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ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎12-13-2024

https://x.com/stevenmackinnon/status/1867588692560531609

The Labour Minister Steve MacKinnon invoked his authorities under the Canadian Labour Code to request that the CIRB (Canadian Industrial Relations Board) order Canada Post back to work and extend the terms of their current collective bargaining agreement.

This does not require a vote, instead the CIRB has to agree that an agreement between both parties under the current circumstances is unlikely. There was some speculation the last week or so that this might happen since it is an avenue to force Canada Post back without requiring a vote in Parliament.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎12-14-2024

It is my understanding that the demands of the union are predicated on the idea that the government should intervene and change the law and regulations in order to allow Canada Post to operate as a tax-payer subsidized operation.

As Canada Post currently exists, it is expected to be self-sustaining. It does not have to make a profit every year, but it has to have the cash-on-hand to cover losses, and ideally operates at a break-even or profit. It is my understanding that the position of the union is that Canada Post should be funded by tax payers instead, which would make their ask viable. Under the current law and regulations, it doesn't matter if Canada Post wants to meet their demands, they simply cannot meet those demands and remain self-sustaining.

It's not a black and white issue, because some people argue that the reason they cannot meet those demands and remain self-sustaining is because of bad management, and that the workers shouldn't have to take cuts because the failures of management.

I don't know enough about the situation to know which side is closer to the truth. I am not going to take one side over the other at face value. But it's very clear that with added competition from the "gig-economy" type couriers, something has to change. Either Canada Post has to be able to evolve their business model to compete, or the government has to decide that we the tax payer should be on the hook for a failing business model, because the public good that business model brings exceeds the costs to us in taxes. My guess is that most people outside the union aren't crazy about the second option. People who rely directly on Canada Post for business or people in rural areas might be more accepting of the second option, because as a tax payer they will get more value than the average person from Canada Post operations being subsidized by the entire country.

fergua3 · ‎12-14-2024

it won't be that bad. Most of the workers will be glad to get back to work and making money. There probably won't be work to rule.......they are being ordered back to work and have to perform their jobs normally. Work to rule happens during strike action, usually in the early stages. When ordered back to work the strike is nullified. Besides, most workers will be thrilled to get some overtime to make up for a month's lost wages.

There will be some mal contents, of course, but the vast majority of workers will do their jobs like normal. They are mad at CP, and maybe the Libs, there is little logic in taking it out on the Canadian public, who are the source of their income, btw. They've already done us enough harm.

However, there will be a backlog of packages. Those that were in the system when the strike started and those that poured in for two weeks from the US and abroad before that was halted.

In the 2018 strike it took up to 2 months to clear the backlog.....but most was cleared long before that. And the backlog was way worse back then than it is this time. I recall new packages i sent were a bit slower in arriving, but nothing horrible.......maybe an extra week. And once packages to the US and abroad are out of Canada they wil be processed at normal speeds.

After the 2018 strike there was a brief period of 'peaceful civil disobedience' called for by the union prez. The idea was for workers after or before their shifts to slowly walk back and forth on the sidewalks, blocking access to various postal facilities in an attempt to slow down the mail. It worked until police were called in and the slow walkers moved. Some members from other unions joined in briefly and even Canada's Communist party pitched in.........which CUPW wasn't too thrilled about. Anyway, the whole thing fizzled out after a week or so with little harm done.

darak10 · ‎12-14-2024

people who think or are under the impression this is going to be over on Monday, please carefully examine the wording of the announcements.

There is NOTHING in these press releases that indicates this will end Monday or this coming week.

Mackinnon's wording for the timeline of this assessment to recommend the back to work is for the end of 2024, not December 16.

Not to mention the wording of the cp24 article is also entirely conditional, it states:

Mail *could* begin moving again in Canada as early as next week after the federal government moved Friday to end the nearly month long work stoppage. (as we know, could is far from 100%!)

Labour Minister Steven MacKinnon referred the dispute to the Canada Industrial Relations Board, with the aim of ordering the nearly 55,000 workers back to work and extending their current contract until May 22, 2025 — *if* (THE crucial qualifier) the board determines a deal isn’t within reach before the end of the year.

This last sentence qualifies the situation again by referring implicitly to the possibility the board could also just conclude "oh yes, they can make a deal, they just need to try harder - get back to negotiating".

I dont think we should be jumping to conclusions about where we think this is going to go in the near future - I never thought these two groups would be stupid enough to hold the entire country hostage during the peak use period of the year but I was dead wrong - and as such its also wrong to suggest CP will be back up and running this coming week.

They will be back up and running when this board is done their assessment and makes the recommendation to force the back to work. If they make the decision to send them back to negotiation, then all this continues indefinitely. Again, the timeline for this decision has been reported to occur before the end of this month.

That is all we know, as frustrating as this is.

So lets plunk our butts back in our seats, keep on with our lives and unfortunately continue to suck up the financial losses as we frankly have no other choice.

femmefan1946 · ‎12-14-2024

As of December 14, the workers still have not been ordered back to work.

(they can also afford to be since they keep getting paid by the union during strikes.....so it's no skin off their noses to call for a strike).

During a strike the union officers get strike pay, like the workers on the picket line.

fergua3 · ‎12-14-2024

it would be a good idea, once the CIRB orders the workers back to work if the union tells them to go back right away, even if they have a few days before the order takes effect. Otherwise they are simiply costing the workers several more days of pay, for no reason.

So once the board so orders, which will probably be Monday, the workers will probably go back to work, on Wednesday i'm guessing....if not the union is just being spiteful at a cost to its workers and the Canadian public, whom the purport to care about.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎12-14-2024

It's 99.9 percent that they are going back to work. It was confirmed to different news agencies by "insiders". I also doubt that they would table this if they didn't have some assurance that the criteria was adequate for it to pass. Otherwise, they would have tried it earlier.

What "back to work" will look like for small businesses or "lettermail sellers" is a different discussion. I wouldn't bet on things being normal, but it might be a positive if people are at least able to get packages in the system and get some cash flow going, even if it doesn't offset the business that they lost because of the strike and might continue to lose until the backlog is cleared and Canada Post is operating at full efficiency.

38e_avenue · ‎12-14-2024

@femmefan1946 wrote:
As of December 14, the workers still have not been ordered back to work.
(they can also afford to be since they keep getting paid by the union during strikes.....so it's no skin off their noses to call for a strike).
During a strike the union officers get strike pay, like the workers on the picket line.

They are paid by CUPW max. 200 dol./ week, so it surely cannot replace their salary.

postit4me · ‎12-15-2024

" in 2018 it took up to 2 months to clear backlog" ... news articles state 3 weeks. Fear mongering spreading rumors.

nyb_shop · ‎12-15-2024

Canada Post tanked my Q4 sales by at least 80% less compared to prior years. Their greed and our government's inaction costed me A LOT of money. Even if they are ordered back to work, it's TOO LATE.

postit4me · ‎12-15-2024

" It is my understanding that the demands of the union ... to allow Canada Post as a tax-payer subsidzed operation" Please provide a reference for this statement. I have not heard this. The Union wants its workers to be safe, have a raise to help keep up with inflation, and not have a second class employees who only work on weekends delivering parcels with no benefits, among other things.

Canada Post claims losses every year because they build or renovated three large plants Toronto ( Albert Jackson ) , Vancouver and Winnipeg. All every high property value areas. They also ordered new vehicles for the lettercarriers in stead of ordering so many per year as they can afford them. Canada Post also handed out bonuses to their very top heavy executives and supervisors. If they lost money why would one do this? That my friend these are the questions that need to be investigated by the government.

john_koenig99 · ‎12-15-2024

Well, for my part, I will never, ever using CP for my shippments. Ever. I'm done with them.

mrdutch1001 · ‎12-15-2024

That is good for you...congratulations!... but not everyone has that choice. So for my part when the dust settles in January or February or whenever ... I shall be back in Canada Post's arms...a warm & fuzzy thought and for many of us CP will still be the most economcal shipping method for shipping items that are sent oversize lettermail in Canada and Tracked Packet to USA!

triber · ‎12-15-2024

I agree, no choice. Not anywhere near alternate mailing options. My 83 year old husband does all my mailing because I am disabled, I am not about to send him to far regions to mail, I will just wait patiently for the strike to finish.

reallynicestamps · ‎12-15-2024

There probably won't be work to rule.......they are being ordered back to work and have to perform their jobs normally.

Work to rule means doing the job you are paid to do.

And no more.

So if the mailbag weighs more than 50 lbs, stuff is removed until it only weighs 50lbs, even if that means some letters get delivered tomorrow.

Because that's not the job requirement.

If the address on the package is 123 Any Road, and the postal addres is 123 Any Street, it is Undeliverable as No Such Address.

Because that's not the job requirement.

If it's 4:30 and it takes 30 minutes to get back to the terminal, you go back to the terminal and check out at 5pm when your shift ends even if there is just one more stop on your route.

Because that's not the job requirement.

Most employees, in any well run business, go a little farther to make their job better and their colleagues' jobs easier, no matter what the contract says.

But that's not the job requirement.

fergua3 · ‎12-15-2024

Not fear mongering.......that is a strange thing to call it. I was there. With all due respect to whatever news articles you are referring to, the workers were ordered back to work late November. There will still packages that had been caught in the strike being delivered in late January. I know because one of them was mine.

And i did say most of the backlog was cleared much quicker than that. But not all....some were no doubt overlooked for a long while in all the confusion. From the rotating strikes and subsequent lockout, there were parking lots full of semi trailers packed with mail and parcels. Not hard to believe it took a while to clear all that up, especially with the volume of Christmas mail that was coming in, once the strike ended.

This time will probablly be better as there wasn't as big a backlog in the system when the strike began because there wasn't a period of rotating strikes, like in 2018. However, as i stated, packages have been coming in from the US and abroad for a couple of weeks after the strike started, before that was stopped. So there will be that, no doubt sizable, backlog to clear. I hope it's done in 3 weeks, that would be terrific.

silverpinups · ‎12-16-2024

Canada Post employees are back to work Tuesday.....

https://vancouversun.com/news/canada-post-workers-return-tuesday

marnotom! · ‎12-16-2024

@reallynicestamps wrote:

Work to rule means doing the job you are paid to do.
And no more. . . .

Most employees, in any well run business, go a little farther to make their job better and their colleagues' jobs easier, no matter what the contract says.
But that's not the job requirement.

Just to add to your post, from what I've been reading it appears that Canada Post relies heavily on workers doing overtime in order to keep its wheels greased.

silverpinups · ‎12-16-2024

Here's another article with a little more detail on Canada Post employees returning to work on Tueday...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canada-post-says-workers-to-return-tuesday-after-labour-board-ruling...

38e_avenue · ‎12-16-2024

@marnotom! wrote:
@reallynicestamps wrote:

Work to rule means doing the job you are paid to do.
And no more. . . .

Most employees, in any well run business, go a little farther to make their job better and their colleagues' jobs easier, no matter what the contract says.
But that's not the job requirement.
Just to add to your post, from what I've been reading it appears that Canada Post relies heavily on workers doing overtime in order to keep its wheels greased.

It's not about the overtime, it's about to do sometimes "a little bit more". Unfortunately, it also applies to other postal services: USPS returned a package to me, because the last digit in 9-digit zip code was wrong. Oddly, by doing this they need to work MORE (handle returns, etc.). The infamous "not my job" rule often prevails over common sense ...

fergua3 · ‎12-16-2024

thanks all for clarifying what work to rule is. I was under the impression that it was a form of strike action ie the most gentle form.

I do know that some overtime at CP is manditory. I used to talk with my former mail dellivery person and he would tell me that he had to work overtime sometimes....ie he said 'they are making me work overtime or 'i have to work overtime'. I was surprised by that because i thought that would be against the law or at least against their negotiated contract rules.