buyer request return and no further contact

[olderbetterever]

I sold an over $200 item to a buyer in US. Buyer had problem of using the CD for the product and through many eBay message I had provided many download methods including zip file through emails. Buyer had not complained further but send a return request saying WIFI of product had no signal (thus product no working). This problem was not discussed at all in emails. As we all know there are many causes to no WIFI signal. Anyway, I issued a return for the sake of ending it all. In the return note, I point out that buyer is in US and I am in Canada. I can't issue a return label. Again I had no further communication from the buyer.

My questions is, 

1) Since the buyer had no further communication (as I request a return ship tracking number), does it mean the buyer is backing out the return?

2) what happen if the buyer doesn't send the product back?

3) Who would then pay the return shipping that is about $30 since I can't issue a return label?

4) The product was evaluated and tested to be fully working prior to shipping. I even take a picture of all part before shipping. What if the product returned is found to have no fault? Can I ship it back and not refund buyer? 

5) I have a return period of 7 days, buyer pays return ship. Do I have the right to refuse return shipping after 7 days? Must the buyer stick to paying return shipping if I insist? 

[femmefan1946 · Accepted solution]

1) Since the buyer had no further communication (as I request a return ship tracking number), does it mean the buyer is backing out the return?

The ball is in his court. Either he escalates or he doesn't.

No one knows what he is thinking.

2) what happen if the buyer doesn't send the product back?

He must prove return to win the case.

No return, no refund.

Provided you haven't put "no returns' in your Terms of Sale. Sometimes eBay/Paypal will take the seller at his word.

3) Who would then pay the return shipping that is about $30 since I can't issue a return label?

He pays, and when you get the item back, you refund and also refund the shipping (yeah, we know) using Paypal's Send Money service. Add the SM transaction number with the payment refund.

It's a trust thing.

Is the purchase just a CD? or is it more bulky?

He does not have to use Priority Mail. He can use the cheaper USPS First Class International Parcel Service which also offers Delivery Confirmation. Tell him that is the service you will pay for.

https://postcalc.usps.com/default.aspx

It's Section 5 > Select Shape and continue.

4) The product was evaluated and tested to be fully working prior to shipping. I even take a picture of all part before shipping. What if the product returned is found to have no fault? Can I ship it back and not refund buyer? 

No.

You can relist it and sell it.

You can add the buyer to your Blocked Bidder List.

5) I have a return period of 7 days, buyer pays return ship. Do I have the right to refuse return shipping after 7 days? Must the buyer stick to paying return shipping if I insist? 

No.

Your return policies are trumped by eBay and Paypal policies.

If you take Paypal you make refunds.

You are allowed to make refunds and refuse the return.*

Anyway 7 days from when? Payment? Delivery? Complaint? Opening of a Dispute?

With complaints like these, the seller's best policy is a smarmy eBay Message saying "Sorry you are not satisfied. Return the doomahinkney for a full refund."

Then wait.

If it is returned, send the refund.

If the buyer opens a Dispute send a message in the Dispute "Sorry you are not satisfied. Return the doomahinkney for a full refund." 

If he demands a return shipping label, respond in the Dispute that you are in Canada and no such international service is possible. You may at this point have to phone Customer Service and explain to the clerk in Utah where Canada is and why USPS does not service Canadians.

*This sounds odd, but seller's of broken china and glass do it all the time. Most will settle for a photo of the demolished item.

[olderbetterever]

Thanks for all the explanation. The item is a solar powered security camera that a software is included for WIFI transmitting video for recording on a computer. CD alone is not an issue, as I have provided many download ways including emailing zip file for the buyer. The return reason was "no WiFi signal", so who knows what the real cause of it. I am all made up my mind for the buyer to return and had it done and over. It is just that no communication is keep me thinking of it. I guess I just have to wait and see what happen. How long does a buyer has to return the item after a request is accepted?

[pjcdn2005]

The buyer has filed a return request for not as described/not working reasons so ebay requires that the seller pay return shipping. When buyer and seller are in two different countries the whole situation becomes a bit confusing because as Femme mentioned, you cannot print a return label for a buyer using USPS. However, if the buyer asks ebay to step in saying that you are not providing a return label and ebay makes a decision in the buyer's favour, you would end up getting an unresolved case defect which is something that you really don't want.

eBay doesn't specify in their MBG exactly how to handle a situation like this but if there is some trust between seller and buyer, you could suggest that you will reimburse them for the return postage once you receive the item back. At least then, you are making an attempt to fulfill ebay's return shipping requirements. But then if the buyer still asks ebay to step in, I'm not sure how they would rule. The 'safest' way is to send the shipping money ahead of time although since there is no guarantee you will actually receive the product back, I can understand why a seller wouldn't want to do that. In this case the buyer isn't responsive so that might make sending them money ahead of time more risky.

It's important that you figure out which USPS service they can use to send the item back and let them know which method you want them to send the item back and even how to pack it. If it is under 4 lbs you can have them send it back first class international but I'm not sure if insurance can be purchased with that. Priority mail is a lot more expensive but extra insurance can be purchased.   If they send it first class international, they need to purchase the label online as buying it at the post office doesn't necessarily give them any type of delivery confirmation.

It would be a lot easier if there were specific, logical policies on how to proceed in this situation.

If the buyer does not ask ebay to step in and does not enter a tracking number after 30+ days from opening the return request, the request will close on its own.

[femmefan1946]

It would be a lot easier if there were specific, logical policies on how to proceed in this situation.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

[olderbetterever]

Thanks again for all the help. I have send a message yesterday to the buyer, reminding him how to package and use First Class for the return ship and I need a tracking number. Today the eBay return report indicate a return is shipped. However, there is no word from the buyer, neither is any record of tracking number. I can only keep my fingers cross, hoping that he indeed has shipped the product back to me. A product of over $200 is too much to risk for lost. I assume it will take about a week to get back to Canada, hopefully he has marked "return to sender" (as instructed) and I don't get to pay duty again. If in case I don't receive it and he can't provide a tracking number for proof of delivery, what should I do?

[pocomocomputing · Accepted solution]

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@olderbetterever wrote:

Thanks again for all the help. I have send a message yesterday to the buyer, reminding him how to package and use First Class for the return ship and I need a tracking number. Today the eBay return report indicate a return is shipped. However, there is no word from the buyer, neither is any record of tracking number. I can only keep my fingers cross, hoping that he indeed has shipped the product back to me. A product of over $200 is too much to risk for lost. I assume it will take about a week to get back to Canada, hopefully he has marked "return to sender" (as instructed) and I don't get to pay duty again. If in case I don't receive it and he can't provide a tracking number for proof of delivery, what should I do?

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If you do not receive the item back and there is no proof of delivery to you, you win, buyer loses.

[olderbetterever]

Now I have received the item back. There is a big problem with this product. When we bought this product, because it is expansive, we tested it and evaluated it. It was working when I shipped it to this buyer. The item now returned is completely dead. Not just without WiFI signal, the "ON" indicator wasn't even lit. My tech help told me the item was burned and now a trash. I can't relist it at all. Can I not refund the buyer? I didn't have any record of showing this item was tested to be working before I shipped it out. I have only 3 days left to do a refund.

[pocomocomputing]

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@olderbetterever wrote:

Now I have received the item back. There is a big problem with this product. When we bought this product, because it is expansive, we tested it and evaluated it. It was working when I shipped it to this buyer. The item now returned is completely dead. Not just without WiFI signal, the "ON" indicator wasn't even lit. My tech help told me the item was burned and now a trash. I can't relist it at all. Can I not refund the buyer? I didn't have any record of showing this item was tested to be working before I shipped it out. I have only 3 days left to do a refund.

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Did the buyer use your item for parts? Do you see any tampering? A dishonest buyer will buy the same product they already own, swap out the parts then need to fix their own item and claim the item they just purchased is defective and return. Rare but does happen. The main unit body and serial number are not changed but parts inside are not what you sent.

Very easy to do this swap and repair. When buying used electronics, if you had say 5 defective units, a bit of testing and parts swapping will usually make 3, possibly 4 of the 5 work like new with the last just having defective parts. We did this on auctions lots (local, non-eBay) many times.

eBay will most likely side with the buyer since this becomes a buyers word against a seller.

You could contact other sellers who sold to this buyer from their feedback and ask politely if they have been scammed by this buyer. Dishonest buyers who buy for parts and file false return or threaten seller to return or refund without eBay and may commit the same type of fraud with more than one seller.

[olderbetterever]

Thanks. There is no sign of tempering. Your mention of tempering is quite surprising to me but I will pay attention to it. After I saw no indicator light on, I jumped. Later, after I posted, I notice some lights inside the product was blinking. Indeed it took a few minute to, I guess, initiate. We later then tested the WIFI, it works fine and has no problem at all. I think the buyer properly don't have the technical skill of installing plugins for the app and setting the WIFI for connection. Anyway, I still have the product that I can sell and I have taken the picture for sending it to the buyer. I send refund also and want to leave it behind. Even though I have the product back, this transaction still cost me the shipping of $60 Canadian dollars. When doing the future listing, how should I avoid situation like this happened?