Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim

It wasn’t the video that convinced me that Const. James Forcillo of the Toronto Police Service would eventually be arrested and charged, as he was on Monday, in the death of 18-year-old Sammy Yatim. It was the silence, and off-the-record murmurings, of his fellow officers.

Mr. Yatim, whose family claims had no history of mental illness, was shot and killed by Const. Forcillo early in the morning on July 27. Mr. Yatim had been riding a Toronto Transit Commission streetcar when he was reported to have exposed himself, brandished a knife and acted aggressively to fellow passengers. The streetcar was evacuated and surrounded by more than 20 police officers. As shown on a video of the event captured by a witness, and subsequently posted online, officers ordered Mr. Yatim to drop his knife. Then Const. Forcillo opened fire — first three shots, then six more.

In charging Const. Forcillo with second-degree murder, Ontario’s independent police review agency, the Special Investigations Unit, has set the bar high. The Crown must now prove that Const. Forcillo had the intention of killing Mr. Yatim and that he did not have any reasonable grounds to fear for his own life. And it’s important to note that he doesn’t need to establish that shooting Mr. Yatim was necessary, just that in the heat of the moment, he reasonably believed it was necessary. Proving that he didn’t have reasonable grounds to believe that, let alone proving it beyond a reasonable doubt, will prove a huge challenge.

There’s every likelihood, based on the above, that Const. Forcillo will fight these charges, win and conceivably return to duty. Mr. Yatim’s family, and those outraged on their behalf, need to be prepared for that.

But whatever the outcome, it should not be lost on them that even police officers are deeply shaken by this incident. I’ve long maintained an interest in policing, and have in recent years worried that the direction Canadian law enforcement is heading in. Most officers, the majority of us would agree, do good work on our behalf, often under difficult circumstances. But there is a regrettable habit among police officers to reflexively cover up or excuse almost any conduct committed by a fellow officer simply because they are a fellow officer. This has led an increasing number of Canadians to increasingly view the police as something separate and apart from the community it serves, which leaves everyone poorer off.

But that hasn’t been the case here. Many — I wouldn’t hesitate to say most — of the police officers I’ve spoken to or heard from since Mr. Yatim was killed have been frustrated by what they consider a rush to judgment on the part of the public and the media. They roll their eyes at suggestions that a man with a knife isn’t dangerous just because the knife is short, or that every police officer is an Olympic-calibre sharpshooter that can knock a knife out of a moving suspect’s hand with a single bullet without hurting the suspect or anyone else. And they are downright angry that it is often left to them, the frontline officers, to deal with mentally ill citizens who have fallen through the cracks of the health-care system, sometimes repeatedly.

But not one, among all the dozens of officers I’ve heard from these last three weeks, has expressed any glimmer of hope that Const. Forcillo would escape charges. One officer put it best when he told me that a situation like this is every officer’s nightmare, but no matter how many times he imagines himself in that situation, he just can’t imagine opening fire at that moment. He knew, he told me, that he would open fire if he had to. But as much as he wants to understand why Const. Forcillo pulled the trigger, he just can’t get there. Similar sentiments are strongly implied by other officers, who sigh, shake their heads and say, “I guess we’ll see what the investigation says.”

This is virtually unprecedented. Cops rush to defend other cops even against the indefensible. But when it concerns Const. Forcillo, the most commonly expressed emotion isn’t outrage or confidence, it’s heartbreak.

Const. Forcillo may yet be found not guilty in a court of law. The odds are on his side there. But this incident has deeply shaken his colleagues across the country. The thin blue line may not have cracked, but it’s flexed. And that’s hard to ignore.

 

National Post

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Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim

I heard on the radio, that 11 cops in Ontario have been charged with manslaughter or second degree murder.

Of those eleven, only one was convicted.

That conviction was overturned on appeal.

So, it's cops eleven, citizens zero.

 

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Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim

My guess is that he was charged with a more serious crime than they should and he will get off because they won't be able to prove premeditation.

They should have charged him with manslaughter.

 

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Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim

So, it's cops eleven, citizens zero.

 

And it always will be because our police are a gang, but a gang with more power than any other gang.......but a gang nonetheless.

Although there are good cops out there, even they can't say anything or they are shunned by other cops and any hope of advancement is gone forever.





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Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim

By Vancouver Sun December 9, 2007

 
 
The Criminal Code defines murder as the death of someone where the killer meant to cause the death or meant to cause them bodily harm that was likely to result in their death. There are two degrees of murder:

First-degree murder is when the killing is “planned and deliberate”. In other words, where the murder was premeditated. However, some killings that aren’t premeditated are still automatically first-degree, such as the killing of a police officer or when the killing takes place during the commission of a hijacking, kidnapping or sexual assault. Those convicted of first-degree murder receive an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years.

Second-degree murder is defined in the Code as all murders that are not first-degree but where the killing was still intentional. Generally speaking, it applies to those murders that take place in the “heat of the moment” and weren’t planned in advance. For example, a husband who had no plans to kills his wife but, once they start fighting, means to kill her, is guilty of second-degree murder. Like with first-degree, those convicted of second-degree receive an automatic life sentence. However, the judge can set their parole eligibility at anywhere between 10 and 25 years.

Manslaughter is defined in the Code as a culpable homicide that is not murder — in other words, where someone killed someone unintentionally, such as a drunk driver. Someone can also be found guilty of manslaughter instead of murder if the killing was committed in the “heat of passion” as a result of a provocation that would cause an ordinary person to lose their self-control. There is no mandatory minimum sentence for manslaughter but the maximum penalty is life in prison.
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Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim

those murders that take place in the “heat of the moment” and weren’t planned in advance.

 

It would appear that second degree murder is the appropriate charge. 

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Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim


@puckstopshere wrote:

those murders that take place in the “heat of the moment” and weren’t planned in advance.

 

It would appear that second degree murder is the appropriate charge. 


Does anybody take into account the people that Yatim planned on killing.

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Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim

Does anybody take into account the people that Yatim planned on killing.

 

Absolutely no proof that he planned that at all. As a matter of fact there is ample proof he didn't want to harm anyone.

Can a knife kill a person? Yes. Can a baseball bat kill a person? Yes. Can a pencil kill a person? Yes. Will police start shooting people with a pencil?

 

I caught the end of an article about a man who also was shot and killed by police somewhere in Hamilton. He had been at the hospital for medication or treatment for anxiety and was found wandering in oncoming traffic. He had no weapons. His parents were on TV being interviewed because they were wondering why this Yatim situation is being given more attention than what happened to their son. http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/06/11/hamilton-siu-investigation-shooting.html

 

I use to respect police but that respect is becoming less and less. There are good cops and bad cops, just like anyone in any profession, however the good cops are as much to blame because they are not stepping forward. 





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Matt Gurney: Even the cops can’t defend the shooting death of Sammy Yatim

Does anybody take into account the people that Yatim planned on killing.

 

Nice that you are able to read his mind.  Maybe he did plan on killing someone.  We will never know.

That doesn't alter the fact that there were a dozen ways to end this without killing him. 

Why didn't they use the taser FIRST?  Why use it after he was dead or mortally wounded?

Wait him out until he passes out from exhaustion, lack of food and water.

Use tranquilizer darts.

Use tear gas or a precussion grenade.

Use rubber bullets.

Or, the one that cries out as the best - negotiate with him  Talk to him.  Bring in a professional to seek a peaceful resolution.

 

Killing him was a knee jerk reaction.  It should have been the last resort - not the first.  This case will be tried before a judge and hopefully on the basis of the laws involved.  His layer will never opt for a jury as it would be impossible to find 12 impartial people who are not aware of the case.  If I had to guess, there will be a plea bargain, possibly with a verdict of manslaughter.  This is not the best resolution, but it is better than letting him off scot free.

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