Global DeMinimum

A link to bookmark for reference so that if you have an international buyer who is worried about potential import fees, you know what to tell them to expect. Remember, it's important to have stated in your listings something like the following which is from mine own Terms of Service:

 

CROSS-BORDER SHOPPING? IT IS YOUR DUTY TO PAY DUTY. KNOW YOUR LIMITS

  • International customers, please be aware fees for importing by post may apply. Duty, tariffs or import taxes when your order crosses the border are not included in your payment to us. We are not customs brokers and cannot collect duty for you upfront. Learn the rules before you bid or buy because the declared value of your item is what you paid for it

 

http://www.global-express.org/assets/files/Trade/Country%20info%20on%20de%20minimis_04082013.pdf

 

 

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Global DeMinimum


CROSS-BORDER SHOPPING? IT IS YOUR DUTY TO PAY DUTY. KNOW YOUR LIMITS

  • International customers, please be aware fees for importing by post may apply. Duty, tariffs or import taxes when your order crosses the border are not included in your payment to us. We are not customs brokers and cannot collect duty for you upfront. Learn the rules before you bid or buy because the declared value of your item is what you paid for it

 

http://www.global-express.org/assets/files/Trade/Country%20info%20on%20de%20minimis_04082013.pdf



I like that better than the  dull well-worn eBay-suggested boilerplate.  I don't see anything wrong with including this in our listings instead if we prefer.  No policy against it. 

 

What about the link. Can we use that too in a listing? 

 

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Global DeMinimum

I don't think I'd include the link. Only because, well, if the information didn't keep pace with reality it might put a seller at risk for giving bad information. And eBay may not appreciate a link to an outside source.

And, for the record, my thread headline should read Global De Minimus. Auto-correct will mess it up for me every time and this time I guess I just didn't notice that it had changed itself to an incorrectly spelled word that it preferred. I despise spelling errors. Sorry!
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Global DeMinimum

I can see how the placement of the link immediately after my Terms of Sales is misleading. I should have started with the link, so it didn't look like part of the T of S. Thank you for raising it. Anyone who wants to paraphrase what I wrote for their own listings is welcome to do so but don't include the link. Bookmark it for your own reference on de Minimus for various places but don't add it to your listings, please. I do not think eBay would like it.
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Global DeMinimum

You despise spelling errors?  Oh my, you must gouging your eyeballs out some days reading these boards.   🙂 

 


@mjwl2006 wrote:
I don't think I'd include the link. Only because, well, if the information didn't keep pace with reality it might put a seller at risk for giving bad information. And eBay may not appreciate a link to an outside source.

I wondered about that.  But its so good, and I always like to include a "Don't believe me? See for yourself" link, like when US buyers honestly would not believe the prices at Canada Post. 

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Global DeMinimum

CROSS-BORDER SHOPPING? IT IS YOUR DUTY TO PAY DUTY. KNOW YOUR LIMITS

  • International customers, please be aware fees for importing by post may apply. Duty, tariffs or import taxes when your order crosses the border are not included in your payment to us. We are not customs brokers and cannot collect duty for you upfront. Learn the rules before you bid or buy because the declared value of your item is what you paid for it

 

 

You wrote that, then?  Well that explains why it seems more "real".  I especially like the bit about "the declared value of your item is what you paid for it".  It implicitly tells people not to ask about an adjustment to the Customs form.  Actually, sellers need to know that too so they don't increase values.  Buyers already know when they got an item for a lower price than it is "worth".  I also like the "Know Your Limits" and "Learn the rules" bits.  Its high time someone came right out told it like it is.  Maybe eBay will adopt your version instead of their own because if you wrote this it is much better than theirs.  Do you mind if we all start using it? 

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Global DeMinimum

I cannot even begin to explain how disturbed I am that 'de Minimus' is misspelled in the headline title of this thread. If I could reach around and kick my own self in the butt I would do it. Argh.

 

Yes, the text is available for others to use. Thank you for allowing me to clarify that. I don't mind sharing when permission has been granted but I get super twitchy when someone just helps themselves to my whole item description and then swipes my item photos without asking. I'll give away just about anything gladly but I don't like when people just take without asking first. 

 

Manners matter!

 

Rant over.

 

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Global DeMinimum

I buy quite a bit internationally (sometimes it's the only way to get some of the collector's items I'm interested in) and many of them are much more blunt, usually along the lines of "We don't alter the declared value on the customs form. Doing so is illegal."

Personally, I prefer the direct approach.
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Global DeMinimum

The link you provide is a good reference, although I can't recall a buyer ever asking me to check on his or her country's de minimus.  I'd probably just tell them to call their nearest Customs Office, since I don't know that I'd want to be in the position of giving information to a buyer about their own importing limits, especially if it turned out to be wrong somehow.  

 

By the way, most of us can happily forget about problems with U.S. buyers importing from us, as the limit has recently been raised to $800 US if I recall correctly.  Of course, that's ignoring for the potential of the "Trump card". 

 

In the end, it really is the buyer's responsibility to know his or her own country's import rules, not the seller's job to educate, cajole, or warn.  This subject is admittedly a difficult one to navigate with the proper tone in a listing, i.e. to provide terms clear enough to transmit the basic facts, but not so harsh as to scare off buyers.  

 

Although I do believe eBay's one-line reminder is probably sufficient, and I'm not convinced most buyers read very far down a listing anyway, I still include my own wording about customs and duties, albeit in somewhat softer terms than the text you've posted.  The "Learn the rules before you bid or buy" statement comes across as unnecessarily aggressive.  While I understand your reasoning as a seller, if I read that statement as a buyer I might turn away before looking further.  

 

To be honest, I would also delete everything after "Cross-border Shopping?" in your title line.  The rest of that line, as much as it may be an accurate statement, sounds blunt and very unfriendly put in the imperative, as if you regard your buyers as uninformed trouble-makers.  The phrase "KNOW YOUR LIMITS" is really not something you want to appear to be shouting at buyers.  At least that's how I'd receive it as a buyer. 

 

The whole issue of buyer complaints over unexpected taxes or duties has become far less meaningful anyway, now that eBay feedback no longer counts for much, and now that eBay CS can look into a seller's messages to a buyer if the issue does arise.  

 

I wouldn't put the link itself into a listing (I realize you weren't suggesting this) because eBay discourages links relating to listing terms unless they are single links (in other words, dead-end links) without links to other pages outside eBay:

 

"You can include a single link to a page that gives additional detail about the terms and conditions of the sale. However, the page you link to can't include links to web pages outside of eBay, and the information on that linked page can't contradict the information in your listing." 

 

(From the policy): http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/listing-links.html

 

 

However I think it's enough to simply direct buyers to contact their country's customs office for information on what their permitted import levels are.  

 

Here, for what it's worth, is the text I use, although I've been considering removing it completely, since almost all of my sales are to the U.S. which (as noted above) now has a very, very generous de minimus.  By the way, anyone who wants to use this wording is welcome to do so (yes, I know, insurance is for us sellers, but I needed a "soft" rationale for not making under-declarations of value: 

 

"U.S. and international buyers:  We are located in Canada.  Import duties, taxes and charges by your own country are not included in the item price or shipping charges quoted in this listing.  Please check with your country's customs office to confirm what these costs will be before buying.  These charges are usually collected by your country's customs/postal service when you pick up the item -- please don't confuse them with additional shipping charges by the seller.  
 
Please do not ask us to falsify customs values or mark an item as "gift".  It is illegal to do so.  In any case we must declare the actual price an item was sold for in order to validate your insurance coverage." 
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Global DeMinimum


@rose-dee wrote:

Although I do believe eBay's one-line reminder is probably sufficient, and I'm not convinced most buyers read very far down a listing anyway, I still include my own wording about customs and duties, albeit in somewhat softer terms than the text you've posted.  The "Learn the rules before you bid or buy" statement comes across as unnecessarily aggressive.  

 

Really?  You thought it sounded aggressive?  I thought it was a good reminder.  I could be wrong, and you probably buy more than me so I would have to defer to your opinion that way.  There are so many people who really don't know about Customs, tax, VAT, all that.  Especially for someone who sells to children or young parents a lot of the time. 

 

 

To be honest, I would also delete everything after "Cross-border Shopping?" in your title line.  The rest of that line, as much as it may be an accurate statement, sounds blunt and very unfriendly put in the imperative, as if you regard your buyers as uninformed trouble-makers.  The phrase "KNOW YOUR LIMITS" is really not something you want to appear to be shouting at buyers.  At least that's how I'd receive it as a buyer. 

 

I didn't read the LIMITS phrase as being too hard either.   🙂   In my head it sounded like those catchy casino gambling one-liners, "Know your limit, Play within it".  Just a bit of reasonable advice.  Its good to have a discussion like this because I wouldn't want to be kicking people in the pants.  Not unnecessarily at least. 

 

 

"You can include a single link to a page that gives additional detail about the terms and conditions of the sale. However, the page you link to can't include links to web pages outside of eBay, and the information on that linked page can't contradict the information in your listing." 

(From the policy): http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/listing-links.html

 

 

Thanks for including that.  Links are always so helpful but generally I am too lazy to dig them all up.   I liked the featured Customs info link in this thread because I thought it would be useful information for buyers who hadn't really considered the whole import charges thing before.  But I also wondered if anything non-eBay would be allowed.  I've seen listings that had the Canada Post Rates link in them!  Too many buyers complaining about shipping costs I bet. lol!

 

Even though feedback doesn't count any more and sellers could always get FB that mentioned Customs fees removed, I still think it is a good idea to do everything possible to have a happy buyer at the end of a transaction and that includes helping them get to know about import charges. 

 

I liked that other customs info bit because it was short (good for all those phone users), fresh (unlike the dry and tired eBay suggestion), and doesn't come right out and tell people  not to ask for an altered customs form with the implied presumption that they were invariably planning to request this obviously illegal act.  Its interesting to see how different people react to different wording.  Shows there is no one really correct way of saying anything. 

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Global DeMinimum

My point in the comments I made earlier was not to criticize the content or application of the text -- both of which are completely justified --  but to question whether the tone might be received as off-putting by some buyers.  I was suggesting that there are people who will see it this way, and that might be better to soften the presentation, while still transmitting the facts.  As I said earlier, there is a fine line between informing and appearing didactic or hard, when what you really want to be doing as a seller is enticing buyers in. 

 

I've done a lot of buying on eBay over the years, and as a buyer I will avoid sellers with language in their listings that appears to "bark" orders at buyers.  I've seen a lot of this sort of thing in U.S. sellers' listings especially.  Upper case letters don't help either of course.  

 

Perhaps 'mj' has discovered that toy buyers are more uninformed, and need to be lectured in hard-nosed terms, I don't know.  I was giving my perception both as an experienced eBay buyer and seller.  I see the task of presenting ancillary information in listings as a delicate balance between informing and yet keeping the tone positive and upbeat so that buyers feel confident making a purchase from a friendly seller who will be easy to deal with.  

 

I'll mention again that I'm not convinced that including additional wording in listings about customs charges is even necessary anymore, especially if a seller's primary buyer base is in the U.S. and Canada.  As I said, with an $800 allowance for U.S. buyers, you have to be selling something pretty valuable to run beyond that limit, and chances are that people purchasing such items are already well aware of customs issues.  My experience in selling to Europe has been that Europeans are keenly aware of the VAT, etc.  

 

So I'm getting to the point where I feel that placing warnings and reminders on the subject of customs within a listing are becoming overkill in any event.  I now think I'd rather let eBay be the one to give buyers negative reminders, and let me concentrate on the positive things in my listing. 

 

All just my own view of it of course. 

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