Canada Post Possible Stike

[stanley613]

What happens now that orders are in the mail with a possible expected delivery date of September 30 and early October, what happens if not received there is no way of knowing whether these items will be received after strike is over.  Will eBay delay delivery date?

[hlmacdon]

@grharris-3 wrote:

So as an eBay buyer, I just ordered a few things from the UK.  Normally, eBay allows you to open a "item not received" claim up to 30 days past the expected delivery date.    The expected delivery date shows up as mid-December, but with the strike it may not arrive until March.  How do I protect myself against not receiving item without negatively affecting the seller if it doesn't arrive within 30 days of the expected delivery date?

Paypal and most credit cards provide for up to, and are typically, 180 day chargeback periods. Ebay guarantee isn't really anything other than a marketing gimmick (albeit a handy one for people who don't understand the concept of a chargeback) when you realize this. When you order anything from the UK you want to request international tracked service. This is because it matches to the UPU postal class Post Expres (our tracked packet) which means it gets priority processing as there is a UPU service standard for it. If they ship international signed/international tracked and signed it gets treated by lettermail by Canada Post (due to the registered requirement) which has no delivery standard. Because the terminal dues Canada Post receives are considerably less for lettermail they purposefully delay processing and delivery of packets sent via registered mail or standard airmail. This has been going on for quite a long while prior to the strike as the US and Canada have been trying to force other UPU members to switch over to Post Expres since their compensation levels are much higher, not to mention that cheap lettermail class packets are often used to send illicit substances for dirt cheap around the world.

When Canada Post is trumping up the delayed to March claims for international shipments, they are specifically referring to lettermail class packets that contain physical goods. They are not referring to classes such as Post Expres (ie other rebrandings such as e-packet) and EMS which are processed with the same expediency as domestic expedited/xpress parcels.

[grharris-3]

Ahh, thanks for the helpful reply!  The seller only sent by Royal Mail international standard.  So I'm thinking the best option is not to open a eBay ticket and if it doesn't arrive by 180 days, to open a PayPal request instead?

[momcqueen]

A strike by postal workers is the best reason to give your fellow ebay seller a break. In this case, I'd say, yes, wait out the 179 days (or as close to 180 as you feel comfortable) before opening your case with PayPal. In any other circumstances, I'd not allow as much patience but these are really unusual times and difficult times to be an online seller in Canada and an online shopper in Canada for reasons not within our control. 

[ricarmic]

If you're worried, another option is to talk to the seller when it gets closer to the 30 days.

I regularly have buyers that contact me about slow arrivals and are patient and wait PAST the 30 days because I've conversed with them and I've advised that I will look after them regardless of the ebay rules (and I always do). This is how it's always been in the stamp world, long before the internet......

[hlmacdon]

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@grharris-3 wrote:

Ahh, thanks for the helpful reply!  The seller only sent by Royal Mail international standard.  So I'm thinking the best option is not to open a eBay ticket and if it doesn't arrive by 180 days, to open a PayPal request instead?

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You've gotten some good advice from other posters, but what I would say is that you know there will be a long delay due to the strike impact and that your package was sent via a method that will be the most delayed class of mail. With that in mind I would say be mindful of the paypal chargeback deadline and give your seller leeway within that deadline as there is absolutely nothing a seller can do to influence a postal shipment even at the best of times when the postal service is operating smoothly. 

[ypdc_dennis]

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@grharris-3 wrote:

So as an eBay buyer, I just ordered a few things from the UK.  Normally, eBay allows you to open a "item not received" claim up to 30 days past the expected delivery date.    The expected delivery date shows up as mid-December, but with the strike it may not arrive until March.  How do I protect myself against not receiving item without negatively affecting the seller if it doesn't arrive within 30 days of the expected delivery date?

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PayPal (if you used them) gives you 180 days protection against INR.

[reveur*]

So I have a question if anyone can help

What happens in this case:

item is super delayed due to canada post strike. buyer opens up INR, wins the case, or I send a refund out of frustration. The item ends up getting to them in the end. Am I then able to collect my money again since the item has been delivered in the end? what is the procedure for this?

[momcqueen]

That’s what I want to know.

The Delivery Guarantee is suspended so does that mean we never get to claim back lost items? Or what. Or when?

Canada Post can only answer that.

[recped]

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@reveur* wrote:

So I have a question if anyone can help

What happens in this case:

item is super delayed due to canada post strike. buyer opens up INR, wins the case, or I send a refund out of frustration. The item ends up getting to them in the end. Am I then able to collect my money again since the item has been delivered in the end? what is the procedure for this?

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All you can do is hope you have a kind buyer who will agree to repay you. Nobody else can help you, not eBay, not PayPal and certainly not Canada Post.

[momcqueen]

Yes and no.

Under normal circumstances, if an item is not delivered after X number of days, Canada Post accepts responsibility for that and will refund the seller postage plus item value. That’s the reason senders use tracking and insurance.

The question now is when the Delivery Guarantee will be re-enforced and what it will entail.

That’s what we need Canada Post to answer. For all eBay sellers.

[hlmacdon]

Civil disobedience in action

[retroman_studios]

Unfortunately, in such a case, eBay policy would normally apply. However, due to the strike and backlog, eBay is allowing defects to be removed.

But an interesting note is that eBay was supposed to automatically extend "Not Received" cases for us. I have heard of at least one member who has already had a case escalate and customer got a refund.

So my advice: Keep an eye on your cases and be prepared to call eBay to protect your assets. Communication with clients will help too. Most reasonable folks when reminded of the delays at Canada Post will wait. Some lead busy lives and it may have slipped the mind.

[momcqueen]

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@reveur* wrote:

So I have a question if anyone can help

What happens in this case:

item is super delayed due to canada post strike. buyer opens up INR, wins the case, or I send a refund out of frustration. The item ends up getting to them in the end. Am I then able to collect my money again since the item has been delivered in the end? what is the procedure for this?

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This is what I want Canada Post to speak to us about in that panel discussion I proposed. 

tyler@ebay and @happy_pigeon

As to CUPW, I think the link posted connecting the newstory of footage of a Canada Post employee hurling a parcel up the steps is what I want to hear CUPW speak to. 

[tyler@ebay]

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@momcqueen wrote:

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@reveur* wrote:

So I have a question if anyone can help

What happens in this case:

item is super delayed due to canada post strike. buyer opens up INR, wins the case, or I send a refund out of frustration. The item ends up getting to them in the end. Am I then able to collect my money again since the item has been delivered in the end? what is the procedure for this?

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This is what I want Canada Post to speak to us about in that panel discussion I proposed. 

tyler@ebay and @happy_pigeon

As to CUPW, I think the link posted connecting the newstory of footage of a Canada Post employee hurling a parcel up the steps is what I want to hear CUPW speak to. 

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Thanks for the tag @momcqueen!

Hi @reveur* - hoping that that's just a hypothetical! We are allowing escalated INR cases to be put on an extra 15 day hold to allow for delivery of the item. I'd always suggest working with CS directly in the event you run into this situation. 

I can't give you a specific 'this is how it will always be' because we consider these types of situations out of the ordinary and would take it on a case by case basis. I would say that generally CS would allow as much time as necessary to allow for the delivery and if a refund was deemed appropriate after that waiting period we would work with you to get to an appropriate solution. 

If you choose to issue a refund to the buyer without involving us there wouldn't be a recourse we have for you if the item later shows up. We'd ask you to work with the buyer directly to arrange re-payment. 

Thanks!

[ricarmic]

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@momcqueen wrote:

This is what I want Canada Post to speak to us about in that panel discussion I proposed. 

tyler@ebay and @happy_pigeon

As to CUPW, I think the link posted connecting the newstory of footage of a Canada Post employee hurling a parcel up the steps is what I want to hear CUPW speak to. 

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Well, I think the postal situation continues to be a room full of hydrogen just waiting for a spark, happily jumped upon by social media, the news and even us!

There are many 1000s of CP employees delivering to doors every day. Footage of 0.0001% of the workforce treating a package poorly does not mean this is happening every where, or even is a new problem, I'm sure others have occurred before this, but they weren't newsworthy enough at the time to be noticed.

Last week I saw on the news someone pictured an Ariver delivery person sorting and storing the packages overnight in their vehicles in their apartment parking lot.

Canada post packages are supposed to be "built" to withstand a dead drop from 3 feet. The tumbling the package went through before it got to the persons house was probably somewhat worse than it got at the door, everything is machine handled in the sorting stations.

I think overreaction is being cultured, the papers want stuff that grab people, CP and the Union want things that make them look right.

We're stuck seeing hearing all of this and hoping stuff somehow still gets to where it needs to go within reasonable time.

I'm trying to keep my optimist hat on, I'm back to listing as much as I can and hoping for the best once it is in the mail stream.

So far, aside from having to change my custom wordings in my form letters to buyers, I have had no complaints from any buyers, no INRs, nor any cost to me, aside from the lost sales resulting from me throttling down my listings, which I regret (again, I should have remembered from the last strike ). Now I live in a (Stamp) world of hardened buyers (ie they've been used to mail order for a century now, and have survived many postal strikes) and maybe I'm lucky to be in an area less affected than others, and maybe I've just cursed myself by writing this.

I've said before the reality of the situation is most likely somewhere between the versions CP and the union are presenting, the news is the news as is social media, it picks things that get the most "views".

I do very much look forward to the situation a few weeks from now when this is hopefully behind us, because despite my optimist hat, I am worrying just like everyone else.....and I really have no idea how good/bad it is out there!

[reveur*]

Thanks for the clarification Tyler. I hope that doesnt turn out to be the case, my buyer has waited one month for their package already and the tracking doesn't show ANYTHING. I have contacted Canada Post and they have initiated an investigation into the parcel .We will see what happens. My buyer has been very nice and patient thus far, I am hoping she receives her parcel in the next two weeks as I sent it a month ago, just when rotating strikes were starting to happen. Sigh.

As for the canada post employee throwing the parcel, this isn't new. i've had several parcels smashed into my mailbox in the rain, left in the snow, torn up and even having big holes in them when left. now i use flex delivery for everything (they deliver parcels to your post office) and haven't had issues since. the issues im facing now are parcels not getting to me period, or being delivered to my buyers. 

I also talked to a lady from my local post office yesterday about this delay. there was a CP management personale present from one of the head CP offices, she told me the delay is only until March or sooner for international letter mail, unregistered parcels from Asia mostly. the delay here in canada and from the states is approx. 2 weeks behind. registered parcels from other countries still have priority, and while moving slower, it isnt too far off from the regular christmas season. granted, there is STILL a pretty big delay that will cause CP employees to work overtime to clear it. Mike sprouting his bs about parcels being cleared within one day was hyped up blah blah blah. 

I don't get union members now protesting and blocking CP trailer trucks. This won't do anything, just make everyone more angry. 

[momcqueen]

Good thing we can always count on ricarmic to be the sober voice of reason at our froth party. Always good points made, thank you.

I think tyler@ebay my question is for Canada Post specifically and it may be one that only Canada Post can offer. It's one thing for Canada Post to tell us (and we understand) that the Guaranteed Delivery dates are off the table in terms of enforceable but another matter entirely when a parcel vanishes into thin air. Is there still a point in which we can initiate a trace and have them look for it, or is it a matter of everyone throwing up their hands to the tune of 'unprecedented delay'? And, if so, what point is that? Ten days late? Or 20? From what kattaha is sharing of their experience, it seems like there is some understanding that parcels should still be somewhere Canada Post can find them even if they are late.

If ebay could ask Canada Post, 'At what point is a late parcel deemed actually 'missing' during unprecedented delays as a results of rotating postal strikes?' I think it would add value to our knowledge base for how to handle the inevitable Items Not Received queries sellers will be facing. And then what is that seller left in the limbo to do between extra-time-to-resolve-INRs at ebay and too-soon-to-be-declared-missing at Canada Post? Assuming they don't overlap.

[hlmacdon]

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@momcqueen wrote:

Good thing we can always count on ricarmic to be the sober voice of reason at our froth party. Always good points made, thank you.

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If only we could harness his powers and get him to train Che Guevara Jr in the art of reason.

As an aside, international incoming is still suspended, likely for several more weeks apparently.

[ricarmic]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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@momcqueen wrote:

Good thing we can always count on ricarmic to be the sober voice of reason at our froth party. Always good points made, thank you.

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If only we could harness his powers and get him to train Che Guevara Jr in the art of reason.

As an aside, international incoming is still suspended, likely for several more weeks apparently.

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HAHAHA if I could do that, I'd have to go out and buy a special suit to reflect my super powers!!!! 

[momcqueen]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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@momcqueen wrote:

Good thing we can always count on ricarmic to be the sober voice of reason at our froth party. Always good points made, thank you.

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If only we could harness his powers and get him to train Che Guevara Jr in the art of reason.

As an aside, international incoming is still suspended, likely for several more weeks apparently.

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Oh GREAT! The comments section on that video made my spit my coffee across my keyboard in astonished, unexpected laughter. Thanks for that. Ick. Hahhaha.