Scammed as seller

[canadiancardtrader]

i just started ebay about 6-7 weeks ago. i started selling on ebay to get rid of my pokemon card collection. long story short i didnt know how important tracking was and sold someone a card for 45$ a few weeks ago, they messaged me and told me their item was THREE days late and they want a full refund. i told them i couldnt do that because the post office is slow due to the pandemic plus they ordered the card 4 days before christmas so that probobly didnt help either. the guy got super angry called me a bunch of names and even told me to kill myself. i ignored him and let ebay review the situation for themself. he ended up getting a refund and im out the money now even though his anger would make it seem even if he got the card in the next few following days of his messages why would he resolve the issue. he most likely would just keep it and get his refund. also ebay didnt seem to care about the way he spoke to me and told me to kill myself. its a absolute joke that ebay can side with such buyers, i mean if it was a couple weeks late sure id refund him but THREE DAYS ?? and during the pandemic...PLUS the way he spoke
to me. i feel i got scammed and ebay doesnt care whatsoever and want to emphasize the importance of tracking so this doesnt happen to you ! its a lesson learned for sure but this whole thing has made my blood boil and will be taking a break from selling on ebay, maybe permanently.

[ericsells75]

There will be more experienced users who will add their wisdom to this thread but despite how the buyer acted they followed the rules. You as a seller have some responsibility to learn the platform and guidelines as well. I'd chalk this up to lesson learned.

[femmefan1946]

Tracking is a seller protection.  Perhaps our only one.

But it is also very expensive. Tracked Packet USA costs a minimum of $13.36 compared to $1.30-$3.19 for the same envelope shipped by LetterPost.

I'm assuming that your angry customer is in the USA. Canadian buyers are a bit calmer.

they messaged me and told me their item was THREE days late and they want a full refund.

They had that right.

i told them i couldnt do that because the post office is slow due to the pandemic plus they ordered the card 4 days before christmas so that probobly didnt help either.

While your reasoning is strong, your public relations was ..... inadequate.

You could have refunded immediately, you didn't want to.

I wouldn't want to either, but the result was...

the guy got super angry called me a bunch of names and even told me to kill myself.

Oh boy.

i ignored him and let ebay review the situation for themself.

I assume you mean he opened an Item Not Received dispute?

Now, here's the advice part.

Never make excuses, be sympathetic.  And if the last date for delivery has passed, encourage the buyer to open a Dispute.

The scammers probably won't. They don't want to be on eBay's radar. EBay will not allow the Money Back Guarantee to be misused.

You MUST respond to these Disputes.

You should have sent him a tracked return shipping label.

If he is in the USA, you can do that, using Shippo.

Are you signed up for a Solutions for Small Business account?

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpc/en/business/small-business.page?

You need one to open a Shippo account. Or to buy labels through Paypal or SnapShip(Canada Post). All three have discounts on some services.

And that label would be expensive-- easily half the price of the card.

https://postcalc.usps.com/Calculator/Index

he ended up getting a refund ... even though his anger would make it seem .... he most likely would just keep it and get his refund.

Yep.

He may already have had the card, noticed it was not tracked and opened the Dispute to get the refund.

also ebay didnt seem to care about the way he spoke to me and told me to kill myself.

Were you able to show a human representative the Messages? Sometimes that helps, although usually we are speaking with a minimum wage clerk in Utah , with only the vaguest idea that Hawai'i is a state, and no idea where Canada is. She has no authority at all.

It's why I usually recommend sticking with the Resolution Centre robots.  Less frustrating and usually the same results.

So.

• Don't sell your high value cards until you have at least 10 DSRs, know what DSRs are, and why they are unimportant.
• Use Tracking on anything above the price you can emotionally afford to lose. For some people that's $100.00 for others it's $5.00.

Tracking is expensive.

https://www.canadapost.ca/information/app/far/business/findARate?execution=e1s1

and using it may lose you some /many sales.

• You have to find a level between loss of product/payment and loss of sales.

A couple of notes on keeping customers happy.

If you are not tracking (I rarely do) leave FB on shipment and include the date of shipping plus the service used. My FB is "Thank you for your prompt payment Shipped 26/1/12 Canada Post Air Mail"

I don't say LetterPost because scammers are bright enough to know LP is not tracked.

I do say Canada Post to remind the buyer that I am not in the USA and delivery may be slower.

I use the international date again to remind US buyers that they are dealing with another country.

Responding to a Dispute may buy you another day or so. Don't count on that though.

I've found a late delivery concern can be soothed by encouraging the buyer to ask housemates if they have seen the envelope. Mine are noticeable, decorated with lots* of postage stamps.

Best wishes for a happy and healthy New Year.

*You can buy discounted mint postage on eBay.

[teenytrinkets]

Your risk of getting scammed or having picky buyers is slightly higher with selling collectibles... at least it's been my experience. I've been lucky my makeup buyers seem to be like the stamp buyers - a fairly honest community.

Anything you send out without tracking, you have to be willing to refund. I've lowered my threshold to around $30. I also won't sell anything outside of Canada for more than that, generally, as well, because return shipping is generally too expensive and hard to arrange. You may have to get your first SNAD from a US buyer to fully appreciate that one...

Do you use ChitChats? That's been a lifesaver for my small sales to the US!

[reallynicestamps]

Frauds, anger management, and sneaky practice do vary by category.

I'd never sell horse tack or dolls. Those are surprisingly fraught categories.

And anything that appeals to the "male, 15-35" demographic, be it sneakers or gaming, appeals to the demographic most likely to be in jail.

I have many gaming friends, although I don't game myself, and they really really want to win.

[travis7s]

Looks like you've quite a bit of good feedback selling cards so you're doing a good job. There is always going to be a few bad apples when you do business so you just have to prepare for it.

One thing that I do now is set all of my shipping options to "Economy" regardless of how I ship it. This means that US buyers have to wait at least 45 days (I think) before they can file a late dispute. Doesn't really seem to affect my sales and nobody can scam me due to Covid lateness. So far it has worked fairly well.

If you can, try to get a head start and ship everything out ASAP because this is the only thing you can control. I ship everything same day as long as my post office is still open, otherwise next day.

[travis7s]

One other tip. I always snap a quick photo of the packages/letters before I take them to the post office. While this won't help you win an eBay case, I find it often helps calm reasonable buyers and just politely explain that the postal service is slow and if they could please wait a little longer.

[teenytrinkets]

Yes! The photo of the item helps A LOT! I'm convinced I've avoided INRs 95% of the time by the photo alone, and it's even better than that if accompanied by an apology that it's taking so long, assurance that it was sent right away, a kind request for continued patience, and the promise of a follow-up. That really may seem to be a lot of handholding, but to me that's just human decency. Think about what you'd expect as a buyer and act accordingly.

I've even managed to turn potential SNADs into more sales, by offering a future credit, if the buyer doesn't want a return or a partial refund. And then positive feedback!

I even had a SNAD where the buyer paid for half the shipping, because we realized we shared an equal miscommunication.

I'm convinced the best sellers on eBay are also avid buyers on eBay (and vice-versa). And I think this group lends themselves credibility by proudly using the same account to both buy and sell. And posting on forums. We all know who we are, right? 😉

[darak10]

Im really disappointed to read a couple of the responses of some longer term sellers on here telling you willy nilly you're in the wrong for this.  Thats absolutely ridiculous.  What brand of glue were the folks you dealt with that day huffing when they decided to refund a guy because he got an item three days late?  I've never had anyone make such an outlandish request, and if they did, you'd better believe I'd be raising one heck of a stink about it.  How many different ways can you say "scam"?  In this instance, the "returns" process was abused to allow you to be ripped off, pure and simple.  You are out your card, and your money.  That's called theft, and its called wire fraud.  

Yes, maybe you should have sent this with tracking, but now at least you've learned you cant always trust in the goodness of others.  I've been burned sure, its not a fun lesson.  But blaming you for this, just because you didnt know?  Blaming the victim in a situation like this is as inappropriate as it is completely unacceptable.  

Bottom line is this: disreputable people do what they think they can get away with.  As a noob, he probably thought he'd take a spin at trying to rip you off this way.  He won, and ebay let him get away with it.   

Shameful.   How does anyone deserve a free item because its three days late?  They don't.... EVER.

Sellers have to support one another on here, not undermine each other by only quoting the letter of the law.   Makes me wonder why the spirit of rules over situations like this - be an honest person and dont abuse the returns process - is so unimportant it was entirely neglected here. 

I have to say from my personal experience on here years ago, the poorest quality of sellers and buyers on here are in the collectible sports and non sports card areas.  Way too many scam artists, way too many people misrrepresenting their items, way too many stunts like this, way too many verbally abusive folks with atrocious people skills like this fellow.  I stopped buying and selling these items years ago for that reason, so be cautious and protect yourself in the process via tracking on higher end items.  

And no, while you may be left holding the bag in situations like this, the responsibility for someone else acting disreputably is on them, and them alone, whether or not those in power to change the outcome are going to hold them accountable or not.  

[jt-libra]

I'm so sorry to hear that this happened to you.   It's happened to all of us at one time or another and it's very upsetting and even makes you wonder whether you should continue selling.  You've received a lot of good advice in the responses which might help you avoid this issue in future.  However,  given how rude and impatient this buyer was,  I'm pretty sure he would have found a way to get his money back even if he had received it on time, claiming that it wasn't as described or something like that.

I have to agree with @darak10  (although I wouldn't have used the same language about the sellers who offered advice) in that I don't think that this dispute should have automatically been settled in favour of the buyer.  I would have pushed the issue with eBay, emphasizing that even they were telling all buyers to be patient and expect some delivery delays, coupled with the fact that the buyer used extremely abusive language.  You still may not have won but you might have felt better that you stated your case.  I went through the same thing ... only in my case, the guy filed a dispute the day after the expected date of delivery and I lost the case, and the item.

Notwithstanding the fact that Covid, together with the Holiday Season, delayed deliveries, three days late at any time of the year and under any circumstances, should not translate into an automatic refund but, unfortunately, depending on who is adjudicating the dispute (and I use that word loosely), maybe more like glancing at the dispute, there often is no interest in looking further into it or considering the seller's comments. 

I think maybe the best piece of advice offered is to ensure that you select Economy International Shipping for non-Canadian shipments.  I checked a couple of your sold listings and saw that you had selected "Canada Post USA Letter-post" with estimated delivery of 7-21 business days, whereas "Economy Int'l Shipping" allows for 12-36 business days, giving you a little more protection.

Ever since I started selling, I've always sent the buyer an e-mail, addressing them by name, thanking them for their purchase and letting them know how many business days it "normally" takes for lettermail/packages/expedited parcels shipped from Winnipeg to arrive at their locale.  In recent months, I've thanked them in advance for their patience should there be a couple of days delay since Canada Post/USPS are dealing with so many challenges related to Covid.  I find that buyers appreciate this communication and I believe it creates good-will.  But a bad buyer is a bad buyer and an impatient buyer, etc. etc.

Anyway, I hope you're not going to stop selling.  And any time you need to vent when you've had a bad experience, come back here.  We've all had bad experiences and we can sympathize.  Good luck! 

[darak10]

there's also something you could try I just thought of that I've read about recently on the reddit ebay page - the ebay business page on facebook.  American sellers I have read use this to address disputes like yours where they feel like they have been treated unfairly or that a ruling was made that they feel was unjust for whatever reason.  They apparently just go on ebay business's facebook page, state the facts of their case, and voila! people respond, and stuff happens.  I read about a case the other day where a fellow with a lot less black or white situation than yours (it involved a similar claim where the buyer was refunded and the seller was still out the item) claimed to have had a judgment reversed and was returned the money that was originally refunded to the buyer after a dispute was escalated.  

Your situation is about as black & white as it gets, the guy admitted to receiving the item AND kept the money, AND the item.   That's, as I said, theft as well as fraud.  Tracking is a red herring in this case as he admitted getting the item, a more adept con artist would have never admitted receiving it.  I dont see why you cant have this decision reversed based on his admission of receipt of the item.  

I would push back on this, big time.   

[beeba63]

I’d like to add to the other responses you’ve received: I’m assuming the buyer messaged you using eBay. Contact eBay support and let them know of the buyer’s unacceptable behaviour towards you. Name calling and telling you to go kill yourself is harassment/bullying that you do not have to put up with. 

If you haven’t already done so, block this buyer ASAP. 

[marnotom!]

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@canadiancardtrader wrote:

to me. i feel i got scammed and ebay doesnt care whatsoever and want to emphasize the importance of tracking so this doesnt happen to you ! 

---

Keep in mind that if you send your item tracked and your buyer files a claim for an item not received, you still won't prevail in the claim if the tracking doesn't show that the item has been delivered to the buyer's location.  Tracking might buy you a bit of extra time to resolve the claim given that the world's gone sideways, but ultimately, no online evidence of delivery = refund for the buyer, no matter how the item is shipped.  That's why there's insurance.

[Anonymous]

That's what's happens to most sellers they just leave. Trust me if they want it for free and you provided tracking theres other ways for them to dupe you. Best practice is to contact the buyer before shipping and advise of extended deliverys and keep your fingers crossed.

[Anonymous]

Omg you hit the nail on the head with one. I started listings games and within the first month removed them. I'm even hesitant about selling horror movies now same thing but not as bad.

[teenytrinkets]

Yup... I've been scammed with games more than anything!

[mrdutch1001]

Unfortunately, being a seller on eBay and perhaps on some other sites as well, requires a very thick skin as there are indeed buyers out there that can be very nasty, but to avoid stressing over things of which you have no control requires good seller skills and much of that comes from learning as you go and experience, lots of seller experience. eBay is all about the buyer and there is not a whole lot of seller support on eBay anymore, so sellers who don't have a lot of experience with this site will often find themselves disheartened, frustrated and not knowing which way to turn.

New sellers often don't know the high risk categories that should be avoided when starting out as a seller, so when they list/sell in these categories, they soon find themselves knee deep in problems.

At this point, I'd certainly block the buyer to avoid any future encounters. Sometimes as a new seller, it is also wise to only sell/ship within Canada, then expand to USA, and only after gaining  more experience, ship beyond North America.

[dk.wilson]

Yes ebay is a scam only helping the top sellers and not the little buyers and sellers I'm having issues with a item that I didn't receive

[kh-leslie]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.