Copyright Question -How are people selling Efiles of Out of Print Manuals? ie Lego /Sewing Machines

[watermelonmemories2005]

Hi - My thought for today - I was just pricing some 1990's original in my hand Lego Instruction Manuals and see numerous people selling E-Copies ...  I also set aside a 1940's sewing machine manual that I found, as I saw the same thing there. Great idea for on-going income .. But how can this be legal? I can see an old appliance manual perhaps - but surely Lego or Parker Brothers even would care about these things??  - These are -out of print - retired - manuals -

Thanks for a short reply - Melanie

[ypdc_dennis · Accepted solution]

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@watermelonmemories2005 wrote:

... I was just pricing some 1990's original in my hand Lego Instruction Manuals and see numerous people selling E-Copies ...  I also set aside a 1940's sewing machine manual that I found, as I saw the same thing there. Great idea for on-going income ... But how can this be legal?

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Legal depends on where in the world you are (and when rights expire).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries%27_copyright_lengths

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In theory: PDF files of product manuals or user guides that you don't own the copyright of or you aren't authorized to resell by the owner, the owner's authorized agent, or the law are NOT ALLOWED.

In practice: eBay will only deal with a listing if (a) the copyright owner decides to enforce their rights or (b) if the seller is reported for breaking the eBay requirements for a digital listing. https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/digitally-delivered-goods-policy?id=4...

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[watermelonmemories2005 · Accepted solution]

Awesome Thank you -so much research, so little time as a one woman band!! Hoping one day to hire a girl/ boy friday to Research prices and Set up my listings better! Many Many Kudos for these links!- Melanie

[momcqueen]

Practically every manual for every set LEGO has ever produced is available online as a pdf, either by LEGO itself or from AFOLs who devote their lives to these things. This is one area LEGO doesn't worry itself over. Their instructions are freely given as digital downloads to anyone who wants them. A person still needs bricks to use them, that's where the money is made. 

I'm not saying your instruction books have no value. To the contrary. I don't like giving an iPad to my seven-year-old to view PDFs on even LEGO's site because I'm trying to minimize his screentime. Ditto for the six- and four-year-olds. I always go to the hard copy LEGO booklets or books if we have it. Always. 

[watermelonmemories2005]

Thank You - There does seem to be some collectors also looking for mint condition specimens -just need to factor the time/ sale price ratio!

[femmefan1946]

There is obviously a question of copyright.

But if the company is out of copies (even online copies ) of a manual for a sewing machine produced in the 1940's (some 70 years ago), it may be cheaper for them to allow entrepreneurs to make them available than to pay an employee to deal with the once a year enquiry.

As long as the eFiles are sold under Classified, which has very little Seller Protection, and the copyright holder doesn't complain, eBay is fine with it.

[watermelonmemories2005]

Makes Sense - My Mom is a Canadian Author with 10 books so thus was more aware than most of Copyright existence. These comments are awesome - Probably cannot accept more than one as a solution though?? I'll figure it out - Then Clone myself. I have definately set aside the old sewing machine manuals to copy before selling the original -to be helpful to the world at large of course! -but alas next I have to learn about creating file PDF's and burning copies and everything else ...

[cumos55]

Some sellers have collected published information, documents, or books  where the copyright has expired and have sold CD's  with copies of  these documents..     A good source of historical documents.  

Sellers have to be careful because a copyright can be renewed 

Things can get "difficult" where a copyright expires, and then get renewed.

People can sell copies of the original document.... but not of a document where the copyright was renewed.

An example ---  An Eatons catalogue from 1901 is not in a copyrighted format.   It was published as a book in 1992, and was copyrighted.

The original catalogue from 1901 can be copied, but the 1992 publication is protected with a copyright.

Some sellers of books focus on the publication of old copyrighted books....  sold with permission of the original publisher who owns the copyright.

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A unique cook book was published over a series of 18 times with 20,000 books per series for a total of 360,000 books.  This book is highly desirable and is kept in a family and transferred from generation to generation.

The author stated no more books in her will... and no more books were publication.   The copyright  in relation to the author's statement in the will cannot be violated.  More books can be published when  the copyright expires  many decades in the future.

[cumos55]

One has to look through a book to see if there is a copyright statement....

Many manuals were never copyrighted.

One must have permission to print and sell a "book" that was copyrighted.

.....Copyright typically expires 50 to 100 years after the author dies

[maddkatt06]

I know for sewing patterns unless its part of the public domain now its a copyright issue but the company that made the pattern needs to be the one to file the complaint. If the pattern is so old the company no longer exists it may be a grey area. The funny thing is that most of these old vintage patterns people are selling pdfs of on here and etsy are available online for FREE you just have to look. 

not much you can do about it, the only way they will learn what they're doing is actually wrong is for them to get caught. Until then all you can do is just not buy from those people I guess