eBay

shooger · ‎12-17-2003

I woke up to this email:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey you,

I did a buy-now on this auction because it seems good. However, I've been cheated by thousands of dollars because people's failure of delivery. I want to try something new before I pay for this product. You must give me a positive rating first & then email me, or else I can't pay you. Once you ++(rate)++ me, I'll immediately pay with Paypal. Like I said before, I can't risk losing any more money. Failure to leave feedback for me first makes me wonder if your auction is a fraud.

my username to rate: usamagic993355 (please rate now)

(just write: waiting for payment 10-15 days from now, good communcation though, leaving a positive feedback: +++) O K ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And yes, he purchased the BIN auction. I checked out his feedback profile, and you should, too.

http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=usamagic993355

His account was started today, and he already has sucked three people into giving him positive feedback! Oh, wait, I just refreshed, and now there's four!

My first impulse was to pull his contact info. His phone number is 8788888. I'm not even going to waste the money to try it. I went to report false contact info, and the form I use tells me "you're not using a browser that supports cookies - download Internet Explorer". Well that's what I use! And it has always worked fine. I need to get this joker NARUd, fast.

Anyone have a scam like this happen to them before? What would YOU do?

I'm thinking about leaving a negative right now, to throw a wrench in his plans. If he retaliates, I'll use the feedback removal system to get it taken off. This is definitely NOT a legitimate operation. It just makes me so mad when someone tries to rip me, and dictate how I run my business!!!

mevans_cda · ‎12-17-2003

I'm just shocked that he managed to get 5 other people to leave positive feedback for him this way. Some of them have been around here for a while judging by their own feedback numbers. They should know better! I'd be thinking of a neg too if I were you! I've been getting a good response time lately off the link for the PS 24/7 email support at the PS front page. But definately get that email into eBay and shut him down. He's just playing games. Feedback has nothing at all to do with him losing thousands of dollars due to failure of delivery, which of I seriously doubt. If he's lost that much he'd be about the most unlucky person I've heard of!

jaymor8 · ‎12-17-2003

I'd leave the neg and fast. What a loser. That's the worst thing I have ever seen.

Good luck with it!

Jackie...

shooger · ‎12-17-2003

I deleted my cookies, and tried again, and got the form working. So I reported him for feedback extortion AND for having false contact information. I'm going to use the PowerSeller support form now as well.

I just left him a negative feedback:

"Sellers, do not let this fraud trick you! Positive fdbk before payment? NO WAY!"

With luck he will be NARUd before the day is out. If I have to get another negative from this, so be it. I don't bow down to fraud artists and cheaters!

mevans_cda · ‎12-17-2003

He's been busy too. He just signed up today as you said, and has already bid on 56 auctions. As I'm sure the rest of the sellers are getting the same email from him, I'll be interested to see how many more leave him his feedback.

itrecovery · ‎12-17-2003

Shooger,

Good job. This is fraud... so abvious...

Anatoly

amberwoodottawa · ‎12-17-2003

Absolutely disgusting.

Some of our biggest and hottest debates as Cdn PSers in this forum were on when to leave feedback (after the payment has been received or after the buyer gets his product and leaves his feedback). That was before this ever came up.

It shows you how hard up some sellers are to sell a $1 item by being persuaded to leave positive feedback before payment made.

That probably disgusts me more that what this guy is doing as the other sellers should know better.

Malcolm

jaymor8 · ‎12-17-2003

My question is - why would ANYone fall for that, especially experienced ebayers? I find this hard to believe. I would challenge anyone on this board to tell me that he/she might fall prey to that extortion.

I don't think I'll see one yay!

Also, how can someone be 'losing more money' when his account is one day old? Is it everyone's impression that he will pay for these things? I really, really don't get it.

Jackie...

shooger · ‎12-17-2003

I agree, Malcolm. Other sellers are continuing to fall for it, and his feedback rating climbs. What a disaster. I hope eBay gets around to my emails soon.

He emailed me again, but this time directly from his email program to mine (not through eBay's system). The first one was simply "DO YOU WANT ME TO PAY? THEN LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK!" The second was also directly sent, and was a repeat of the original threat.

I haven't responded to any of his emails.

Hmmm, is it possible for anyone else to report him as having false contact info? If so, that would help me, because he'd get NARUd faster if they got more than one report on him. His direct emails tell me his real name is "Chih Li OuYang" but when I pull his contact info, he signed up as "John Bergenstein". His phone number is also fake - 8788888. Assuming reporting invalid contact info without actually having a trade with that person isn't against eBay rules, any help would be appreciated!

amberwoodottawa · ‎12-17-2003

Email the other sellers (the people that left positive feedback). If they havent been paid right away as promised for their item, maybe they would be prepared to report him.

You might remind them that the minute he said he would BIN and pay immediately, the terms of the contract changed and if he renaged, he should be reported.
Malcolm

amberwoodottawa · ‎12-17-2003

I also note that this guy bought something for $0.25 with free shipping. The postage stamp costs more than what the seller is to get for the item she is shipping free.

Given the low value of everything he is buying, it is possible that he will actually pay for the items as his total cost including shipping so far is probably less than $30 which is pretty cheap to buy a feedback rating of 8.

Malcolm

shooger · ‎12-17-2003

"You might remind them that the minute he said he would BIN and pay immediately, the terms of the contract changed and if he renaged, he should be reported."

The thing is, there IS no contract. A contract is something between two people. The rules he sets up for the sellers to abide by are not agreed upon by the sellers. He never asked me if I agreed to leave positive feedback before he paid, or anything else in his threat. It's simply extortion, that's all there is to it.

My guess is that this goes far beyond this little account. I bet there are many people behind this operation. They build up accounts with positive feedback, at no cost to themselves. They might get a couple negatives (like the one I left, and the one from the other seller that I persuaded to do so), but overall they get a great feedback rating without spending a dime. Then they start "selling" plasma televisions for 1/3 the price, etc, and pocket about $10,000 before the account gets closed. If they have 5 or so accounts starting up per day, that's $50,000 pure profit every day. All they need is abundant email addresses (like the free web-based one this guy is using), and sellers willing to leave positive feedback before receiving payment. It's probably quite a well-oiled machine. Unfortunately, this account is almost at (10), at which point they can start posting auctions with Buy It Now option, and Fixed Price auctions. 😕

llee2 · ‎12-17-2003

Wow, he's started to chalk up quite a few negs now. Way to open the flood gates Shooger!

Actually, I am quite relieved...After seeing all those initial positives from relatively experienced sellers I was giving my head a serious shake.

amberwoodottawa · ‎12-17-2003

I am not certain if this guy is simply nuts and maybe not a fraud artist.

Take a look at all his responses to the negative feedbacks. It doesnt make any sense at all.

He is completely nuts.

Malcolm

shooger · ‎12-18-2003

Right on, looks like his little plan is kaput. But how hard is it to get another account, and do it all again tomorrow? Besides, how many BINs did he purchase, 56? At 30c a pop, that's $17 US he screwed people out of, which they can't get back. eBay made $17 off this guy in one day, and that's assuming all 56 sellers know how to, and remember to, file a Final Value Fee reversal. That also assumes he didn't do the same thing with another account, or several other accounts. A real shame.

shooger · ‎12-18-2003

When I get home from work tonight, there's another email from him (also directly sent):

"I was doing you a favor.
Now you have to be an ass about it?
YOU HAVE 24 HOURS TO LEAVE POSITIVE RATING AND SHIP!
Otherwise no payment.
YOU started it!
You have 24 hours to comply."

I still haven't responded to anything he has sent.

I was talking to another seller he did this to (she saw my negative feedback and decided to do the same, and email me to discuss this guy). She got the same threat tonight, telling her to leave positive, and ship. She's exasperated.

I'm in shock that someone can be this ballsey. Or maybe it's stupidity?

amberwoodottawa · ‎12-18-2003

It still defies all logic.

For $30 he could legitimately proceed with purchasing items, pay for them and get 10 positives so what the heck is this scam all about.

Even if he gave a fake address and the stuff never got delievered to him, he can still buy positive feedback that will sit on his account without fear of a wise seller finding him out and posting negative feedback or getting him kicked off.

Also, he targeted specific sellers, specific products. This is not random buying, there is a pattern to his purchases so I think this goes more to the loonatic theory than the scam theory.

That is not to say that he probably wouldnt pay for anything but the irationality of his follow-up emails and threats seem to be a waste of his time if it were truly a scam.

Malcolm

amberwoodottawa · ‎12-18-2003

Take a look at the items that this guy is currrently bidding on, there are 17 in total. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBidItems&userid=usamagic993355+&completed=0&sort=3&all=1&rows=25

They are all basically the same type of item and he is bidding on multiple items from some of the same Sellers so there is no advantage here as that will not get him any greater feedback as their suplemental feedback will not be distinct, only their first.

I think, in terms of a scam, there may be a mistake that has been made here. Again this is not to say that he may not pay for his purchases and his demand for positive feedback in the beginning is unusual but look at the unusual stuff this guy is buying.

I would suggest keeping contact with some of the sellers that had left positive feedback to see if and how they got paid.

Malcolm

deltone · ‎12-18-2003

What a nimrod!!! And so rude. You'd think that someone trying the carp he's pulling would have at least been polite in his initial email. What is with the "HEY YOU". Amazing.

I'm not sure ebay will naru this guy unless at least 3 of you file the non paying bidder form on him and file for final value fees. You might want to discuss this with 2 other sellers and if 3 of you file, he's gone. GOOD LUCK

amberwoodottawa · ‎12-18-2003

deltone,
That's why is doesnt sound like a scam to me, that being someone setting up a bogus account obtaining positive feedbacks to later sell items without deliverying them and keeping the money.

It sounds like a nut case that shouldnt be allowed on eBay or maybe it is a seller trying to hurt his competitor's businesses by taking up their time, costing them money, bringing out the worse in them and leaving them negative feedback.

Malcolm