The Selling of Garments

[2011limey1]

Hi, I'm a buyer, and have been lucky in that I've always had great sellers in Canada, the U.S. and China.

This mostly happens on U.S. Sites, but more and more I've been seeing it on Canadian sites too.....and let my caveat that by saying this CERTAINLY is not all of you!  If you have a garment to sell, whether it be new or used, PLEASE ensure that you take the time to IRON it and not display it on a bent wire hanger stuck on a doorknob of a very messy room!  Sometimes they look like they've been just taken out of the wash or it's been stuck in a suitcase for a LONG time!.  Even some purses on wire hangers in a messy area sure takes the "ambience" out the of item!  I always move along quickly.

Also, if displayed on "Judys" - and say it's a sweater - underwear on "Judy" wouldn't go amiss!  Same if it's for pants - even a bra wouldn't hurt - they look awful;-)

[rose-dee]

I completely agree!  But then I always try to display my garments for sale in a way that I imagine someone might want to see them in a store window display.  I don't mind if my competitors' displays look shabby! 😉

The only exception I might make is with delicate or fragile antique silk garments (i.e. over about 100 years old), especially satins that have been stored for some time, which could be permanently damaged by any attempt at ironing.  Sometimes with very old silk garments that have more or less permanent creases from storage, it's best to leave them as is. 

Of course here I'm referring to collector's antique garments, and not items that might reasonably be expected to be worn.  If it's a garment that can be worn, some gentle ironing makes such a difference in display photos.  And I agree with you about the topless or bottomless mannequins... yechhh.  😞

[i*m-still-here]

rose-dee:  I have a question you might have some insight to.

I have some old garments which are like the reproductions you sell.

Mine are original and some have a few small holes here and there.

They're still lovely, but no longer perfect after all these years.

These little holes aren't visible unless one looks closely for them, but they are there.

For example, a full length gown might two or three 1/4 inches holes in the material.

Do these items still have value to a collector?

[rose-dee]

To "i*m-still-here" --  They do still have value, but of course that will depend upon the age/era of the garment, its general condition aside from the holes, how many similar items are available on eBay, and the style (a formal gown will fetch more than a house dress, for example, and tailored suits usually sell at decent prices).  The textile may be an issue too:  many people don't want to be bothered caring for silk garments at all anymore. 

If you are talking about older garments, say from 1900 to 1920's, there is a good collector's market, but there is also a lot of competition on eBay.  If your item is unique in some way, or of a beautiful colour, you'll have a better chance of getting a decent price even with damage.  Most serious collectors of antique clothing are prepared to accept some damage as long as it is disclosed by the seller. 

One issue in early 20th century garments, referred to as "silk shattering" (that most collectors will be aware of), which is irreversible, non-repairable, and will progressively ruin a garment.  I don't know whether your items are suffering from this damage, but this must be disclosed if you're trying to sell.  Also, there is a qualitative difference between holes caused by moths (i.e. in wool or silk), and holes caused by wear or stress damage.  The former could mean moth infestation, which collectors will avoid and will make the item less saleable; the latter are fairly insignificant to collectors, especially if they can be repaired. 

All the above factors will have a bearing on value.  I have a "Condition Chart" that I use on my true antique garments that I'll find and post here.  It's a good idea to use something along this line when selling vintage or antique garments, as inexperienced buyers/collectors can have unrealistic expectations. 

Overall, I have to say that prices for antique garments with true collector value are currently depressed - great if you're a collector, not so great if you're a seller.  Two or three high-end antique garment dealers I know have lowered their prices on all but the rarest and most perfect antique garments. 

Accordingly, the main thing is to be sure you are absolutely clear in the listing about the damage.  Photos of the issues are critical (I use a pencil or my finger in photos to point to the area and give some relative idea of the size of the damage).  If you can afford it, and you think the item will withstand handling, get it dry-cleaned before selling. 

And, yes, if it's a textile that's not too old or fragile and can withstand gentle ironing (this includes most cottons, linens and some wools -- but use a cloth!), definitely try to give it a bit of a pressing before taking photos for the listing. 

[rose-dee]

To "i*m-still-here" --  Take a look at this listing -- after the description portion, you'll see my standard "blurb" regarding evaluating condition of antique/vintage clothing:

170959130803

Personally, my philosophy is that no antique garment over 100 years old should be worn, because damage occurs every time such a piece is worn, whether the damage is immediately visible or not.  However, many people do want to buy an antique garment to wear, so size (the larger the better) is also another factor in value. 

[vintagenorth]

Please remember that all clothing items must be washed or dry cleaned before selling on ebay as per their rules.

Also, don't forget that some countries do not allow you to mail used garments to their country even if they have been cleaned, so check first.

[i*m-still-here]

The items are about 100 years old.

I've started to list them a number of times but always move onto something else because I find these too challenging to deal with.

So much more difficult to photograph than small items are, and even if you steam them they wrinkle as soon as you put them aside.

Also, once they've been packed for shipping they'll arrive wrinkled anyway.

They're in good to excellent condition, but then I find these little holes.

Most are cotton.

It makes me wonder if any of these survived without little holes here and there, and if so that must be unusual.

I understand about old silk.  They used to use "fillers" during some eras........... and as a result that material has shattered with time.

None of that has survived well.

However, I think that pure silk is fine.

[i*m-still-here]

I should add:  The work on these pieces is amazingly beautiful.

It's all hand done embroidery etc.,  ............ I'm pretty sure they couldn't have bought fabric  like by the yard in those days.........

But then there are these annoying little holes.

[chimera148]

But then there are these annoying little holes.

Yes, I've was buying some used wool shirts recently and about 30% have undisclosed holes, some negligible and others quite obvious. Odors can be a problem, also. It's hard to find anybody that repairs the holes nowadays.

[i*m-still-here]

chimera, the pieces I'm talking about are at least 100 years old and for display only.

They're not to be worn.

 My issue has more to do with wondering if these little holes devalue these pieces to a great extent as it's possible that none have survived without holes.

If so, they must be few..................

As far as used clothing .............. I would think that any hole of any size would mean that the item isn't worth listing on ebay.

[chimera148]

Yeh, it's been a learning experience alright, but try and find a true wool shirt in Canada or even have a new one mailed to you from the manufacturer.  They are better than the 100% wool Stanfields we used to be able to buy. I've got some of these i bought new 25 years ago and they are like new today. What is discouraging is the quality of much of the new clothing offered today. I  donated 20 year old clothing , jeans and shirts i grew out of, to the Sally Ann that likely has much more wear left than the same brands that are sold today. So i took the risk and have been happy with it. 

[chimera148]

It's not unusual to see some of the shirts with disclosed holes sell for $50-100, just wish all sellers would disclose the obvious defects.

[chimera148]

im still here.

Sorry, the shirts i mentioned are only up to about 70 years old.

Maybe the info will be helpful to other sellers or buyers.

[chimera148]

2011limey1,

I agree as a buyer. It would also save sellers and buyers time if the proper measurements are noted in the listing.

[i*m-still-here]

im still here.

Sorry, the shirts i mentioned are only up to about 70 years old.

Maybe the info will be helpful to other sellers or buyers.

Yikes..........

You're buying Pendleton shirts.

To me ......... you're talking about used clothing.......... not antique......:).

70 years old?

Pendleton?

The pieces I was referring to are Victorian ........... that era.

[chimera148]

Yes, used 100% wool shirts, can't seem to get any Canadian made ones anymore. Even the Pendleton ones are assembled outside the US now, apparently they started making shirts in the 1920s and were just making Indian blankets previously.

[2011limey1]

rose-dee   I was curious and looked at your listings.  Kudos - items are just beautiful and the way they're displayed is second to none.  Certainly no half-nude mannequins! 😉

[rose-dee]

As far as used clothing .............. I would think that any hole of any size would mean that the item isn't worth listing on ebay.

to "i*m-still-here" --  If your items are ca. 100 years old, made of fine cotton, and are embroidered, the holes will be relatively insignificant to collectors, since any serious  collector of Victorian or Edwardian "whites" will know that these items are:

a) generally not intended to be worn, either because of small size or risk of damage during wear, so size is generally of little concern to a collector;

b) likely going to have some sort of damage -- holes are far better than rust stains (a common issue in very old cotton pieces); and

c) intrinsically valuable for study and/or the intricacy of the design or embroidery; and

d) often repairable -- many collectors either have the skills to repair antique "whites", or know someone who can do repairs. 

Please read my Post #4 above and take a look at the antique condition chart.  All other things being equal, as I said earlier, if your items are clean, odour-free and intact other than a few small holes, and have beautiful embroidery, they would probably fall into "Good" to "Very Good" condition, and their value would compare with most similar items on eBay. 

Remember that the location of the holes may be a factor -- a big hole in the middle of the front of a bodice is more significant than a few small holes in the back or below waist level.  Generally such small holes will only slightly affect the value of an otherwise beautiful piece. 

In fact, the vast majority of antique clothing sold on eBay does have issues of one kind or another.  This is the norm, so as long as the damage isn't extensive or seriously detracts from the general impression of the garment when displayed, it's not a critical issue with respect to pricing.   

In fact, I've rarely seen a truly "perfect" antique garment on eBay, and those that are virtually pristine fetch extraordinary prices.  However these are not comparable to the usual 100-year-old garments sold on eBay. 

[rose-dee]

rose-dee   I was curious and looked at your listings.  Kudos - items are just beautiful and the way they're displayed is second to none.  Certainly no half-nude mannequins! 😉

Thank you so much for your kind words!  I do try very hard to make my antique and replica garments look as if some care has been taken in displaying and photographing them. 

And I always put a plain skirt or top on my "Judy" if she needs a bit of cover-up.  The only thing of course is that I then have to be clear in the listing that the other article of clothing isn't for sale. 

[rose-dee]

Please remember that all clothing items must be washed or dry cleaned before selling on ebay as per their rules.

This is true with used or vintage clothing that is intended for wear, but there is a distinction where antique pieces are concerned that are meant for display or study, i.e. a "collectible" rather than used clothing. 

I haven't been able to find a specific rule pertaining to antique collectible clothing on eBay, but I suspect from the huge number of "as is" antique collectible garments being sold that this is not something eBay polices too stringently.     

To "i*m-still-here"  --  Many ca. 100 year old "whites" (cotton or linen) can be gently laundered by hand.  The real problem arises with the drying and ironing afterward -- it's very easy to destroy antique embroidery unless you know how to properly handle it after laundering.  And dry-cleaning a delicate 100-year-old embroidered muslin garment is a risky proposition.  Perhaps this is why eBay doesn't seem to be too hard about the cleaning requirement where true antique/collectible garments are concerned -- the majority of them are no longer (or ever really were) cleanable.