What are your thoughts on The Ukraine crisis and will it turn into to WW3

[brandeentertainment]

I just want to hear peoples opinions on this matter as I have been paying very close attention to everything to do with this and all the Countries allies and Armies and this is actually becoming a very serious situation for any one on gods green earth....

Many people Think US would win a War and MAny think Russia would but if you look closely at allies the US does have some good allies but all Russia's allies have very little care Life which in my mind means if war would happen I would tend to think regardless of the Stats that would indicate US could crush Russia by shear numbers there is something to be said about fighting somoene who does not care if they live or die ...

So what are your thoughts on this matter and let's make a good debate on this one .. Been awhile sense the forums have seen a good debate ..

[brandeentertainment]

Sorry I also forgot to mention do you think there will be a war and if not to you think it could affect the US standings as far as "being the boss" ...

[brandeentertainment]

a few interesting facts to help with what I hope will be an interesting debate and or convo to which I believe there will not be a war but at the same time think it is only 1 slip up at anytime that can cause it and it could be the action of ukraine,russia,US,or evem EU that causes it ..

Russia would be backed up by China ,North Korea,Iran and those are some big boys not quite the backing that US would have but every country tat would back Russia has very little value for human life which in my mind makes them the more dangerous of the bunch

Start off by saying between these 2 countries they have about 90% of the world nuclear weapons and alone can both blow up the  the planet a couple 100 times over..

Even if there is no war this is going to create a mess for the US that is not going to end anytime soon

Left number is US right number Russia

1.total population 142,517,670 . 313,847,465
2.manpoweravailable 69,117,271 . 142,212,012
3.military reserve 20,035,000 . 1,458,000
4.total aircraft strength 4,500 . 15,2936.
5.navy ship strength 224 . 2907.
6.submarines 58 . 71
7.total aircraft strength 4,500 . 15,29310.
8. total helicopter strength 1,635 . 6,665

Some more number and facts here which could affect a war

Russia:
arable land: 7.11%
permanent crops: 0.1%
other: 92.79% (2011)

U.S.A:
arable land: 16.29%
permanent crops: 0.26%
other: 83.44% (2011)

If any of ukraines neighboring countries came to help and found themselves at war NATO would have to help which could spell trouble

Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Hungary. And so are the the Baltic states — Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia —

In Billions $$ spent on Milirary

[brandeentertainment]

oops made a mistake

numbers left is russia right is US ..

i would also like to add i think was harper has been saying and doing is stupid ..

Canada is a weak country and should not act otherwise .. we are a peace keeping country and do not have enough of anything compared to US or Russia ...

Harper is putting up a poker face but the only problem is the whole world knows what cards are actually in his hand

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

This whole situation in the Ukraine is very convoluted. Frankly, it's very difficult to come to a real conclusion. Over here in the "west" our media is serving us up a plate of 'what they want us to hear' and if history has shown us anything, we should take that with a grain of salt.

It is obvious that the US, Canada and some other European countries do not want Russia to gain any further power, but in the same token what is it that the people of the Ukraine want? The Ukraine economy was a disaster and between politicians and money borrowing Russia got into the fray. Also from what I read the desire to become or not become part of Russia is a 50/50 split in the population, so basically it's a civil war. Then when it comes to Russia's involvement be it covert or not, there isn't a country hardly out there, especially the US who has clean hands in history when it comes to 'undue' influence in many areas.

We live in a world of political brinkmanship and games and the 'people' (aka you and me etc) don't know 10% of the real story.

As for Canada's involvement in this. We should stay out of it at present, but we won't, because Harper is a gung-ho politician who wants to feel like one of the big boys and like Iraq where he said we should have been part of that (and thankfully we were not), he's going to destroy Canada's good name for his ego.

JMPO

[femmefan1946]

Just a fussbudget: it's Ukraine not The Ukraine.

One thing the West seems to get antsy about is that Crimea and the Eastern provinces are now, due to immigration, heavily Russian.

Overlooked is that North America is also heavily populated by immigrants.

From an academic point of view, complaining that the residents are not entitled to a voice, because they (or their grandfathers) came from elsewhere.... well seems a little hypocritical.

Perhaps the best bet is an honestly run election to ask what the people who live there what government they want.

Preferably without Russian troops and vigilantes roaming the streets.

Given that Ukraine was well on the way to being a failed state before the current Troubles, chances of that seem low.

[nuvistors]

Should Canada support the present Ukraine government which ousted the former government in an illegal coup ?

If so why ?

[prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil]

Well there is a reason, Harper's ego. If that can be classified as a reason.

[brandeentertainment]

i have to agree with the Harper thing he is not doing any good for Canada .. We are what we are as a country and he is pretending we are something special and were not .. We are part of Nato but have no reason to get involved yet and his action only seem to push for a nato country to get involved ...

The Country of ukraine does have a 50/50 split so what would actually bring peace ot the situation ?

EU Is now trying to get out of there dependence on russia for gas which should be interesting considering they use about 30% of Russia Gas supply  and is it or should it be seen as a way to get a way from a country who is acting like it is a different century ...

my thought is what russia is doing is wrong for this day and age but how wrong I am not really sure because as prior pointed out half of The Ukraine 😉 wants to become part of Russia ..

let's be honest call it what you want Putin has done more for Russia more then any other president has done for any country and to boot his approval ratings far out match and other presidents approval ratings...

[valve37]

Canada being a NATO member means we are drawn in regardless. Same as our involvement in Afghanistan. We may need those F35s sooner than later!

[art-in-the-making]

I don't see any way through to a "win" in this situation. Eastern Ukraine is very Russian ethnically and right across the border from Russia. One thing for sure, I bet Ukrainians wish they would have backed off a tiny bit a few months ago. They could have avoided the whole fiasco of losing the Crimea, not to mention what is going down now in eastern Ukraine.

The changes around the rest of Europe have been earth-shattering. For example, as of this year, Romanian and Bulgarian citizens now have full EU rights, meaning they can go to the UK or any other EU country and work or collect full benefits ~ as have been enjoyed by all other EU members countries, including Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, etc. for years... Literally hundreds of thousands of migrants moving freely around Europe.

In this situation, a gradual normalizing of relations between Russia and Europe was sure to occur eventually. In retrospect, it was probably not such a big deal that Putin and Yanuschkevich or what's his name wanted to slow down the "Europeanization" as it were of Ukraine. Of course Ukrainians wanted to start enjoying Europe sooner rather than later.

A lot of people are dying now though, and the whole thing has to be turned around before total meltdown is reached. It comes down to how to defuse the situation while allowing everyone to save face. In that context, Harper's actions could not be more inept or inappropriate.

As for the F35s - maybe we should go for the SAAB Grippen. Switzerland is debating acquiring 22 for $4 bil.

[valve37]

Why The Gripen Is Not the Right Aircraft For the RCAF – Part 1

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2013/04/15/why-the-gripen-is-not-the-right-aircraft-for-the-rcaf-part...

[art-in-the-making]

valve, we're talking about planes (the F35s) that are so hard to build that no one can even do a remotely close estimate to how much they will cost. They can cost literally anything! And I'm sure there are an infinite number of specs and whatnot that could be compared discussed and debated. Apparently we can't even afford to fly half the fighters we have btw.

But the Gripens are a known quantity. We should just get some and go from there.

[pierrelebel]

'Should Canada support the present Ukraine government...?"

NO.

Too many Canadians (including the media) identify the Russian "separatists" in Ukraine with the 1970's French separatists in Quebec.  There is no parallel.

Let the folks in Crimea and (Russian speaking) Eastern Ukraine decide democratically through referendum how they want to conduct their affairs.  Let the "West" (USA, Canada, Western Europe) accept that democratic decision, even if it favours Russia politically.

[pierrelebel]

"will it turn into to WW3"

NO.

[valve37]

WW3 is when the Red armies in the North decend upon the Middle East in their quest for liquid gold. At least that's how my dear Mother explained it to me. Whether you are still alive and remain or have since passed will you be saved by the Rapture? Prepare yourself or remain in a fiery pit!

[pierrelebel]

I would not worry about the Red Army coming down for oil anytime soon.

"According to Russian Natural Resources Minister Sergey Donskoy, as of 1 January 2012, recoverable reserves of oil in Russia under category ABC1 (equivalent to proven reserves) were 17.8 billion tons and category C2 reserves (equivalent to probable and possible) were 10.9 billion tons"  

Do the math:  based on current and projected consumption it works out to more than twenty-five years supply - assuming they do not find any more oil in the meantime.

Not to worry.

[valve37]

Whether it be 25 or 125 years Pierre, be prepared to save yourself from fire and brimstone.

[fixmusic2013]

Thats false.

Just because we are part of NATO doesnt mean we have to get involve.  Look at Vietnam.

We are not America and we would not be fighting taliban. We would be fighting Russia with nukes and 100X more capable in warfare than us, we will be fighting over at their borders not ours. If NATO is involve in any of these conflict, guaranteed China will be there for Russia. If you are ready for that then you better be ready to be hungry.

Its a waste of lives, time and money.

Be careful what you wish for valve.

[fixmusic2013]

I dont understand how people believe that these F35 is some kind of aircraft superhero that will help us if there was a dispute against Russia.

Its all a front by Harper. Russia is probably laughing at us because they have been armed to the teeth since WW2 and here comes Canada walking in with their overpriced F35's but lacking in everything military. Ohh we are ready for war now!.