eBay

musicyouneed · ‎10-21-2016

I went out for breakfast and there were no seats so I asked to sit down with a guy who looked like he was almost finished. We got to talking and he was on his phone trying to purchase something on ebay. I told him that I sold on ebay and so our conversation got started.

He stated he had a couple of bad experiences recently and I asked him about it. He said that he had ordered 4 things (all the same), 2 from 1 seller in California on Oct 10 and 2 from 2 other sellers on the same day. The 2 from the other sellers arrived on Oct 14 and the 2 from the other seller did not arrive until Oct 19. They were all being sent to his address in the US so there were no customs issues. What he was upset about was the fact that ebay told him he would receive it by Oct 17 and it arrived Oct 19. He was going to give the seller negative feedback because he was supposed to receive it by Oct 17, he was blaming the seller.

I asked him who told him that he would receive it by Oct 17, was it the seller and he said that it was ebay. I explained that ebay gives an estimated delivery based on what type of shipping the seller was using and that those were extremely tight and somewhat unrealistic. I also explained that once it is put in the mail, the seller loses control and shouldn't be blamed for all the delays. I also asked him about the sellers handling time and he said he didn't look at that.

I think that those dates that ebay provides to the buyer create an unrealistic expectation of something arriving by a certain date and that if it doesn't arrive by that date, it has created a negative experience for the buyer. Why would you want to create such a negative experience for them, they may not come back. I sent a CD from Vancouver to Victoria and it took 5 working days, I could have walked there faster.

i.am.vivian · ‎10-21-2016

Amen! Thanks for posting that.

momcqueen · ‎10-21-2016

As a buyer and seller both, I agree that Delivery Estimates are a big deal.

We need them to be realistic. There have been countless times where I have counted on something being delivered when it was said it would be delivered and then it was not and things became uncomfortable for me since, as a purchaser, I had not met the timelines I needed it for. But since I am a seller, I am then very careful to check and see where it went off the rails. Was it delayed by the carrier? Or was it delayed because the seller din't handle it within the stated amount of time.

I wouldn't expect most buyers to spend that much time thinking about it.

Extended unreasonably a delivery estimate does no one any good. (I wish ebay's estimates for Expedited Parcel actually noted how many business days it should take between postal codes.) Too generous an estimate might cover a seller's butt when it comes to not disappointing the buyer if it arrives a day late but then it could also turn-off other buyers who need it sooner and would probably get it sooner. Too optimistic a delivery estimate and you've got a buyer angry because they wanted it sooner than it actually arrived because of a carrier delay.

Thank you, nonetheless, for taking the time to explain this to an ebay buyer! The seller in question will probably not ever know what favour you did for him.

zee-chan · ‎10-23-2016

I hope your conversation saved the seller who was gonna neg'ed (and perhaps get late delivery defect) for two days late. Sometimes I do find that Vancouverites complain a lot and takes a lot of things for granted... I do work in a place where I could hear people (be it my co-workers or "clients") complain about things in general all the time and it's tiring just listening to them. Even the board here you read a lot of complaints...

And eBay obviously doesn't listen to us sellers. We have told eBay numerous time that their delivery estimate is overly optimistic and we end up with late delivery defects because of it. I'm sure it affected my sales because I have changed most of my international shipment settings from AIR to SURFACE (while I'm still shipping AIR) just to avoid these silly defects, and obviously some people would not buy when it's listed as shipping via surface. My international sales plummeted since then because I couldn't afford to have one more late defect this year.

musicyouneed · ‎10-23-2016

I agree that I possibly saved the seller a negative. But what really concerned me was this buyer felt it was a bad experience with ebay because ebay told him that he would have the item by a certain date. The seller possibly did not create that bad experience, but ebay did.

I also discussed with him the fact that if he gives a lot of sellers negatives that although he himself cannot receive a negative, some sellers will block him from buying from them. I told him that many sellers look at what type of feedback he has given others. I don't think that sat well with him as he didn't know a seller could do that. He had told me that he had given others negative feedback. I explained that a lot of the small sellers are just like me or him. Many were seniors, people with disabilities, mothers with children at home and others trying to supplement their income or pensions.

Another thing was he was working on a Samsung phone and what a dog's breakfast the ebay application is on that phone. He tried to look up the seller to see the handling time and couldn't find the seller. Could find the item but it wouldn't show the seller. I even tried and what a disaster that was. How could anyone find anything with that ebay app.

We talked for over 1/2 hour all about ebay so there was much more that went on but these are the highlights.

momcqueen · ‎10-23-2016

I wonder how often eBay reaches out directly to buyers to speak with them about their experiences like this.

zee-chan · ‎10-24-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:
I wonder how often eBay reaches out directly to buyers to speak with them about their experiences like this.

I'm gonna guess... once in a blue moon?

momcqueen · ‎10-24-2016

That might be optimistic. We should ask at Board Hour citing this thread as an example. Are you up for that musicyouneed?

musicyouneed · ‎10-24-2016

Yes for sure Mj, would you like to do the honors and post it to the forum?

momcqueen · ‎10-25-2016

Certainly. It might bear more weight coming directly from you, however, since I am known to pester him repeatedly each time. It's up to you. I wouldn't want to steal your show.

musicyouneed · ‎10-25-2016

If you think it would bear more weight coming from me, sure I'll go for it.

Mj, do you feel that the Wed discussions with Raphael are valuable? Have you seen something get resolved during that process? About the only thing that I see is it is hopefully passed on to people who deal with such matters. But it seems to me no lights go off or come on.

momcqueen · ‎10-25-2016

No, I think they do. I know that the people at eBay Canada listen to what we are saying and I'm certain they do the best for us with what they've got to work with. Raphael gets peppered with everything imaginable on a weekly basis, and very little of it is within the realm of his control, nor would it be within any one person's hands. But he's still the guy to go to with questions and when he has answers, he's quick to provide them. He's in a better position than any of us to know stuff. There just happens to be an awful lot of problems where he cannot affect change singlehandedly. Like the missing countries from PayPal shipping for CPC Tracked Packet, for example. That's a Pitney Bowes problem, it's not like he can walk across the hallway and pound on a co-worker's door until someone fixes it. I have worked in places like this before, and it can be very frustrating. Besides that, the Weekly Chat is all we have to work with right now. We're probably lucky to have it. As he has been known to remind us when people start forming a lynch mob, the Board Hour is a job he's volunteered to do.

momcqueen · ‎10-25-2016

And I do think the story you tell about this experience that you had with someone else's buyer has greater strength as a first-person account. You are in the best position to do it justice. The rest of us will be right there with you in spirit. And for moral support. I really do want to know what actual outreach eBay has done with buyers around their expectations. Like, focus groups? Anything pro-active at all? Or merely reactive?

rose-dee · ‎10-25-2016

I agree that the OP should be the one to bring it up tomorrow, and I hope they do.

In its zeal to create a one-size-fits-all policy to contain sellers, eBay has forgotten precisely this aspect of the scenario, i.e. buyer perception.

We have probably all had to adjust our shipping parameters in order to avoid eBay's punishment, but eBay won't have told buyers that. Like 'zee-chan' who must now show surface shipping in order to try to work around the possible consequences of eBay's policy. Or like my listings, which now show "economy" shipping on .com with a very long (and not realistic) delivery estimate. Although I tell every buyer in a personal note post-purchase what my delivery estimate is, I have to wonder how many buyers are turned off -- in advance -- by seeing those long delivery times in the listings.

Actually, come to think of it, you can probably add this factor (exceptionally long posted delivery times) to my list from another thread of why sales have dropped so dramatically this fall for many of us. Had eBay even considered this might have an effect on sales, especially for us Canadians? Yikes, just what we needed, another handicap!

tobyshitzu · ‎10-25-2016

Not only considered but they already know exactly what if any effect it has had on sales (obviously they believe its been a positive). They keep and analyze stats on everything. The response will be the same as its been the piles of times the shipping time has been mentioned, that the already know their estimates are fine , know sellers aren't receiving more defects over it, and purchases continue to increase on ebay. OPs seller in the USA would have had tracking, so if they deposited the item on time it wouldn't make any difference to them when it arrived or what fb the buyer left.

momcqueen · ‎10-25-2016

I suppose that's true.

Is negative feedback for a tracked item shipped on time eligible for feedback removal? I'm not near my desk to check.

rose-dee · ‎10-26-2016

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
Not only considered but they already know exactly what if any effect it has had on sales (obviously they believe its been a positive). They keep and analyze stats on everything. The response will be the same as its been the piles of times the shipping time has been mentioned, that the already know their estimates are fine , know sellers aren't receiving more defects over it, and purchases continue to increase on ebay. OPs seller in the USA would have had tracking, so if they deposited the item on time it wouldn't make any difference to them when it arrived or what fb the buyer left.

I was actually referring to Canadian sellers, listing on .com and shipping to the U.S. I doubt eBay gives a hoot about how our deliberately extended shipping estimates look to our U.S. buyers.

My point wasn't about eBay's estimates, nor about defects, which in the majority of cases, particularly for U.S. sellers, are probably a non-issue. I was trying to say that from a buyer's viewpoint, if sellers follow eBay's recommendations to extend handling times and state shipping services in listings that are actually slower than reality, those listings will be less attractive. In other words, our efforts to meet the U.S.-centred on-time delivery metrics may be working against us.

Certainly I agree with you that U.S. sellers have little to complain about.

i.am.vivian · ‎10-26-2016

@mjwl2006 wrote:
Is negative feedback for a tracked item shipped on time eligible for feedback removal? I'm not near my desk to check.

I've got a minute so I looked it up. The link is

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/feedback-removal.html

It is under the Feedback that is unrelated to a seller's performance and here's all the delivery related ones. It looks to me like a buyer CAN leave non-removable neg FB if the item does not arrive by the estimated date, like Oct 19 instead of Oct 17, that is, if the buyer pays right away, the seller ships right away, but the item arrives AFTER the tracked estimated date, the buyer can still leave the seller a negative over it:

Feedback or DSR related defects related solely to:

Customs delays or customs fees.
Item non-delivery, when shipment tracking shows the item was delivered. Signature confirmation is required for items over $750.
Shipping time, when the item is shipped Express and the item was delivered by the shipping carrier's estimated delivery date.
An item's delivery time when a buyer provided an undeliverable address and the item was returned to the seller or held at the shipping facility.
An item's delivery time, when a buyer paid for an item more than 3 days after a sale was completed. (If a buyer is allowed to combine shipping on multiple purchases more than 3 days after a sale, this type of Feedback won't be removed.)

Is that how it sounds to you?

momcqueen · ‎10-26-2016

Thank you for taking the time to do that.

Although it seems to me blatantly unfair that a seller can be negged for carrier failures, I have to agree it doesn't look like this would be grounds for removal.

Under the rules of common decency, you'd think it would. But it seems not.

pjcdn2005 · ‎10-27-2016

That policy was replaced a while ago but quite often the .ca pages aren't updated. Customer service is supposed to follow this policy now..... http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/defect-removal.html

I didn't compare the 2 pages but I know there are changes on it. Note that the ,ca page mentions dsr related defects which no longer exist.