boards because only US and UK sellers can use this Seller Protection Program.

latique101 · ‎12-20-2018

I did, not noticing the tiny link to the GSP, I was fixated on the import fees, and asking myself why this now, when I know there are no import duties on the item bought to Canada, and the fee is "estimated". After the purchase I delved into this, and found that it really is a eBay scam for extra

revenue. Why? Using tracking, the item was sent to the GPS center and immediately turned over to USPS, for shipment. So hard to see what GPS actually did. The item travelled through the US

from California and delivered in Kentucky. Unfortunately, for me, I live in Montreal. And they are not supposed to use this "service" for inside-US shipping.

News to eBay, Canada is next door, we can track stuff with your tracking number.

I will now try to chase my purchase down from Kentucky

latique101 · ‎12-20-2018

Not a reply, but an update. Turns out the USPS COMPLETED delivery to another Global Shipping Center in KY. Supposed to leave there sometime, for its next leg of journey. Hope I will have a new set of tracking numbers. Keeping you posted on this new and wonderful eBay service, as the trek continues.

latique101 · ‎12-20-2018

Contact sellers and tell them they are missing out a bunch of bidders.

momcqueen · ‎12-20-2018

@latique101 wrote:
I did, not noticing the tiny link to the GSP, I was fixated on the import fees, and asking myself why this now, when I know there are no import duties on the item bought to Canada, and the fee is "estimated". After the purchase I delved into this, and found that it really is a eBay scam for extra
revenue. Why? Using tracking, the item was sent to the GPS center and immediately turned over to USPS, for shipment. So hard to see what GPS actually did. The item travelled through the US
from California and delivered in Kentucky. Unfortunately, for me, I live in Montreal. And they are not supposed to use this "service" for inside-US shipping.
News to eBay, Canada is next door, we can track stuff with your tracking number.
I will now try to chase my purchase down from Kentucky

There is no scam. Duty and/or sales tax is legally due on virtually every item imported by mail into Canada over the $20 de minimus. Some categories of items have a zero-dollar de minimus. And the Global Shipping Program collects it on your behalf and sends it to the federal government.

If Canada Post collects duty and/or sales tax for you, they charge a $10 handling fee on top of the sales tax/duty. Couriers charge $20 brokerage fees and up ($90 is as high as I have paid as a brokerage fee on an item valued at less than $500 USD to UPS) so the $5 for handling by GSP is a relative good deal.

It's 'estimated' until time of purchase or payment due to fluctuating currencies. Hitting $20 CAD depends on the exact amount in USD at that moment. There is a vast difference between $14.78 USD and $15.19 USD in terms of de minimus implications.

momcqueen · ‎12-20-2018

This pertains to imports by mail or courier.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/menu-eng.html

femmefan1946 · ‎12-20-2018

when I know there are no import duties on the item bought to Canada,

No.

There is duty on any import over $20. Sales taxes are also charged on imports over the $20 duty-free allowance.

While items manufactured in countries with which Canada has a 'free trade' agreement* are duty-free, this does not apply to items which are merely purchased in such a country.

Sales taxes are charged whether there is duty or not.

For whatever reason, what most importers /buyers are paying is sales taxes.

The shipper is allowed to charge a service fee which has various names. GSP charges~$5USD, Canada Post $9.95, UPS $25 and up.

and the fee is "estimated".

That's the sales tax again.

With auctions, the import fees will be a percentage of value.

And sales taxes vary from province to province.

And foreign exchange varies from minute to minute (on a macro level) and daily on the retail level you and I are dealing with.

Turns out the USPS COMPLETED delivery to another Global Shipping Center in KY.

Yes, the seller is instructed to ship your purchase to Erlanger KY.

This is the only GSP plant in North America. It's run by PitneyBowes.

The GSP completes the importation paperwork, and puts it on a truck with thousands of other packages destined for Canada.

You will get a new tracking number which starts with UPxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

When the truck gets to Canada, it will be handed over usually to Canada Post**.

new and wonderful eBay service,

It's been around since 2013, and while it has no particular advantages for buyers***, it is popular enough with sellers, as a Seller Protection program, that it has been put into place in the UK, where sellers have also been paranoid and xenophobic about shipping outside their own nation.

You can avoid GSP shipping by:

Searching on a computer, not a phone.
Putting your Search in List view rather than Gallery view
Watching for the words Customs services and international tracking provided which mean the seller has opted into this Seller Protection program
Buying Canadian

*The one people think of the USA, but Canada has dozens of free trade agreements including with Chile, Costa Rica, Mali, and Israel. The CETA agreement is the biggest one at the moment, but the upcoming TPP will also be important.

** We've seen reports (actually complaints) that GSP sometimes uses CanPar or FedEx, but usually its the post office.

*** Some of the sellers using it would not be shipping outside the USA without it. It can be cheaper if the item is high value or heavy. It is terrible if the item's value is under $100.

latique101 · ‎12-20-2018

Sorry, do not buy this bafflegab. I have purchased dozens of items from the US, shipped via US or Canada Post, and never have they been intercepted by customs. Secondly, import duties and taxes applied by Canada are a matter between the buyer and Canadian government, really none of eBays business. The fee is free money for eBay. Collecting import fees does not help, if it is not normally applied, if it delays the shipment and if it not accurate in the "estimate". Only once I had an item brought to the Can customs ,it was a 65lb 5 channel receiver. Even then there was no duty - "electronics are duty-free", but UPS charged a fee for the inspection service. One should look at the Canadian duty rates. As to the GPS, it is obvious, that the Kentucky office is there to consolidate shipments, thus another delay, and to profit from shipping, given that the amount shown in the auction is based on normal USPS shipping costs.

momcqueen · ‎12-21-2018

You don’t have to buy it.

It’s the law.

marnotom! · ‎12-21-2018

@latique101 wrote:
Sorry, do not buy this bafflegab. I have purchased dozens of items from the US, shipped via US or Canada Post, and never have they been intercepted by customs. Secondly, import duties and taxes applied by Canada are a matter between the buyer and Canadian government, really none of eBays business. The fee is free money for eBay. Collecting import fees does not help, if it is not normally applied, if it delays the shipment and if it not accurate in the "estimate". Only once I had an item brought to the Can customs ,it was a 65lb 5 channel receiver. Even then there was no duty - "electronics are duty-free", but UPS charged a fee for the inspection service. One should look at the Canadian duty rates. As to the GPS, it is obvious, that the Kentucky office is there to consolidate shipments, thus another delay, and to profit from shipping, given that the amount shown in the auction is based on normal USPS shipping costs.

If you really want to get technical about it, Pitney Bowes (administrators of the Global Shipping Program) pays any taxes and duty due on a GSP item on your behalf. Because the item is being shipped as freight (not mail) from Kentucky to Mississauga (or whatever Canadian entry point is being used), it's not going to make it across the border without some sort of guarantee that taxes and duty have been accounted for by the importer. In this case, Pitney Bowes is acting as importer on your behalf.

This is similar to how most commercial shipments are handled. We're so accustomed to how Canada Border services handles (or doesn't handle) items sent through the post that it doesn't occur to many of us that there are actually other processes to handle imports. Sorry you don't believe the information others have presented to you, but you've actually just been extremely fortunate in your past purchases.

The Global Shipping Program is actually just a fancy forwarding service. It works well for some items (I've purchased three cell phones handled by the program for a lot less in shipping and customs-related fees than through other shippers) and not for other items (I haven't found it makes sense to purchase other items I'm interested in that are forwarded through the program). Just like other shipping methods, really.

Links to further information on the program are on every listing page where the GSP is the offered "shipping" method. There's no sleight of hand going on here, but you do have to do some homework to tease out some of the key points about the program's workings.

retroman_studios · ‎12-21-2018

I have the feeling that many buyers on eBay are simply not aware of the facts when it comes to purchases crossing borders.

Due in part to this, when they are charged either via GSP or Canada Post/Courier, they feel like they have been scammed or someone is money grabbing.

momcqueen · ‎12-21-2018

I’m certain that’s true. It baffles me, however, that ‘scam’ is Leading Theory A when one should instead assume ‘some law of which I was largely and blissfully unaware until now’ is the cause. I mean, how many people immediate holler ‘Scam!’ at the cop who pulls them over to issue a fine? No, you sit quietly and wait to learn what you caught caught doing that now has financial repercussions. Laws and legislation. As if we’d otherwise all be singing along to some fake song about the de minimus on the eBay Community Boards.

latique101 · ‎12-21-2018

As this chat continues, more info gets divulged. As a buyer, I have been shipped many items via

USPS/Canada Post, paying their normal rates, shipped directly , with tracking, in a few days, without any taxes, import charges having been applied. And if ever applied, Canada Post will collect on delivery. Simple.

An auction with GPS attached shows a shipping cost, indicating shipping costs as postal rates, and an estimated import fee , both of which are collected by the GPS, actually Pitney Bowes,

who receive the shipment, send it by USPS to a consolidation site in Kentucky (completing the USPS service as "delivered" ). There it waits for other stuff to fill the truck, before the truck proceeds, as a "commercial" shipment, to a Canadian border crossing, for inspection as a commercial shipment, collection of any duties, and somewhere unloading the truck to separate the packages for Canada Post, who will take a couple of days to deliver. End result, the shipping cost for PB is less than the normal rate ( remember commercial shipment across the border), and in majority of cases there is no import fee. The savings in shipping and import fees go to PitneyBowes. Bottom line for me, delays in shipment to consolidate the commercial shipment,

and an import fee kept by PB, where NO IMPORT DUTIES APPLY. I do not think I called it a scam, but I think the above is factual.

BTW, the eBay US chatroom shows cheap repackaging by PB to save weight. Two questions remain, if there is damage, who is responsible? And momoqueen, who do you work for/

pjcdn2005 · ‎12-21-2018

Any shipment at I’ve received via a courier has had duty and/or taxes due so I’m not sure why you would assume that there are no import charges paid to customs when PB ships across the border. The way that I understand it is that there is a difference in the way that packages shipped by mail are handled ny customs versus packages shipped by courier or freight.

Packages by mail pass through Canada customs who decide whether or not to assess duty or tax on a package. In my experience, they often don’t bother to assess lower cost packages or those sent via first class. That doesn’t mean that there are no import fees due, only that they have decided not to assess that package, probably because it costs more to do the paperwork than they would collect for that particular package. They can use their discretion on whether they want to charge import fees.

Courier and freight companies generally have custom brokers (not Canada customs employees) assess the product and as they don’t have the right to decide which packages are assessed, they collect duties and taxes for all applicable packages. That means that a package sent by mail may not be charged import fees but the same package sent another method will have to be charged import fees. Those fees are then submitted to the CRA. Your premise that PB just keeps all of the taxes and duties paid but buyers is not correct. Obviously a portion of the fees they collect is for their part in handling the package but they do have to submit applicable fees and taxes.

momcqueen · ‎12-21-2018

Who do I work for?

I’m a seller on eBay since 2012 and a buyer on eBay since 2006. I volunteer on the eBay Community Discussion Boards to assist other users with their questions or problems. This is partly due to a philanthropical nature as a concerned citizen of online Canadian commerce, and partly due to my inherent believe in sharing information and facts and truths to dispel misunderstandings and confusion.

If you’re attempting to insinuate that I work for eBay, Customs or CSIS, nothing could be further from the truth.

eBay employees are identified here as such. I’d have no motive whatsoever to pretend to be one when they’re already here, and every other user on the Boards would call anyone out as pretending to be something they’re not since we’re a community of about a hundred people who know each other’s situations.

So I gave you a truthful response; it’s your turn. Who do you work for?

As to your other question: if an item shipping via the Global Shipping Program arrives damaged, the Global Shipping Program is liable for it. Why do you ask?

reallynicestamps · ‎12-21-2018

As a retired federal public servant I'd like to mention a couple of details.

Most public servants are well-paid.

A customs officer for example makes about $67,000 annually.

https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/Canada-Border-Services-Agency-Salaries-E107408.htm

That's around $35 an hour.

Or 57 cents a minute.

If an officer spends 10 minutes assessing whether or not a given package should be charged duty, and then how much, and then figuring out the sales taxes in the destination province, she just cost the Canadian taxpayer $5.70 . On a $50 item destined for Alberta and manufactured (not purchased, manufactured) in Mali (we have free trade with Mali), she might be collecting $2.50.

Canada just lost $3.20 by collecting the applicable duty and taxes. The actual collection by the Canada Post carrier is $9.95, which probably does cover their costs.

Which brings me to the second point.

Most public servants are pretty smart. Most jobs require at least Grade 12, but more likely a post-secondary diploma.

So the public servants figured out that it was more efficient and less expensive to ignore low value imports and concentrate on shipments where the duty and taxes collected would actually be profitable.

The (somewhat illegal ) level they generally seem to use is around $100 and up.

This has begun to dawn on the politicians, who are moving to raising the duty free level to $150. (The US level is $800.)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/de-minimis-duty-free-1.4845458

So if you haven't been charged duty on imports, thank a public servant.

marnotom! · ‎12-22-2018

@latique101 wrote:

An auction with GPS attached shows a shipping cost, indicating shipping costs as postal rates, and an estimated import fee , both of which are collected by the GPS, actually Pitney Bowes, who receive the shipment, send it by USPS to a consolidation site in Kentucky (completing the USPS service as "delivered" ). There it waits for other stuff to fill the truck, before the truck proceeds, as a "commercial" shipment, to a Canadian border crossing, for inspection as a commercial shipment, collection of any duties, and somewhere unloading the truck to separate the packages for Canada Post, who will take a couple of days to deliver. End result, the shipping cost for PB is less than the normal rate ( remember commercial shipment across the border), and in majority of cases there is no import fee. The savings in shipping and import fees go to PitneyBowes. Bottom line for me, delays in shipment to consolidate the commercial shipment, and an import fee kept by PB, where NO IMPORT DUTIES APPLY. I do not think I called it a scam, but I think the above is factual.

You've sort of got the idea. The marketing claims of the GSP to sellers are that it supposedly makes international shipping as simple or straightforward as domestic shipping.

The shipping of a GSP-forwarded item has three legs. The first leg is the seller's responsibility. The seller will ship the item to Kentucky the same way as they would to a domestic buyer, be it USPS, UPS, FedEx or whatever carrier they choose. The buyer will be charged the seller's charge for shipping to Kentucky and the seller collects that shipping amount. If the seller offers "free" shipping within the US, the buyer will not see a shipping charge from the seller.

The second leg is between Kentucky and a hub in the receiving country. In the case of Canada, it's often (if not usually) Mississauga. This is probably the least expensive leg of the journey due to economies of scale and the nature of commercial freight shipping.

The third leg of the journey is within the receiving country. For items destined for Canada, this can be the most expensive leg of the journey as even small items will travel to their destinations as parcels and Minimum Density can be a killer.

The shipping charges for both the second and third legs are levied by Pitney Bowes and will show up on a second PayPal payment. However, on the listing page they're lumped in with the charge for the first leg making one big shipping charge.

I'm not following where you find a "savings in import fees," however. What Pitney Bowes calls "import charges" are a combination of GST/HST, duties, and various customs clearance fees, the latter usually totalling less than what Canada Post charges when Canada Border Services assesses taxes and duties on a postal import. (And certainly less than what UPS or FedEx charge for similar services on a ground shipment.) Pitney Bowes' fees add about US$5 to the import charges.

And just to clarify my earlier post, Pitney Bowes does not "collect" taxes or duty. It pays them on your behalf. The "import charges" are your repayment of the taxes, duties and other charges. It's considered an "estimate" because in most listings, sellers haven't given enough (or accurate enough) information on the nature of the item for the GSP "bot" to calculate bang-on accurate charges, so it has to apply some "worst case scenarios". If you're finding that an item forwarded through the GSP has duty or taxes applied to it when it shouldn't, it's probably due to issues with the category the seller chose for the listing or the fact that the item's country of manufacture wasn't specified.

latique101 · ‎12-23-2018

Thank you, Canadian Customs officer and others for helping to peel this onion. I am not getting into the relative cost of shipping directly from seller to buyer vs. using Pitney Bowes delayed service. However does Pitney Bowes/eBay not keep the unpaid taxes and import duties? And if not collected, how do I get it back?

Read more on this subject on chatroom eBAy.com and google Pitney Bowes, for the many horror stories. As for me, I am now watchful not to get into this "service", and will advise sellers of items of interest that use GPS: " Sorry, your item will be too expensive. Not that you would know".

Au revoir

marnotom! · ‎12-23-2018

@latique101 wrote:

Thank you, Canadian Customs officer and others for helping to peel this onion. I am not getting into the relative cost of shipping directly from seller to buyer vs. using Pitney Bowes delayed service. However does Pitney Bowes/eBay not keep the unpaid taxes and import duties? And if not collected, how do I get it back?

You're paying "import charges" and not taxes and duties. The import charges go toward Pitney Bowes' payment of the taxes and duties, various processing fees, and whatever else Pitney Bowes needs that money for. You're not going to get anything back if you feel you were overcharged and it says as much in the terms and conditions one presumably agrees to when they purchase an item forwarded through the GSP.

https://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

The import charges are an estimate. That means that sometimes the GSP bot will get the calculation pretty much right, sometimes Pitney Bowes may lose out a little, and sometimes it may hit the jackpot. A lot depends on how the seller lists the item and how much information they provide on it. Yes, there are GSP horror stories, but there are horror stories about pretty much every aspect of eBay, and the majority of those horror stories are the products of either sellers or buyers not knowing what they're doing or not knowing what they don't know.

Happy holidays.