Canada - Not as Described Return - Part 2 (How to contact CS that takes real action?)

[tonewoody]

Looking for advice on how to get to a higher level of Customer Service.

What do I need to say when I Contact ebay?

I have a very clear cut case (item grossly misrepresented, documented with pictures, messages, return agreement, returned, signature etc.) . Seller vaporized when it came to the refund.

 I waited the 6 business days, called CS, explained the situation (referencing pics/messages) and was given the clear impression that my return shipping would be refunded. 

Lo and behold, ebay decides in my favor, closes case but no return shipping refund.

I need to talk to someone who can straighten this out !

Thanks in advance.

[momcqueen]

I would guess here that the seller was an international one which is the reason your return shipping cost was not automatically funded in the form of a return label upfront. It is understood that out-of-country sellers cannot provide the return postage label ebay promises. 

The Returns process is automated (run by bots) and meant for one-size-fits-all problems. Any special circumstance and it flunks. 

The only thing you can do is call Customer Service back and re-explain that ebay needs to refund the Return shipping cost directly to you. They will take that money from your seller.

As an aside, I always take notes whenever I speak with a company so that I can impress upon them that they are covering ground that was already trod and wasting everyone's time and money. 

Good luck as you carry forward.

[sylviebee]

It sounds like you opened a case and escalated it and the case was decided in your favour.  Is that right?

If not, then do so now.

After it's escalated and if found in your favour the case will be put on hold for five days during which time the seller should either provide a label or funds for the return.

If nothing happens within 5 days call eBay.

They will either issue a label of some kind or refund your original payment without requiring a return.

At what point in the process is this falling apart for you?

[afantiques]

It is clear from the original post that the buyer has returned the item to the seller already.

The buyer now has no leverage to get the seller to pay for a return. The documentation indicates the item is no longer eligible for ebay to take any action, there is no poinnt in a return label if it were possible at all, and the way ebay try to get sellers to refund return shipping with cash by Paypal or lose the item is vitiated by the previous return.

Sorry to say it, OP, but you are out of luck here as far as your return shipping is concerned.

Ebay introduced the idea of compelling sellers to pay return shipping with no idea at all how to apply this to any but domestic sales.

[momcqueen]

You are partly correct. However, if the Original Poster calls ebay, the Return Postage funds will be sent to him or her. Ebay does not allow their buyers to dangle when it comes to Returns. If nothing else, they will receive a courtesy refund. 

[pjcdn2005]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

You are partly correct. However, if the Original Poster calls ebay, the Return Postage funds will be sent to him or her. Ebay does not allow their buyers to dangle when it comes to Returns. If nothing else, they will receive a courtesy refund. 

---

Sorry to disagree but they have left many buyers to dangle once they paid the shipping charges up front.  I'm basing that on many situations that I've read about as well as what is written in the MBG. 

Either we generate a return shipping label or the seller can provide a label. We add the cost of an eBay-generated label to the seller's monthly eBay invoice.

When a return shipping label is made available to the buyer and/or the buyer chooses to purchase a separate label, the buyer won't be refunded by eBay for the cost of the label.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

[femmefan1946]

We add the cost of an eBay-generated label to the seller's monthly eBay invoice.

As a seller I'm not too happy about the requirement that seller's pay for return shipping,

but if we are stuck with it I'm glad eBay has figured out that non-US sellers (or any seller in a different country than the buyer) were unable to generate a label and have figured out a way to do it for us.

[momcqueen]

If a buyer calls eBay to complain they have had to pay return shipping on an SNAD, eBay will do a refund of postage. The buyer has to call, and ask. If they have a clean record, eBay won't say no.

[pjcdn2005]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

We add the cost of an eBay-generated label to the seller's monthly eBay invoice.

As a seller I'm not too happy about the requirement that seller's pay for return shipping,

but if we are stuck with it I'm glad eBay has figured out that non-US sellers (or any seller in a different country than the buyer) were unable to generate a label and have figured out a way to do it for us.

---

eBay always knew that and I don't think that the policy has changed in any way. There is only one case when I've heard of ebay actually generating a label for a buyer outside of the U.S. so I wouldn't count on it.

In most cases there is no instructions for the buyer on what to do if the seller does not send money for a label. If the buyer asks ebay to step in then they may get a label from eBay or they may get the refund without the return but most buyers don't know that they have to ask ebay to step in.

[pjcdn2005]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:
If a buyer calls eBay to complain they have had to pay return shipping on an SNAD, eBay will do a refund of postage. The buyer has to call, and ask. If they have a clean record, eBay won't say no.

---

Have you heard of that happening quite often?  You state it as if it were policy but I don't see an indication of that anywhere.

[momcqueen]

It might not be written but it's practise, yes. This I know from personal experience.

[tonewoody]

OP Here,

Big thanks to the community and the thoughtful knowledge you shared. I wanted to follow up on the situation and hope my bad experience can help others avoid this situation

Warning to Canadian Buyers initiating SNAD returns to Canadian Sellers .

The short version:

Ebay does not honor their full SNAD policy within Canada with respect to ensuring return shipping charges being refunded.

Longer version:

A) Clearcut SNAD return, documented with pictures

B) Seller accepts return

C) EBAY message -Wait to receive shipping label

D) EBAY message- Seller can't print shipping label (Canadians can't print a ebay return shipping label!)

    -This EBAY message also says "

The seller is still responsible for return shipping costs, so contact them to arrange return shipping.

E) Not realizing that ebay was no longer 'on my side' I went ahead and arranged shipping method and cost through ebay messages with the seller, along with his promise to pay me. The agreement was documented for ebay to verify.

F) Shipped item, provided seller and ebay return with tracking info. Seller received item, online signature etc. and vaporized from the situation. Even though ebay had active tracking including the online signature showing on the return details I had to initiate the refund after waiting 10 business days.

G) Called CS. Had a long detailed talk with Sara , the CS rep, hitting the important points regarding Canada, SNAD, no refund shipping labels etc. She indicated that the shipping refund was part of the refund and I would have it in 48 hours.

H) Ebay message informing me they had decided in my favor. Finally! However no return shipping refund...

Today's follow up call effort to get my return shipping refunded:

A) Right off the top I requested a rep with 'a solid understanding of ebay Canada Return Shipping and Refunds for a SNAD' Ryan the rep said he could handle it but five minutes later handed me off to

Chris. She went on at length and with some fervor about the wording of

'When you want to return an item using alternative shipping arrangements, and the seller is responsible for the return shipping charges, you must work with the seller to agree on the shipping service and cost before returning the item."

Basically she said 'it's between you and the seller' and the action she would take was sending a message to the seller asking him to send the payment. I told her I had already sent a Paypal money request to the seller days ago but he's vaporized now.

She also went on at length about 'How could ebay be responsible for the agreement you had with the seller?

It's been a long time since I had a return situation like this but the last time it happened ebay stepped right up and gave me my money...It  kind of surprised me that ebay left me down.

I followed the return instructions ebay gave me to the letter. At no time in the process was I alerted to the fact ebay  was no longer covering my cost. I had documented the agreement and sellers refund promise through ebay messages as requested. In Canada you can't print a 'Return Shipping Label" so all return shipping has to be done with 'Alternative Shipping Arrangements.

I told Chris, had I known that I was not covered, I would have protected myself from the risk and done the return shipping differently. I also mentioned that this should be explained clearly in the 'ebay.ca 'Return an Item' page. I think this is a significant oversight on ebays part.

As a 10+ year ebayer with a 100% rating it's disappointing to know the scammer got away with $70 USD of mine.

[sylviebee]

---

@foulds wrote:

OP Here,

D) EBAY message- Seller can't print shipping label (Canadians can't print a ebay return shipping label!)

    -This EBAY message also says "

The seller is still responsible for return shipping costs, so contact them to arrange return shipping.

E) Not realizing that ebay was no longer 'on my side' I went ahead and arranged shipping method and cost through ebay messages with the seller, along with his promise to pay me. The agreement was documented for ebay to verify.

 ______________________________________________________

My experience has been a little different.

Once a case has been escalated the message is: Case has put on hold for 5 days while the seller arranges return shipping.

Where you went wrong was that you shipped on a promise rather than waiting for the funds prior to the return.

Had you waited for the money prior to the return all would have been well.  You would either have received money for the return or a full refund (no return required).

[pjcdn2005]

---

@sylviebee wrote:

---

@foulds wrote:

OP Here,

D) EBAY message- Seller can't print shipping label (Canadians can't print a ebay return shipping label!)

    -This EBAY message also says "

The seller is still responsible for return shipping costs, so contact them to arrange return shipping.

E) Not realizing that ebay was no longer 'on my side' I went ahead and arranged shipping method and cost through ebay messages with the seller, along with his promise to pay me. The agreement was documented for ebay to verify.

 ______________________________________________________

My experience has been a little different.

Once a case has been escalated the message is: Case has put on hold for 5 days while the seller arranges return shipping.

Where you went wrong was that you shipped on a promise rather than waiting for the funds prior to the return.

Had you waited for the money prior to the return all would have been well.  You would either have received money for the return or a full refund (no return required).

---

Unfortunately, it isn't made clear to buyers that's what they should. Many of them see that hold and think that if they don't send the item out by then that the case will be closed so they go ahead buy their own label.

eBay needs to either set up a system that is clearly explained to both buyer and seller when the nad case is filed OR

tell buyers that return shipping will not be paid for international situations.   To tell buyers that they are covered and them leave them hanging is not acceptable.

[femmefan1946]

eBay needs to either set up a system that is clearly explained to both buyer and seller when the nad case is filed

OR

tell buyers that return shipping will not be paid for international situations.  

To tell buyers that they are covered and them leave them hanging is not acceptable.

yep.

[retroman_studios]

I had a situation like this recently.

Note that the specifics of this may change with sellers that are from another country, but the moral is the same.

Just follow the prompts as provided by eBay during the case resolution. At each point of the case, eBay will tell you what to do. 

They also will mention exactly what to do if  the seller doesn't provide what they promised. (In this case, it sounds as if seller accepted a return and promised to prepare a return waybill)

If the seller doesn't provide that waybill by way of e-mail within the allotted time, you can ask eBay to step in. After which eBay will typically refund you and the seller takes the hit.

It's important to remember that the whole MBG system is designed to keep the buyer safe. So if you bypass the eBay case, then you are basically leaving a sheltered area back into the storm, where there is no protection.

[tonewoody]

'Just follow the prompts as provided by eBay during the case resolution. At each point of the case, eBay will tell you what to do. '

You apparently didn't read the thread or get the point. 

I don't have time at the moment to condense the vague mixed messages that ebay.ca needs to streamline, but I will soon.

Responses like yours strike me as shill responses from  the company.....

[retroman_studios]

I read it all.

I understand what you are getting at.

Yes, eBay doesn't do a good job of communicating.

However, when you stray outside of eBay process (or simply you do things yourself instead of waiting) there is zero requirement for eBay to reimburse you. If your seller was committed to customer service, he would have used PayPal to send you money for the return. That's what I have done in the past for some of my buyers that were in the US. I sent them PayPal funds so they could send an item back. Simple, effective. Based on trust.

[femmefan1946]

Simple, effective. Based on trust.

Exactly.

Which is why it is always important to be calm and polite when dealing with an online problem.

Most people are honest but sometimes they are confused about how to solve the problem.

Paypal's Send Money service is a godsend when we need to exchange cash -- rather than sending a Return Shipping Label (or what nvigate calls a waybill ).

Assuming that the other party is an enemy is not going to be helpful. He wants you to be happy -- okay he doesn't want to give you back the money, but usually friendly communication can come up with a solution.

Politely,-- Captain Malcolm Reynolds.

[pjcdn2005]

How did the OP "stray outside of the eBay process"?

The process tells them that they will receive a return label and then tells them that the seller can't send one.

Then the system warns them that if they don't return the item by such and such date the case will close and

there will be no refund.

Then they are told by eBay or at least are given the impression that they need to purchase the label in order to send the item back and that they would be refunded later on.  Many buyers have believed that is what they were supposed to do so I don't find it difficult to believe that the OP was given that same impression or even told that is what they should do.

Obviously the seller did not send them the money for a label and obviously eBay did not force them to do so. There was a lack of direction on eBay's fault...this has nothing to do with the buyer trying to go outside the process because there is NOT a specific process when it comes to international return labels.