Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

It's a very basic concept.

 

Message 1 of 15
latest reply
14 REPLIES 14

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

Tread carefully folks. Just may be a trick question hidden inside there, somewhere.

Message 2 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

I was (posting as RNS) having another of those moments when the sheer illiteracy of posters with problems overcame me. Is there a connection between the inability to explain clearly a problem and having the problem in the first place?

 

Aaaand, I think I just answered my own question.

 

 

I don't mind when the poster is obviously using her second language, but lordy lordy, if I didn't sell vintage postcards, and thus understand that it was ever thus, I would despair over the literacy of Canadian born adults.

Message 3 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

"I would despair over the literacy of Canadian born adults."

 

Actually you should.

 

As you may know, I was involved at the board level with Quinte Literacy, a non-profit agency helping those in needs of basic literacy and numeracy skills. Things are real bad out there.  Millions of adult Canadians (all age groups) never achieved basic reading or writing skills.  Yet the problem is largely ignored by governments at all levels who count on volunteers to do the job.

Message 4 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?


@pierrelebel wrote:

"Things are real bad out there."  


Your work with a volunteer literacy group is commendable, and necessary despite our supposed universal education system.  

 

Now, you probably know I am a linguist, or at least I was originally trained as such.  Languages were my business for many years and I see problems where other people see perfectly normal everyday speech.  I just can't help myself, like a musician who hears a false note, and it drives my husband crazy.  

 

Therefore, forgive me for saying that I hope the quote above was in jest on your part in the context of your post.  We all know that "bad" is an adjective that can only be modified by an adverb, right?  That would be as in: "Things are really bad out there."   Were you pulling our legs, or just testing to see if I'd pop up?  If the joke is actually on me for being such a fusspot stickler, that's OK! Woman Very Happy

Message 5 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

I have a different outlook here and the same .. I am horrible for typing errors and using the wrong spelling of a word even though I know better It just happens because well I don't care but look at it this way ..

 

If everyone was writing novels and had 100% scores in University who would build your home or weld you cars ...

 

Alot of These people you speak of Can do alot more things alot better then people who have a literacy issue on there hands...

 

I mean really one day if the world **bleep**s the bed .. The guy who can properly say come here fishy fishy is not going to be the one who gets to still eat 3 square meals a day and the guy who can properly explain how to build a house will not be the guys building a house ...

 

Grammar is very important when needed and when needed I will make sure mine is tip top but otherwise I can build you home from foundation to plumbing and elecritcal.. I can fix almost every porblem a vehicle can have ..For me in my life knowing how to build my home is alot more useful then knowing how to properly type a paragraph about building a home ...

 

Then there are others who live off the world of literacy and knowing what I know won't do nothing for them .. **bleep** for tat ..

 

Femme probably wants to poke his eyes out when reading half of what I write but I bet I would poke my eyes out trying to watch femme build a home without instructions ... MAYBE NOT JUST SAYING .. I obviously don't personally know you maybe you can build the empire state building LOL

 

Cheers to everyone because if we were all the same the world would not go around ...

Message 6 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

I never did well in school when it came to writing... that is using proper English.....

 

Or more specifically what the teacher said was proper English...

 

My mark for first year University English was so low  ..  very, very, very low.... that was more interpretation ... based on teacher's view.... as opposed to "proper English" 

 

Yet since then I have written so much... and in proper English....  I suspect those old language teachers of mine are turning over in their graves.... how can he do it?

 

Language was not my big one... but I knew how to spell, and how to put a sentence together, how to put a paragraph together, in a proper manner.

 

Maybe I am different than most... but when It came to doing things... I knew how, or could read and learn how to do it..

 

Make repairs around the house, build a fence, build a deck  and then a shed... a Cadillac of a shed....

 

Repair furniture, refinish furniture, reupholster..

 

I grew up in an Urban/ rural (farm) environment... and I learned many different things  that a farmer must know....  I knew what had to be done,  and if necessary  I could do it.

 

I learned as I grew up  and if necessary I could still do it....... and in many instances  I could still do it if necessary.... or learn how to do it...

 

and today I sell on eBay... and how do you explain... in eleven years of selling...

 

I have never... that is correct.... I have never bough anything... not even one thing on eBay

 

 

 

If someone ....wants to do it .... they can do it... and will do it the right way....  No excuses

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 7 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?


@brandeentertainment wrote:

 

If everyone was writing novels and had 100% scores in University who would build your home or weld you cars ...

Alot of These people you speak of Can do alot more things alot better then people who have a literacy issue on there hands...

 


'brande', you're absolutely right!  The world needs a variety of people with a variety of skills.  I've always thought that being a poet or novelist was less honourable in many ways than doing something like building a house or constructing furniture.  Still, there are "writer people" who also have practical skills -- I like to think I'm one of them.  I have a lot of practical skills you might not expect of a linguist/bookworm type.

 

It's important to recognize the difference though between proper use of grammar, spelling and structure (which even linguists have argued against, believe it or not!) and the problem of basic literacy.  The former isn't really too much of a drawback in life (unless you're planning to be a lawyer), but the latter can be a devastating handicap for people who are otherwise bright and talented, because advancement in most fields, even in the trades, requires at least solid reading comprehension, and some basic writing ability. 

 

Unfortunately even in our Canadian school system, a lot of kids, for various reasons, get left behind in learning the basics of reading and writing (and arithmetic), and as adults this shortcoming can be both limiting and embarrassing.  I personally think that the educational system is largely to blame for turning away from a focus on certain essential rote learning, but that's another subject. 

 

Volunteering to help people achieve an acceptable level of literacy (and numeracy) is a wonderful thing to do.  Literacy opens up a whole world for people who had been shut out because of their "handicap", and makes attaining new skills possible.  It also introduces them to the pure pleasure of reading.   I've taught ESL and I can tell you I've seen the faces light up when people suddenly realize they can understand what they're reading.  It's a beautiful thing.

 

As for buyers' reading comprehension on eBay, well, I think that's a different problem, in my view borne of too much instantaneous stimulation from too many sources turning people (especially the young) into ADD sufferers en masse. 

Message 8 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

I don't mind spelling errors or even grammatical errors (well, that's a lie, I do mind them but...) what drives me nuts is the inability of people to explain what is the actual problem. Or even the porblem.

 

Not knowing, apparently, if the writer is the buyer or the seller. Unable to give the sequence of events or read a list of events and understand the sequence. Unable to understand that a person may agree with the writer on his basic arguement, but have a different take on why something is what it is.

 

And of course, that old favourite, "You don't agree with me, so you must work for eBay!" Actually , that guy would be calling it FeeBay or PreyPal or the International Liberal Conspiracy.

 

I doubt I could build a house, but I can fix a toilet, frame a wall, install drywall (but not finish it), design a woodstove installation to code and install it, and sew a dress from a Vogue pattern. 

Message 9 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?


@reallynicestamps wrote:

I don't mind spelling errors or even grammatical errors (well, that's a lie, I do mind them but...) what drives me nuts is the inability of people to explain what is the actual problem. Or even the porblem.

 

1) Unable to give the sequence of events or read a list of events and understand the sequence.

 

2) [...]  and sew a dress from a Vogue pattern. 


1)  This actually made me LOL!   Imagine spending over 15 years in jobs that involved trying to elicit a clear and chronological chain of events out of people for the purpose of litigation files.  I can't tell you how many clients I had to interview who couldn't seem to understand the meaning of the words "facts" and "events", let alone put them in order ("OK, let's start over again from the beginning"). 

 

2)  Whoaaaa!!  Do I have some patterns for you!

Message 10 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

I actually find in my life most book worms are not the handy type BUT BUT the ones that are actually fair better then most due to comprehenstion skills...

 

Example my boss is a literature type of guy .. 95 + grade school/highschool and college .. Reads about a 700 page book every 2 days ... speak and writes in 3 languages ... This guys super handy because he is good with his hands and his comprehensive skills are above par...

 

Then you take guy like my grandfather .. Could not read or write other then his name ..... He was the plumber,electirician and all around handy man for the town I grew up in .. This man could fix anything and I mean anything but who could not read the instructions or draw a blue print..

 

Personally I wish I would have paid a little more attention in English class but I am ADHD so English class was more like a torture chamber ...Not to mention my english teacher in highschool was abuot as ignorant and mean as they get so when she made a few girls cry from screaming and I got up in front of glass and told her she was a miserable  and should have a little respect for people I spent my next 2 years doing my english and grammar from indoor suspension LOL

 

My daddy always raised me right and you do not for no reason ever be mean to girls aka women .. You either say something nice or just walk away so when my teacher made these 14 year old girls ball there head up I lost my **bleep** and ruined my chances at having a teacher for english for 2 years LOL

Message 11 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

This man could fix anything and I mean anything but who could not read the instructions or draw a blue print..

 

Unfortunately, that is no longer the case.  Nowadays, we have decided that you need a licence to be a plumber or an electrician - possibly for safety reasons.  It is difficult to get that licence without being able to read and write - and comprehend. 

My grandfather was a brilliant man.  Well educated and highly literate.  Yet, he built a yacht in the 40's that still is a marvel to this day.  It is a classic of mahogany and teak.  He did everything himself including the engine and all the cabinetry.  The yacht is now owned by a millionaire in Vancouver.  Its equal does not exist today.

 

There is a simple reason for the decline in literacy - social media.  Facebook, Twitter and email (and all their other incarnations) have reduced us to a form of short hand.  On Twitter, you have to express yourself in 140 characters or less (or so I am told - as a non-user).  People are forever LOL or ROFLMAO.  These abbreviations are becoming a part of our language - even appearing in dictionaries.  We are rushing toward a time when the English language will become almost a dead language, replaced by computer-speak.  It will be kept alive by a few dusty old scholars hidden away in a basement somewhere.  I was going to say in the basement of a library but whose may not exist for much longer.

 

I am a book worm.  I learned from my mother who averaged more than a book a day.  I love reading and I love the feel of a good book in my hands.  It is comforting and reminds me of more innocent times.  That said, I can build almost anything and I am good with my hands.  Most of it was learned in books.  Books are great educators on any topic.

 

Another thing that is disappearing is the art of conversation.  When I think of all the wonderful conversations I have had in my life time and am still having - I am ecstatic.  This morning, while chatting with friends in the local coffee spot, I marvelled at four teenage girls.  All four were busy texting - each other.  Scary.  But then I am an old dude who knows better than to start a sentence with "but".  My English teacher is rolling over in her grave.

 

 

Message 12 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?


@puckstopshere wrote:

 

There is a simple reason for the decline in literacy - social media.  Facebook, Twitter and email (and all their other incarnations) have reduced us to a form of short hand. 


I read your post with a great deal of interest.  From the viewpoint of a trained linguist and writer, I tend to look at the current transformation of English that we're witnessing as a bizarre sort of accelerated process of language metamorphosis.  By that I mean that technology is speeding up (and making almost universal) what might otherwise be a gradual change over perhaps decades, if not centuries.  Interestingly it's not just English that is quickly evolving, but it is the main object of pressure, being the world's lingua franca. 

 

The Industrial Revolution had a similar though much more dilated effect on English in making conventions of speech, writing, spelling and grammar almost mandatory, which in turn demanded the creation of a more consistent basic education system.  Worldwide trade, and the expansion of the British Empire, required a common understanding, a linguistic currency that most users could easily comprehend.  There's little use in efficient international commerce if no one can agree on how to communicate, or conversely if people waste too much time trying to understand each other. 

 

The evolution of language (again, from a purely linguistic standpoint) isn't a bad thing in itself; in fact no worse than natural physical evolution.  It's usually an interesting and organic process that can be studied in slow motion over half a century or more.  However today we're in danger of very quickly descending into a world of English speakers who can only communicate via electronics, either via internet "shorthand" typed on keyboards, or via voice. I agree with you that books -- those wonderful, physically and mentally satisfying things -- will soon become as obsolete as pencil and paper. 

 

These days I meet the occasional youngster (i.e. under 25) who is unable to read cursive handwriting.  The next generation may struggle with being able to read and write the printed word correctly.  If technology then fails, how will they communicate? 

 

I sometimes wonder whether the accomplishments of our civilization that do not get recorded in books or by another physical means will even be accessible to future civilizations without the technology that created it.  Just think of trying to find the right gadget to play an old 8-track recording today.  Yes, so far we've managed to develop means of converting and upgrading, but that ability may not always exist in the future.  Our combined, accumulated knowledge can probably soon be stored in a closet-sized computer, but it could also vanish permanently without all the technology to support it.  It exists in less than thin air.

 

Written language, perhaps only second to the mastery of fire, was man's greatest achievement.  It's the reason we can still read Plato, Socrates, and all the rest, including the bible.  Here I'm not referring to a particular language, but the act of committing ideas to a coherent written system that can be preserved and read centuries or millennia later. 

 

How ironic to imagine that more than 6,000 years of development of the written language and its precious preservation through various civilizations might be shattered in a few decades by advanced technology.  Now there's classic Greek hubris! 

 

As an aside, I'm fascinated by your story about the boat.  Is there a chance that boat was one of the "Winsome" series that won many races in the 50's?  I owned one of them briefly a long, long time ago and in faraway Vancouver, when it was rundown and in need of a lot of care and elbow grease to make it the beauty it once was.

 

Incidentally, I can say with some authority that your English teacher was simply rigidly following the accepted code of grammar set out by Victorian era school authorities when she laid down the law concerning the word "but" at the beginning of a sentence.  But -- she was dead wrong from a linguistic and stylistic perspective!  It's the same kind of argument music teachers use, and of course there's merit in it when you're teaching a 10 year old.  It doesn't quite hold water though for someone who has learned technique and needs to bend the rules for the sake of expressiveness or emphasis.  Just ask Mozart (or James Joyce).

 

Great having a "convo" with you!  LOL Woman Happy

Message 13 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

My English teacher put her nose in the air to everyone and was very ignorant so I hope she is in her grave ...

 

I by no mean meant people who are extremly literate are not handy it was more like a generalization which is been the case for many many year Auditory,Visual,Kinesthetic Learners ...  I AM Visual

 

I mean My family is not big on education but were all college educated and I know how to spell and I have decent grammar but I have no passion for it ..

 

The book that excites you is how I feel when I smell a fresh cut piece of lumber or the feeling I get when I just saved my self 5000 by replacing or fixing my transmission on my car ..

 

I think this topic is to each there own and sometimes your location matters ... For example where I live if you are highly qualified and educated ilike an PHD in English literature you will either end up hopefully getting 1 of the 10 jobs available for that type of work in my old town of 10,000 people but if you are a good backyard plumber, machanic, or have trades skill your laughing but when you get to cities for people like Rose Dee jobs are easier to come by in there field ...

 

Most of the time I have found from my own experience it is the bad students or the less educated ADD students that excel as mechanic,carpenter etc. the ones that don't need to be shown or told or read how to do it they just simply excel in anything to do with hands on work..  

 

That is like My wife and I .. She is very well educated and a smart cookie... I Excel in Math and that is it .. But without google or anyones help or a how to book I fill figure anything out ... Like example last year I replaced my transmission in my car and had never done it before and did not have a clue but I just did it and bam perfect job  ...

 

It's like Rewiring my old house .. Never hook new breakers or anything of the sort only ran some simple wiring before ... I disconnected the power to my house and 3 days later my entire house was rewired with a new 200 amp service then My Electrician friend came over certified it and gave me **bleep** for hooking everything up (Illegal)  ...

 

Then there are those times where I have to do something I hate to do and that is when My wife like you guys helps to have around because if I get confused or screw up she just reads the instructions where me looking at a buch of writing that say A goes to B c goes to G loosen K and tighten B now Angel ABC and reverse K and P  I just Light it on fire and do the job maybe I have to step back a few times but I get it done and perfectly  or My wife will catch my mistake by reading..

 

Now a days knowing to read and write is Very important but I could not begin to tell you how many uneducated succesfull millionaire highschool dropouts there are in this world because whether your good with your hands or book smart it is always the person who shuts up and does it that ends up being the better one..

 

Education is not as important is they make it seem  .. now there is a college course to collect Garbage ... REALLY .. Can you say money grab .. I am not a Garbage man I am a Licensed Waste Technician LOL

 

My sister inlaw phd english major and teacher degree working at boston pizza and 1 day a week substiute teacher and 3 years after her 80,000 of schoool debt she is still not a teacher or putting any of her education to use Well my Brother whom wasted his time taqking police foundation because as he said he knew it was  a bird course is now making a BIG 6 figure salay 10,000 yeary bonus 5 weeks holiday as a Futureshop District Manager in training with no school debt  by times my sister in law gets in her field and pays off her education she will have to make about .5 million a year to catch up to my brother ( Just throwing random numbers out there

 

Then again there is my sister in law well educated and well off due to my brother and her hard work in school  and there is the highscool drop out pan handling on the sidewalk ..

 

The world is always only 1 natural disaster or 1 nuclear bomb away from going back to the stone age which I do not tend to ever think like that but it is true and if that does ever happen My vote it for the people that just can and not the people that need to read how to but by no means will I say that now in this day and age I think it varies on where you live ...

 

I have also feel the most important skill a person can ever have  is to feed and shelter themselves with nothing more then a backpack with some trinkets no grocery stores no money ..   

 

FYI and LOL I hate cell phone and texting it takes away from life and what use to be interaction with real people and society ..

 

There is no decline in literacy from my grandparents time just an increase in BS  out of whack studies and polls being done .. 1 Poll Shows that 80% of all polls and studies are BS so it that study or poll correct ? LOL  

 

Also My Grandparents and yours were all good with doing anything educated or not because they had to do which has changed now .. Now if you wanna just be good at grammar you can become a millionaire or if you just wanna be a handy harworking guy you can become a millionaire...

 

Someone who learns through reading will most likely never excel at certain things like someone who learns by doing and the other way around and that is general knowledge that I tend to agree with but if you are a double threat GOOD ON ya there is nothing better then being good at both sides just not to often do you see it ....

 

 

 

Message 14 of 15
latest reply

Why is it so difficult for posters to explain if they are the buyer or the seller?

My daddy always raised me right and you do not for no reason ever be mean to girls aka women .. You either say something nice or just walk away so when my teacher made these 14 year old girls ball there head up I lost my **bleep** and ruined my chances at having a teacher for english for 2 years LOL

 

You remind me so much of my father!  He would never allow us kids to talk back to our mother because, as he told us in later years, he "didn't have a mother to talk back to".  She passed away when he was 9 years old.

 

My father was a bookworm but was not well educated.  With grade 9 education, hard work and the assistance of an electrical inspector who moved onto our street he managed to obtain his electrician's license just before the law was changed requiring a minimum of grade 10 to obtain the license.  He began on his own and eventually hired up to 5 men.  His business was always operated from our home.  At the age of 55 he sold his business and semi-retired.  Before he was 60 he was fully retired and spent 6 months of the year in Florida.  How things have changed in the workplace today!

 

I am also a reader, loved English and have always been a perfectionist when it comes to language.  I have loosened up considerably, though, since I started selling on eBay.  I guess what I read on the boards is rubbing off on me (oh, no!!).  But I do love this quote from Sir Winston Churchill on grammar......

 

“Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.”

 

No matter how corny it would sound, when I wrote letters I would never end a sentence with a preposition.  I would if I was talking to someone but not in the written word!

 

DH was never a reader until recently but he has been volunteering for the Reading Assistance Programme at our grandsons' public school for about 3 years.  He works with Grade 1 students and absolutely loves it!  He is great with children and I can see the joy and pride he feels for these kids when they move from one level of reading to the next.   They have a few volunteers and treat them well.  There is a huge need for them. 

 

DH and I do have our favourite Archie Bunker type words that we have heard people use over the years.  Our most favourite expression came from a fellow describing something on a Hummer as being an "obstacle illusion".

 

And with that I will end this post, sort of.

Woman Wink 

Message 15 of 15
latest reply