Unjust Chargeback- Buyer Got A Full Refund $269.18 & Will Not Return My Item - Help!

[stripedkity8]

   

  Unjust Chargeback - Buyer Won't Return Item - Any Suggestions?  

   

Sold a brand new book for $234.99. Item had a confirmed delivery date as August 14, 2017. Buyer emails me on August 24th, claiming she did not receive the book. I asked the buyer to check with their local Postal Facility to try to locate it. And if they had no luck to contact me so I could "Open a Service Ticket With Canada Post". I asked the buyer to let me know should the item arrive. Well, I got no response. And then just 6 days later, I get a notice from PayPal that the buyer has opened a Chargeback claim for Item not as described.  I supplied all the necessary information to defend myself, but of course they sided with the Buyer. I spoke to PayPal about this, and was told that there is nothing I could do, no appeal at all, and the case was closed. So, I told them that since the buyer got a full refund, I want my item back. So PayPal sent the buyer an email requesting my item be returned at my expense. I, as well sent an email requesting the book be returned, at my expense. So far, the buyer has not responded. HOW DO I GET BACK MY BOOK? This behaviour, to me, is an indication that this buyer targeted me from the start with the intent to commit fraud, and has gotten away with it. And me, the honest Seller, there is no protection for me at all. I asked for photos or any evidence as to how the book was "not as described",  and was given nothing at all, only that the credit card company closed the case in the Buyer's favor. As for as I know, the buyer could have damaged/marked the book and claimed it was not as described. DOES ANYONE THINK THIS IS FAIR? I have been found guilty, and not given any evidence.  I sell a lot of stuff on EBAY, and this is the first chargeback claim with 'item not as described' on my account. I know this buyer is a scammer, but what can I do, and how do I prove it. The way I see it is that, if you buy an item at the store, you have to return the item, with a receipt, before you get a refund. I have lost $269.18, the buyer got a full refund and wants to keep a very expensive book. HOW CAN PAYPAL ALLOW THIS? THIS OUTDATED POLICY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED WITH SOME PROTECTION FOR THE SELLER. THIS IS SO UNFAIR & I AM SO ANGRY. HAVING LOTS OF SLEEPLESS NIGHTS WITH LOTS OF ANXIETY. PLEASE HELP! THANK YOU.

[stripedkity8]

Sold a brand new book for $234.99. Item had a confirmed delivery date as August 14, 2017. Buyer emails me on August 24th, claiming she did not receive the book. I asked the buyer to check with their local Postal Facility to try to locate it. And if they had no luck to contact me so I could "Open a Service Ticket With Canada Post". I asked the buyer to let me know should the item arrive. Well, I got no response. And then just 6 days later, I get a notice from PayPal that the buyer has opened a Chargeback claim for Item not as described.  I supplied all the necessary information to defend myself, but of course they sided with the Buyer. I spoke to PayPal about this, and was told that there is nothing I could do, no appeal at all, and the case was closed. So, I told them that since the buyer got a full refund, I want my item back. So PayPal sent the buyer an email requesting my item be returned at my expense. I, as well sent an email requesting the book be returned, at my expense. So far, the buyer has not responded. HOW DO I GET BACK MY BOOK? This behaviour, to me, is an indication that this buyer targeted me from the start with the intent to commit fraud, and has gotten away with it. And me, the honest Seller, there is no protection for me at all. I asked for photos or any evidence as to how the book was "not as described",  and was given nothing at all, only that the credit card company closed the case in the Buyer's favor. As for as I know, the buyer could have damaged/marked the book and claimed it was not as described. DOES ANYONE THINK THIS IS FAIR? I have been found guilty, and not given any evidence.  I sell a lot of stuff on EBAY, and this is the first chargeback claim with 'item not as described' on my account. I know this buyer is a scammer, but what can I do, and how do I prove it. The way I see it is that, if you buy an item at the store, you have to return the item, with a receipt, before you get a refund. I have lost $269.18, the buyer got a full refund and wants to keep a very expensive book. HOW CAN PAYPAL ALLOW THIS? THIS OUTDATED POLICY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED WITH SOME PROTECTION FOR THE SELLER. THIS IS SO UNFAIR & I AM SO ANGRY. HAVING LOTS OF SLEEPLESS NIGHTS WITH LOTS OF ANXIETY. PLEASE HELP! THANK YOU.

[pansy19]

Last year I sold Canada Goose Parka . $ CDN 450.00.
After using Jacket 10 days Buyer open request , that jacket make him sweat , and ripped under armpits , he gained weights .
Pay Pal Refund all amount to Buyer with no Return Jacket to me .
Closed case .

Try to speak with Pay Pal Manager , she helped me .
Good luck.

[stripedkity8]

I spoke with PayPal and they said, there is nothing I can do except to deal with the Buyer. This buyer WILL NOT RESPOND  to my message or PayPal's message to return the item, even at my expense. How did PayPal help you?

Thanks

[esclyons]

payapl screwed up, if the item was not as described, it should have been returned to you for inspection, then a refund could be issued after you received your item back,, not before..i would be calling paypal back, as they didn't follow protocol as far as i am can figure..

[izzame]

Like you said above this is a "chargeback" claim very different. The buyer by-past ebay & Paypal and went directly to his credit card issuer and filed a "chargeback" with them. As a customer courtesy, they in turn required Paypal to refund to them, now Paypal is out the funds so they in turn go to you (who ultimately received the funds). Paypal is not to blame here, this is how it works. I agree not right or fair but all businesses run this risk that accept cc. Brick & morter run into it all the time, they do have the leverage of contacting police etc.
I assume that you shipped with tracking, follow that through, if CP says delivered possibly look at filing with them mail fraud.

[stripedkity8]

Absolutely, I shipped with Tracking. The buyer received the item Aug. 14, and on the 24th tried telling me she did not receive it. When I said I would look into it with Canada Post, I got no response from her, and about 6 days later,  I get this Chargeback Notice with "Item not as described".  It was a Brand New Book, I listed it as such, and somehow, she got refunded, and won't return the book at my expense. She will not respond, not to me and not to PayPal, who also emailed her to return the item to me at my expense. She just wants to keep it, and appears I was targeted from the start with the intent to commit Fraud. She got her full refund back, so why won't she return my book? I have lost $269.18 with the shipping. And PayPal is okay with type of unjust practice towards Sellers. They say I have to work it out with the buyer. How can I do that if she won't respond. PayPal sent an email to the buyer's Credit Card Issuer, and even they are ignoring PayPal's email. So what am I to do here, it really is unfair and PayPal's Policy regarding "Chargebacks" needs to change, so that when a buyer wins the claim, if the seller wants the item back, they need to return it first with Tracking as proof the item was returned (even at the sellers expense), before that buyer gets a refund.  Their current policy refunds first, and expects me to hound the buyer to give it back. Do you see that happening? They got their full refund and now have my book as well. This buyer is a fraud, and everyone must beware. Does anyone know if it is legal to post her EBAY user I.D.  to protect other sellers by putting her user I.D. on the buyer block list?

[lady.stark]

I am really sorry for you. And no, you can't "name and shame" on the boards here.

Did you try calling the buyer? I know it must be a long distance call, but it's worth a shot. Even if it is hard, please remain calm on the phone and don't insult the buyer. Begin your sentences with "I" and not "You", which can be perceived as accusatory. Hope it works out...

[stripedkity8]

I did not think of calling, that is a good idea, and worth a try.  Thanks for the tip.

[stripedkity8]

Okay, so I tried phoning  the buyer a few times, no one ever picked up. Tried a couple more emails without a response.  I guess my next step is to speak with the manager at PayPal (as was suggested by one of you). I was also advised to take my story to the Media, but first I will give PayPal a chance to make this right. I will not give up to a Con/Scam Artist, especially when it is plain obvious I was targeted from the start with the intent to commit Fraud. And I know 100% I shipped out a Brand New book and to think that I even enclosed a thank you gift. So unfair!

[tobey_arih]

dun expect Paypal protection blah blah gunna work cuz they won't lift a finger to help. Lazy how they accomodate you as a seller?

This type of service and questionable ethics would perish the company in real-world business when they have face corps

[stripedkity8]

You're right, PAYPAL has done nothing, but take my money & give it to the buyer without first getting my expensive book back. So right now my local Police Station is looking into this matter. The last update I got was to say that the all the buyer information is not valid, and the buyer cannot be located. It is plain obvious this buyer is a con artist/fraud. Next, my case will be forwarded to the U.S.  Police Department in the buyer's home town, and hopefully they can find out who & where this fraudulent buyer is hiding out. Thanks for responding and wish me luck!

[halmara_0]

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@stripedkity8wrote:

   

  Unjust Chargeback - Buyer Won't Return Item - Any Suggestions?  

   

Sold a brand new book for $234.99. Item had a confirmed delivery date as August 14, 2017. Buyer emails me on August 24th, claiming she did not receive the book. I asked the buyer to check with their local Postal Facility to try to locate it. And if they had no luck to contact me so I could "Open a Service Ticket With Canada Post". I asked the buyer to let me know should the item arrive. Well, I got no response. And then just 6 days later, I get a notice from PayPal that the buyer has opened a Chargeback claim for Item not as described.  I supplied all the necessary information to defend myself, but of course they sided with the Buyer. I spoke to PayPal about this, and was told that there is nothing I could do, no appeal at all, and the case was closed. So, I told them that since the buyer got a full refund, I want my item back. So PayPal sent the buyer an email requesting my item be returned at my expense. I, as well sent an email requesting the book be returned, at my expense. So far, the buyer has not responded. HOW DO I GET BACK MY BOOK? This behaviour, to me, is an indication that this buyer targeted me from the start with the intent to commit fraud, and has gotten away with it. And me, the honest Seller, there is no protection for me at all. I asked for photos or any evidence as to how the book was "not as described",  and was given nothing at all, only that the credit card company closed the case in the Buyer's favor. As for as I know, the buyer could have damaged/marked the book and claimed it was not as described. DOES ANYONE THINK THIS IS FAIR? I have been found guilty, and not given any evidence.  I sell a lot of stuff on EBAY, and this is the first chargeback claim with 'item not as described' on my account. I know this buyer is a scammer, but what can I do, and how do I prove it. The way I see it is that, if you buy an item at the store, you have to return the item, with a receipt, before you get a refund. I have lost $269.18, the buyer got a full refund and wants to keep a very expensive book. HOW CAN PAYPAL ALLOW THIS? THIS OUTDATED POLICY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED WITH SOME PROTECTION FOR THE SELLER. THIS IS SO UNFAIR & I AM SO ANGRY. HAVING LOTS OF SLEEPLESS NIGHTS WITH LOTS OF ANXIETY. PLEASE HELP! THANK YOU.

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[halmara_0]

Sold a brand new book for $234.99. Item had a confirmed delivery date as August 14, 2017. Buyer emails me on August 24th, claiming she did not receive the book. I asked the buyer to check with their local Postal Facility to try to locate it. And if they had no luck to contact me so I could "Open a Service Ticket With Canada Post". I asked the buyer to let me know should the item arrive. Well, I got no response. And then just 6 days later, I get a notice from PayPal that the buyer has opened a Chargeback claim for Item not as described.  I supplied all the necessary information to defend myself, but of course they sided with the Buyer. I spoke to PayPal about this, and was told that there is nothing I could do, no appeal at all, and the case was closed. So, I told them that since the buyer got a full refund, I want my item back. So PayPal sent the buyer an email requesting my item be returned at my expense. I, as well sent an email requesting the book be returned, at my expense. So far, the buyer has not responded. HOW DO I GET BACK MY BOOK? This behaviour, to me, is an indication that this buyer targeted me from the start with the intent to commit fraud, and has gotten away with it. And me, the honest Seller, there is no protection for me at all. I asked for photos or any evidence as to how the book was "not as described",  and was given nothing at all, only that the credit card company closed the case in the Buyer's favor. As for as I know, the buyer could have damaged/marked the book and claimed it was not as described. DOES ANYONE THINK THIS IS FAIR? I have been found guilty, and not given any evidence.  I sell a lot of stuff on EBAY, and this is the first chargeback claim with 'item not as described' on my account. I know this buyer is a scammer, but what can I do, and how do I prove it. The way I see it is that, if you buy an item at the store, you have to return the item, with a receipt, before you get a refund. I have lost $269.18, the buyer got a full refund and wants to keep a very expensive book. HOW CAN PAYPAL ALLOW THIS? THIS OUTDATED POLICY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED WITH SOME PROTECTION FOR THE SELLER. THIS IS SO UNFAIR & I AM SO ANGRY. HAVING LOTS OF SLEEPLESS NIGHTS WITH LOTS OF ANXIETY. PLEASE HELP! THANK YOU.

[pjcdn2005]

I'm sorry that this happened and I would be frustrated as well. As soon as a buyer opens a chargeback with their credit card the decision is totally in the credit card company's hands, Paypal does not have a say. So there really is no way for Paypal to protect you in a not as described chargeback situation. I have no idea why the credit card company doesn't require the buyer to send the item back though.

This doesn't help you now, but for the future...if a buyer opens an unauthorized use chargeback with their credit card company Paypal will cover the buyer as long as you show proof of shipment or delivery to the payment address that the buyer used.  

[stripedkity8]

Thank you for responding. I did have Tracking loaded, but Paypal said they could not cover me, because the buyer claimed the book was NOT AS DESCRIBED, which is not covered by Paypal Protection.  I know full well the book was in Mint Condition when it was well packed & shipped as was listed in New Condition. I was never told what was wrong with the book, but I strongly believe this buyer marked one or more pages and produced that as evidence to say the book was not as described. How can I photograph every page, when I am only allowed 12 photos per listing. The Canadian Police have tried calling this buyer, even with an untraced phone number, and still could not locate them. And for the Police to get further information from their Credit Card Company, I would have to pay $200.00. What would be the point, when I have lost $269.00? It is obvious this buyer is a Scam Artist/Fraud from the U.S.A. and targeted me, in Canada, from the start because they knew it would be more difficult for me to find them. The big problem is the Credit Card Company, who refunds first, and does not ask the buyer to return the item. If you bought an item at the store, you would never be able to get a refund without returning the item, and 99% of the time, you need to show a receipt as well. So I don't understand how selling on-line is any different, especially when we are dealing with an expensive item. I don't know how these Credit Card Companies sleep at night with this type of practice. There is no consideration for the Seller. This type of practice needs to change. I have sent my case to Marketplace on CBC, and hopefully one of these days, they will do a program that exposes this type of practice with Credit Card Companies, that changes will be made to protect the Seller.  And by the way, does anyone know of a legitimate & legal site where I can post this buyer's name & address so that other Sellers can beware? As for selling on EBAY, I have decided to sell expensive items locally, in Canada only, where buyers tend to be more principled and more respectful of others.