Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

What do you think of the judgment rendered today?

 

http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14246/index.do

Message 1 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

I agree with it.

It means that the Gov't can't view it as Crown land to do with whatever they want.

There's now a landowner who has  to not only be "consulted" but they need their "consent. "

A landowner that not only likes to prosper but also wants to be left with a clean and sustainable environment.

If they don't have consent ( whether it's Gov't or a company ) then they have to "prove" that the development is 

pressing and substantial while meeting their fiduciary duty to the landowners.

 

So I guess the Gov't will now have to bargain in "good faith" and try a little harder.

It's unfortunate that there is so much distrust between them.

 

I couldn't believe Kevin O'Leary agreed with this decision. I almost fell off my chair. His reasons were different.

He'd rather bargain with one landowner at the table then Gov't bureaucracy. And let's face it, if you bargain in good faith,

you can bargain with them. If you try and run roughshod all over them you've got a fight.

 

 

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 2 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

Spoiler
 

 

Justice

Spoiler
 

 

Blackfeet ...Pikuni..... boy.jpg





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Message 3 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

Well I think It's time for change with all of this ... I think it is time to work with and Stand up to aboriginal demands...

 

The more projexcs they stop it should affect them ... The ones not willing to work to support there families shoud lose % of the handouts only to be rerouted to the hard working ones doing more then looking for handouts and working for a brighter future for there family and people  ( LAzy people should never be rewarded no matter where your from or what happens 2 centuries ago ) ...

 

IT's time to Intergrate all Races in Canada in the 21st century Aboriginals still make themselves outcast as to how the rest of society functions and has to function to survive...

 

Give them the right and the lands then give each tribe $$$ to To work towards Self Sustainablility within there reserves  not just to spend how they please...

 

I think it is time for a new outlook on everything because let's face it some of there own people speak out against them and there way of life .... Looking for handouts only to try and sustain a life style that has nothing to do with there way of life is wrong and that past has nothing to do with this simple fact ....

 

To forever be outkasts is not the way to go but it is also not really any of my business they are far from the only people to suffer in previous centuries but this is a different world not and everyone needs to adapt in a sense ..

 

I am not saying pull the plug take away handouts and rights I am saying it is time for a equal balance to be rid of the have your cake and eat it to lifestyle ... Some tribes get more $ then towns 2-3-4 times the size ... This is no economical solution to anything  not for Natives or others ...

 

We are supposed to be a generation working towards a brighter future but instead Aboriginals and goverment still and from what I see will always keep the White man Native fuid going ... Meanwhile we have intergrated every other race in to the Canadian society Aboriginals and Goverments still keep one race an outkast and this is something that I feel need to change ...

 

Do I have a solution tht would abide by treaties made 2 centureies ago noooo but this is not 2 centuries ago so although we are expected to never forget we are expected to move on and stp feeling like vitcims and control out own futures and destinies not by waiting for legislations and goverments to feed our children of Canada...

 

We last week Had a Sucide on a Reserve close to where I live .. ( Very Sad ) The saddest part was the Reason for it .. ( She felt like an outkast and was an angry depressed teenage who was living in an unhealthy enviroment with lack of romodels to guide her ) I Know because my bosses daughter was god friends with her... She wore rags even though they have a healthy income way above mimium wage with no taxes to pay on anything...  Yet for 4 years she wore rags was always picked on for smelling ( She has an acholic abusive father and the goverment still handed cheques to this guy every month to help him be a lazy alcoholic abusive father " Not cool"  )  These are the issues that are important to fight against ... (This is not a generalization nor is it a once in awhile thing)

 

The devils is in Idle hands

 

Good luck to all this debate has lost touch with the truth on both sides and becmoe more annoying then anything to me ...

Message 4 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

Hey Priory lets get real here .. Post hte picture of the 21 century Native with the Ipad and Iphone and the 60 in LCD T.V.

Message 5 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

FYI If I forgot to mention I agreee with the ruling and think it is a good thing but hope the aboriginal can make good use of the land to help feed nad raise there future generations

Message 6 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

Whoever the First Nations wish to be, or however they wish to live, is their business. They are not the immigrants. They are not the ones who should be told to change and become this or that.





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Message 7 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

I looked into this once, when it came to Manitoba anyways, when a friend of mine sent me a link to a blogger that said we didn't promise them anything and they have no claim to any land. In fact, this "anonymous " blogger actually said they had agreed to give it all away and copied and pasted some sort a treaty document.

 

This didn't sound right to me. I know that many people viewed them as savages and stupid, but it didn't make sense that they would willingly give it all away. So naturally I put in some of the words into google and came up with the actual treaty. It was on a Gov't of Manitoba website.As I suspected, they did not give it away.

 

The blogger had copied and pasted only half of it. The part the outlined what they were taking and left off the part on what they had promised them. It was quite specific, with land boundaries, etc. Unfortunately  the Gov't of this Province did not honor this agreement. And it was a legally signed agreement.

 

Fast forward to today. It's been about a hundred years since this was signed and we have acted ( until recently ) like it didn't exist. The aboriginals have been trying for the majority of that time to have it recognized and honoured but they were dealing with dishonourable people.

 

So now many people say that since so much time has passed, they should move on. They never gave up trying to have the agreements recognized. We tried to get them to forget about them.

 

They agreed ( legally in many cases ) to share the land and we weren't happy with that and decided to try and take it all and shove them out of the way. We acted like they weren't human and deserving of the respect of honouring agreements.As years went by we felt guilty about it and started sending them money after we regulated them to "reserves" with no legal private property rights to

develop or profit. We created a welfare society dependent on handouts.

 

They weren't the savages, we were.

 

It's time to recognize the rights they were always legally entitled to, negotiate with them in good faith, help them become prosperous in their own right and reverse the damage that we did to generations of their people.

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 8 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

You know what your right prioir nobody has the right to tell any of us how to live but thats not the case for anyone so your point although valid falls on deaf ears for me ....

 

It's time to move on and not in the sense of not given them what they deserve ...

 

They were not the only people who fell short of being treated fairly ... Just because my great great Grandad was beaten by his drunk dad and he beat my great gandad does not mean someone needs to give them land and money to change it ...

 

Ok before anyoe replies to that like THEY DESERVE it ... Why and how can people still blame the high sucide raets and rapes and drunken alcoholic plaque that ravishes so many reserves on the past .. That Is 100% BS ... We control ourselves not land not poverty and not what our great great grandads did or went through .  

 

Drinking is a choice,Suicide is a choice. Abuse is a choice  it is not something that the past did to them or us it is what we choose to do ...

 

IF Canada left Aboriginals to there land and way of life they would be back to the good old hunt and fish for your food and work for your living and do you honestly think that is what they want ... Can someone honestly tell me Aboriginals truly want the flow of money to stop and for everyone to leave Canada so they can go back a couple centuries.

 

THe problem is I am in the middle .. I agree with half and disagree with half and there are not many out there ... It is either Ignorance saying screw them or some pro advicate who can some how relate all aboriginals problems on the goverment and money and land ... There  no resoultion for a problem as a whole until people are willing to be honest about everything effecting there people ...

 

I mean can anyone tell me the last time we blamed a White fathers abuse on the economy and where they live? (Keeping in mind were talking about Canada)

 

Land is far from the only issues as some aboriginal and noe aboriginal know too bad the most are either PRO PRO PRO or Ignorant baboons

Message 9 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

All in all On this one I say good fight and Congrats ...

Message 10 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals


@brandeentertainment wrote:

You know what your right prioir nobody has the right to tell any of us how to live but thats not the case for anyone so your point although valid falls on deaf ears for me ....

 

It's time to move on and not in the sense of not given them what they deserve ...

 

They were not the only people who fell short of being treated fairly ... Just because my great great Grandad was beaten by his drunk dad and he beat my great gandad does not mean someone needs to give them land and money to change it ...

 

Ok before anyoe replies to that like THEY DESERVE it ... Why and how can people still blame the high sucide raets and rapes and drunken alcoholic plaque that ravishes so many reserves on the past .. That Is 100% BS ... We control ourselves not land not poverty and not what our great great grandads did or went through .  

 

Drinking is a choice,Suicide is a choice. Abuse is a choice  it is not something that the past did to them or us it is what we choose to do ...

 

IF Canada left Aboriginals to there land and way of life they would be back to the good old hunt and fish for your food and work for your living and do you honestly think that is what they want ... Can someone honestly tell me Aboriginals truly want the flow of money to stop and for everyone to leave Canada so they can go back a couple centuries.

 

THe problem is I am in the middle .. I agree with half and disagree with half and there are not many out there ... It is either Ignorance saying screw them or some pro advicate who can some how relate all aboriginals problems on the goverment and money and land ... There  no resoultion for a problem as a whole until people are willing to be honest about everything effecting there people ...

 

I mean can anyone tell me the last time we blamed a White fathers abuse on the economy and where they live? (Keeping in mind were talking about Canada)

 

Land is far from the only issues as some aboriginal and noe aboriginal know too bad the most are either PRO PRO PRO or Ignorant baboons


I'm not sure why you would compare "a"  white man's abuse in their family with an entire population of aboriginals abused by the country on the economy. What if "every" white man in this country was denied their rights, had their children rounded up and put into residential schools far from home, denied the rights to own property, etc. - for the last 100 years or so? What do you think the white population would be like now? Do you honestly think it would still look like it does today? Since that didn't actually happen to anyone else, how would you know how they would react?

 

You say you're in the middle but you're not. You spent the majority of your post blaming them. While I realize that some people have the natural fortitude to pull themselves out of a bad situation, I also know that people ( no matter what racial background they're from ) are influenced by the situation they're born into. Some just have more opportunity than others. This is common knowledge. We are all influenced by that.

 

I work with people from all backgrounds. Some are better than others. It does not make a difference what blood runs thru their veins. They are all influenced by their upbringing. Some had better upbringing than others. One fellow I knew ( he passed away recently ) was a little fellow. He struggled all his life to overcome his physical obstacles. His rock was his Mother. She would never let him feel sorry for himself. I'd never met someone so determined to succeed but he credited all of it to his Mother. Most people like him are supported by the taxpayer. He was dealt a bad hand. Not everyone is so lucky to have a Mother that provides that kind of support.

 

Don't kid yourself. When generations of people are marginalized it's like a domino affect. While some individuals can pull out of that and change the direction for their family, many can't. It's not any different for aboriginals than it is for anyone else. In fact, they have to try twice as hard to succeed because of stereotypes and prejudice. They're not an inferior breed. There's just so many of them that went thru this abuse - generations of them - at the hands of our Gov't - that you can't compare it to those that never had that experience.

 

If your family has gone thru this and triumphed, then I applaud you.

 

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 11 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

I said that because how many time do you hear the abuse and neglect by there own people blamed on poverty etc etc directly relates to Economy ...

 

IT is not right no matter what any cultures goes through to blame any of these things on anything other then people acting on there own ...

 

Ok you whole school speech it just like hangning and burning furnaces ok it is an overplayed record that I 100% agree wih you on how wrong it was but lets not kid ourselves .. M y Grandparents had 0 effect on my life ..... So just because my Grandfather was stuck in the trenches watcing his brother die well getting granade fragments  in his head lng and knees fighting for our rights .. HAS 0 Affect on how I treat my wife and provide for my children ( I would move the world to make sure my kids are ok not asking anyone to do it or help me )

 

 

Here is what your missing .. I believe in the rights and treaties I do not believe the dribble about whats happened 100 years ago is why some sac of $##)@ beats his kids and rapes his wife and drinks everynight ( This is a comment about people in general)

 

Did you see me dispute anything about the treaties (NO) That is my half that I agree one .... The rest is the half I do not agree on...

 

In this day and age they have MORE opputinity to succeed then any other culture in this day and age so don'

t give me that 100 year old story ... They have a chance to have school paid for and start out life as a doctor WITHOUT 1/4 million debt to start life ... THIS IS NOT THEN AND THEY HAVE EVERY CHANCE IN THE WORLD NOW TO BECOME WHATEVER THEY WANT TO ..

The world can't build Universities where for 1 reserve of 200 people  They can not move jobs where they can not be sustained people will have to move for this like everyone else .. Aside from the Lands tis is 2014 they have everything they need to be successful ..

 

My family when talking 50-100 years ago did go though most the same stuff just not in the same way ... They never got educated because they had to fights wars to protect our country (SO yes Well Natives went to an abusive School My Grandparents went to trenches full of dead bodies of fallen friends and family NOBODY had it easy then  and unfair things happen to all walks of life  It is time to leave your past in the past ... 

 

Would you tell your 12 year old kids that people use to **bleep** and beat and abuse you ... Future Generations need to hold on to the past but look to the future and hindering your everything on the past is just a bunch of bull

 

I belief Native have the treaties and deserve them to be honored. I do not believe in Excusing people for drinking,beating and **bleep** people for anything to do with there past.. It's BS  My granfather killed and hated German ,My Great grandafther and Great great Killed and abuse there spouses and hated any race but there own ...

 

I have never killed or layed a hand on a women .. I have never hated any race so No my past is not even a factor of who I am or how I provide for my family...

 

I said am half and half (Treaties which include finicies and land I agree with )  ( Making excuses for poverty,Drunk,Rapes,Sucide due to the Past  I do not believe )

 

IF you think your past gives you the right a screw up yuor kids future and beat them and be racist like your elder were 100 years ago then have at it but I don't believe in any of that BS

Message 12 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

IF you think your past gives you the right a screw up yuor kids future and beat them and be racist like your elder were 100 years ago then have at it but I don't believe in any of that BS

 

No, I don't think it gives you a right to do anything, but I do know that how you're brought up greatly affects

how you think and behave. Even if you swear never to be like your parents.

I'll give you a very simple example. A son grows up in a farm household that is very traditional. The father does the

farm work and the Mother is stay at home. The father is very demanding and expects certain things from his children.

One of the things he expects from his son is that he mows the lawn. Not just any mowing but precise perfect mowing.

With lines down the lawn in a certain direction, rotated every few weeks, etc. And he drills this into his sons head

and if it isn't done to his perfection, the son has to keep re-doing it.

 

Years later the son grows up, marries, has children and is now getting his son to mow the lawn.

Even though he complained about his fathers obsessive lawn mowing and swore he'd never be like that,

he suddenly realizes that he's yelling at his son because he didn't mow the lawn perfectly. Even though he knows deep

down inside that this is stupid, he still does it. He wants the lawn mowed with the lines going one way this week and the

lines going opposite the next week and before you know it he's obsessed with having the most perfect lawn on the block.

 

Why?

 

Because he was programmed that way.

 

Now his son is demanding perfection from his wife. What they hated, they repeat.

 

If you're looking for a logical explanation for it, you won't find it. We all think or do things that we were programmed to do. It takes generations to change the programming.

 

 

 

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 13 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

BTW, that is a true story. On an otherwise hard working man that just can't get past this stupid thing.

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 14 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

I completely agree but were not talking parents .... were talking early 1900's so were talking 1-4 generations past ... TIme have changed and so have the people ...

 

If were talking my parents sure they affected me .. My dad made it well known that he loved me but if I ever stole.vandalise or hit a women he would put my head through a wall 10 times over and this lead to me Treating every women in my life better then most deserve and has lead to me creating a loving family enviorment for my kid ...

 

My Grandparents though and Great Grandparents had 0 affect on me  and yes how they were was instilled in my parents to pass on BUT when it come to Drinking,Drugs,Abuse,**bleep** etc etc... This is more choice then about what someone did 80 years ago....

 

MAny people do what they were tought any many who were raised in bad situation strive to do the exact opposite but my issue is who they blame it on ...

 

I have always been a high tempered person and trust me when I say in my teenage years when I knocked someone out it was not because of my parents because niether of my parents were ever fighters or  anywhere close to violent other then the odd slap on the butt of kick in the butt...

 

It is what we are willing to do . I am not proud of many things in my life but I took it upon myself to recongnize I was an angry Teenager and I have 3 anger management certificates to prove how I change myself and nobody had anything to do with it but me but me and my decision to want to be better then all the other hot headed people I grew up with(Small town of partiers and scrappers) ..

 

Someone had a saying on here weeks ago that I love .. Devil in in idle hands or something like that ...

 

Now look at this I live near a reserve that is about 90% drugs booze and abuse... 1 Women and her mother bougt a very lucrative business now Named Fox Lake Lodge .. Out of 220 people from the Reserve she has 1 employed .. I asked why ( HER ANSWER NOT MINE .,.. There too **bleep** lazy too work ... Now if this is how a women from that reserve feels about her reserve who am I to tell her she is wrong .. All staff except 1 person are White people driving 4 times the distants the reserve is from the business just to have a job and support there families..

 

So you now have 200 Idle hands in that reserve Not willing to work no matter how much they make ... This is not because there Granparents had horrible experiences in life ..

 

I will be perfectly honest if I could collect a check and never work I just might do try it LOL but If I was I would not be complaining that it's not enough to support me or my family ...

 

People make it like one culture is more important then another and the truth is we would not have our lives if not for them and they would not have so much of the stuff if not for us .. I will never see them as more important then my children or my children more important then there but no matter what anyone says something there Granparents went through in 1930 is not longer an acceptable excuse....

 

Jew's rose above,Blacks rose above,Women rose above to leave there past as nothing more then a story in the history books.. We are not a 3rd world country where those actions are acceptable so it's not like change is out of reach you can ask any of the above mentioned.. (None of the above have anywhere close the options and rights of NAtive Americans right now in this day and age )

 

FYI Pierre those board guys are avoiding your questions like the plaque LOL...

Message 15 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

It's very tiring, this whole discussion about Native people. I wish I could sum it up into a few simple words but I can't. I will say that I am really done with people who say that Native people have to be like 'us'. They're from the same mentality when on other occasions in the past people from other countries were told they had to change as well and if they didn't, they suffered for it. Frankly I am thankful that there are people all around the world who are different and think different and dress different and have different traditions and beliefs and so many other things totally the opposite from 'us'. There is something undeniably evil in human beings when they decide to get greedy. When they decide they are going to take more and more from other people and especially if they have the power to do so.

 

When it comes to the Native people of N. America (Canada included) they were murdered and stolen from and slaughtered and put into camps and then more stolen from them. Their children were taken from them and forced into a new way of life and a new language and new beliefs and if they didn't do as they were told they were punished or murdered and many of them were sexually assaulted for years. They were shunned from society, from stores, from association, from voting and anything else anyone wished to reject them from. Then their land was taken and their rivers and lakes and ponds polluted. The list goes on and on and on and on and then someone from the other side says "it's in the past, forget about it". Doesn't work that way, especially when these Native people look around and know in their hearts that they are still second class people in the eyes of way too many people. When they have to fight in the 'white man's' court to get justice and it takes years and decades and even longer.

 

We destroyed their societies and their beliefs and their way of life and their self esteem and managed to accomplish it in a mere 200 or so years.

I know some people will laugh at this but there was a TV show that had it right, Star Trek and it's 'Prime Directive' > 'do not interfere with the lives of other civilizations'. How simple, logical and crystal clear can anything more be! Yet we still do it. We do it to other people of other lands and we do it to other creatures we share this planet, we still do it to the First Nations people and in a smaller context, we even do it to our own.

I prefer animals over people any day, because they are far wiser.





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Message 16 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

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Message 17 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

"those board guys are avoiding your questions like the plaque LOL..."

 

Unfortunately, you are correct.

 

My plan was to open discussion on the decision of the Supreme Court.  Instead of using links to newspaper or news organizations, I felt it was best to link to the actual decision by the Court using the Court website.  The media seems to have spinned the decision in different ways, often based on ideology.

 

We see the same thing here.

 

The decision had to do with a specific land claim in British Columbia with "borders" well defined historically.  It had nothing to do with genocide, drinking, beating wives, boarding schools, WWI or WWII, etc...

 

Looking at the "big picture", will this decision eventually help First Nations in Canada or work against them?

Message 18 of 19
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Canada Supreme Court and Aboriginals

I'm locking this thread since it is becoming too incendiary, and I feel that it will degenerate into racism.

Message 19 of 19
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