Managed Payments for Canadians compared to using PayPal previously

[robertqc2017]

I just registered for Managed Payments recently & completed my first sale. Ebay claims you will save by registering for the Managed Payments Plan, although I compared two sales both to Ebayers in the US.  Previously the PayPal fees, Ebay Seller fees including the Insertion fee all amounted to 15%. Ebay Managed Payment came to 20% including Seller Fees, 3% Exchange Rate & 4% for selling to the US. At 20%, selling to the US is hard to take, 15% was borderline. Most likely the only way to save with Ebay's Managed Payments is to sell only in Canada, the 3% Exchange Rate & 4% for selling to a US Ebayer should not be included in the fees. I haven't sold anything as yet to Canadians with Ebay's Managed Payments to compare with PayPal previously. Has anyone else done the math to compare Managed Payments with PayPal?

[pjcdn2005]

Could you give an example of the exact dollar amounts of what you were charged on your last sale?   Since you list on .ca you are always paid in Canadian currency so there should not be a 3% currency exchange fee regardless of where your buyer is located.   The buyer pays that fee, not the seller.

I’m not in Managed Payments and can’t see the fee schedule but if the 4% fee to US buyers if correct, that is higher than what you were paying PP as they charged  a 3.7% fee for US buyers and 3.9% for other countries.  

[robertqc2017]

My example is in relation to a Seller on Ebay.ca selling to a US Buyer.

Actually the US Buyer most likely pays in US Dollars therefore Ebay Managed Payments converts it to Canadian Dollars for the 3% Fee which is charged to the Seller not the Buyer.

Previously via PayPal sold an item to a US Buyer in Canadian Dollars for $389.95 + $24.90  Shipping  Total = $414.85. PayPal Fee-  $16.72, Ebay Final Seller Fee ( Including Shipping Fee) - $47.14   $47.14 & $16.72 = $63.86,  $63.86 divided by $414.85 = .15 or 15%. The Managed Payment item sold in Canadian Dollars to a US Buyer was $99.95 + $29.90 Shipping + Ebay Tax $9.09 = $138.94  Ebay Depost $111.19,  Ebay Fee $27.75 divided by $138.94 = .199 or 20%.

[femmefan1946]

Paypal not only allows their clients to attach multiple bank accounts, but does not insist that the accounts be  in the same country as the seller's eBay registration.

This allows the Seller to list on dotCOM, be paid in US dollars, and to deposit those USD to an American account for purchases from US sellers-- or to pay the rent in Snowbird Trailer Park in Arizona.

[recped]

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@robertqc2017 wrote:

My example is in relation to a Seller on Ebay.ca selling to a US Buyer.

Actually the US Buyer most likely pays in US Dollars therefore Ebay Managed Payments converts it to Canadian Dollars for the 3% Fee which is charged to the Seller not the Buyer.

Previously via PayPal sold an item to a US Buyer in Canadian Dollars for $389.95 + $24.90  Shipping  Total = $414.85. PayPal Fee-  $16.72, Ebay Final Seller Fee ( Including Shipping Fee) - $47.14   $47.14 & $16.72 = $63.86,  $63.86 divided by $414.85 = .15 or 15%. The Managed Payment item sold in Canadian Dollars to a US Buyer was $99.95 + $29.90 Shipping + Ebay Tax $9.09 = $138.94  Ebay Depost $111.19,  Ebay Fee $27.75 divided by $138.94 = .199 or 20%.

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding your calculations.........

What is "eBay Tax"?

If you mean Sales Tax that is something paid by the BUYER not the seller.

$99.95 + $29.90 = $129.85

Amount transferred to the Seller $111.19 = total fee of $18.66 = 14.37% Fee rate

[pjcdn2005]

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@robertqc2017 wrote:

My example is in relation to a Seller on Ebay.ca selling to a US Buyer.

Actually the US Buyer most likely pays in US Dollars therefore Ebay Managed Payments converts it to Canadian Dollars for the 3% Fee which is charged to the Seller not the Buyer.

Previously via PayPal sold an item to a US Buyer in Canadian Dollars for $389.95 + $24.90  Shipping  Total = $414.85. PayPal Fee-  $16.72, Ebay Final Seller Fee ( Including Shipping Fee) - $47.14   $47.14 & $16.72 = $63.86,  $63.86 divided by $414.85 = .15 or 15%. The Managed Payment item sold in Canadian Dollars to a US Buyer was $99.95 + $29.90 Shipping + Ebay Tax $9.09 = $138.94  Ebay Depost $111.19,  Ebay Fee $27.75 divided by $138.94 = .199 or 20%.

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Both PayPal and Managed Payments charge the buyer for currency conversion, not the seller.  If the seller lists on Canadian dollars and a US buyer makes a purchase their money is transferred from US to Canadian and the buyer pays  a conversion fee.  That is how it is was done on PayPal  and now with MP.  The seller isn’t converting their money, but the buyer is so they pay the fees.

As recped said, if by ‘ebays tax’ you mean the buyers state tax, that amount is paid fully by the buyer, goes into your account briefly and then is taken out by eBay. Although you do pay fvf on that tax, the tax itself is not a fee that you paid and shouldn’t be used in figuring out the percentage.

[robertqc2017]

No idea what Ebay Tax is & who pays it, I am just going with the facts & numbers presented.

[robertqc2017]

Even if you are accurate with your calculations at 14.37 %. Where are the savings Ebay promotes? PayPal 15% - Ebay Managed Payments 14.37% Not even a 1% saving.
Although according to what is stated on the Ebay Managed Payments invoice with the Ebay Tax, the calculations = 20%.

[robertqc2017]

The whole point of my post is "Where are the savings promised by Ebay by pushing us to switch to Ebay's Managed Payment Plan?" not a debate on who pays Tax or anything else.

No matter which way you look at it, there are no savings. I preferred the PayPal system, all the Ebay fees & monthly invoices & PayPal fees were clear & consistent.

[robertqc2017]

The other issue I noticed with Ebay's Managed Payments is that I am now directed to print prepaid shipping labels with Shippo. Previously I could compare shipping costs with PayPal's shipping costs in a convenient, non complicated manner. PayPal shipping was excellent for pricing & options. I wouldn't be surprised now that Shippo has no competition for printing shipping labels within the Ebay system,  the prices will slowly increase in time.

[ypdc_dennis]

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@robertqc2017 wrote:

The other issue I noticed with Ebay's Managed Payments is that I am now directed to print prepaid shipping labels with Shippo. Previously I could compare shipping costs with PayPal's shipping costs in a convenient, non complicated manner. PayPal shipping was excellent for pricing & options. ...

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eBay announced plans for their own in-house shipping label system (which is still not ready for Canada) which would be an alternative to Shippo. Supposedly label payment could come directly from your MP sales money.

While Shippo is more complicated, the  PayPal shipping discounts for Canada Post are the same.

Still want Paypal: then cut and paste using paypal.com/shipnow

These days Paypal is pushing NetParcel Shipping over their own PayPal Shipping (Canada Post and UPS)

...

As for MP saving money in fees, that was only true in the beginning when it was first rolled out. Which was before eBay was forced (like other large marketplaces) into collecting internet sales tax. Currently that is sales tax for most states in the USA, plus Australia, Singapore and Norway. In 2021 the UK and the EU will join the sales tax club. The seller cost (in fees) for sales tax money management is much higher through MP than when handled through paypal.

-.-

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@robertqc2017 wrote:

The other issue I noticed with Ebay's Managed Payments is that I am now directed to print prepaid shipping labels with Shippo. Previously I could compare shipping costs with PayPal's shipping costs in a convenient, non complicated manner. PayPal shipping was excellent for pricing & options. I wouldn't be surprised now that Shippo has no competition for printing shipping labels within the Ebay system,  the prices will slowly increase in time.

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Once/if you set up a Solution for Small Business account with Canadapost any discount you have can be attached to Shippo. To date I have found no way to connect my account with Paypal and my discount. The Shippo system does take some getting used to if you've been using PayPal all along. I've been using Shippo for well over 2 years and no major issues.

2 subtle differences with the recent changes to Shippo are for HS code for customs it's 6 numbers without a dot or dash(You get an error message but doesn't specify the error when you attempt to print) and the shipping option choices when they appear come up in random order vs lower to higher or as per the buyers choice.

-Lotz

[reallynicestamps]

If PP charges 15% in fees and MP charges 14.5% -- the saving is tiny, even infinitesimal, but it is still a saving.

Although MP defaults to Shippo, you can still use SnapShip(Canada Post) labels, or even postage stamps to pay for shipping.

Here are the HS codes from Canada Post.

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/wtz/business/findHsCode?execution=e1s1

The advantage to using HS Codes is that you can fuzzify the actual item (gold and diamond necklace as metal chain) and have the correct code to identify it for duty.

[7366carl]

Just so you know its not 4% fee for selling to the USA, its .4%.

But doing the math I have found there is significant savings selling on .com rather than .ca because the exchange fee when you sell on .com is on the net after all fees. On .ca the exchange rate is paid on the gross. Before someone says it, saying that the buyer pays the exchange rate cost so it doesn't count as a fee is like saying free shipping is free! It comes out of the total a buyer was willing to pay us.

This exchange fee amount difference between .com and .ca on a $100 is almost 50 cents. Not insignificant.

The only question I have is do Canadian sellers and buyers get double dinged if selling on .com. Does eBay convert the buyers Canadians $ to USA$ and then convert it back again from USA$ to C$? I don't know the answer to that.

[reallynicestamps]

Managed Payments will not allow Canadians to attach American bank accounts.

And we can only have one bank account attached.

That account must be a chequing account.

If we list on dotCOM and get paid in US dollars those dollars are converted to loonies and exported to our Canadian bank.
If that bank account is in loonies, fine we can now spend those loonies.

If that bank account is in US dollars, the payment (now converted to loonies) is converted back to US dollars.

With Paypal not only can we attach multiple accounts both chequing and savings.

But we can attach accounts in other countries, such as an American bank account* to accept US dollar payments.

We can then use PP to pay for purchases in the USA drawing from that US dollar balance.

Or we can move that US dollar balance to our Canadian US dollar account** without paying currency exchange.

All of which gives me a headache to think about, so I will now go lie down with a cologne soaked lace hankie on my forehead.

*Think CitiBank or RBCBank or TDNorth. Licensed in the USA and balances held in US dollars.

**At any rate, we can move US dollars from RBCBank to the Royal Bank of Canada, or from TDNorth to TDCanadaTrust if we have US dollar accounts in those Canadian banks.

[7366carl]

I agree with all that. But I'm not sure how it relates to what I said or the topic? I'm not trying to be rude in saying that. Just curious. 

For me fighting against the PayPal change is a lost cause. But maybe because I never used US currency for purchases and actually prefer having managed payments. One less step. However I still find all the numerous separate fees confusing.

Listing fee

Exchange fee

International fee

Final Value fee

Plus you can't even see the exchange fee amount. You have to calculate it yourself! I prefer transparency when it comes to fees rather than having to read the fine print.

But what I want to know is the answer to the questions I had.

Plus is what I said correct or not? Are the fees under managed payments higher on .ca than .com. Or is my math wrong. I'll probably make a new post asking.

[pjcdn2005]

But doing the math I have found there is significant savings selling on .com rather than .ca because the exchange fee when you sell on .com is on the net after all fees. On .ca the exchange rate is paid on the gross. Before someone says it, saying that the buyer pays the exchange rate cost so it doesn't count as a fee is like saying free shipping is free! It comes out of the total a buyer was willing to pay us.

I would have to see your math because I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. If you list an item on .ca for $100 and someone in the US buys it from you, you receive the money in$C.  If your fees are 12.5% then you would pay 12.50 plus the international percentage fee. The net gets deposited into your Canadian bank account. I don't see any actual or hidden conversion amounts in there.  I'm not in MP yet so the percentage used is just an example. 

I'm not absolutely certain how it works when you list on .com but if you had that same item listed for $70US and someone in the US purchased it, you would still pay the same percentage in fees and the international fee.  I'm going to guess the fees would be based on the $US amount the item sold for and then the net would be converted to Canadian $ and deposited to your bank account.  

If someone who uses MP is list on .com could give us an example of fees on a specific transaction that would be great.

The only question I have is do Canadian sellers and buyers get double dinged if selling on .com. Does eBay convert the buyers Canadians $ to USA$ and then convert it back again from USA$ to C$? I don't know the answer to that.

On Paypal if a Canadian buyer purchases an item listed on .com their Canadian dollars get converted to US dollars and the seller receives that money in $US.  Afaik it would work the same in MP BUT before the seller actually receives that money, it would have to be converted to Canadian $ so that it could be deposited.   Buyer would pay one set of conversion fees and seller would pay one set of conversion fees.

[pjcdn2005]

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@7366carl wrote:

I agree with all that. But I'm not sure how it relates to what I said or the topic? I'm not trying to be rude in saying that. Just curious. 

For me fighting against the PayPal change is a lost cause. But maybe because I never used US currency for purchases and actually prefer having managed payments. One less step. However I still find all the numerous separate fees confusing.

Listing fee

Exchange fee

International fee

Final Value fee

Plus you can't even see the exchange fee amount. You have to calculate it yourself! I prefer transparency when it comes to fees rather than having to read the fine print.

But what I want to know is the answer to the questions I had.

Plus is what I said correct or not? Are the fees under managed payments higher on .ca than .com. Or is my math wrong. I'll probably make a new post asking.

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You sell on .ca so what exchange fee are you referring to?  Can you give an example of what you were billed after one item sold?

[rav-records]

Just log in to PayPal & use PayPal shipping.

[7366carl]

exchange rate $70USD=$100 CDN or USD 1.4286 to cdn

If somone in the USA buy from you on .ca
The $70 us is exchanged for $100 cdn.(70*1.4286)
But there is a 3% fee
$2.60 cdn exchange fee which is paid by the buyer (70*1.4286)-(70*1.3914)
$12.50 listing fee of 12.5%
40 cents interntal fee of .4%
Total fees paid on transaction $15.50 cdn
$84.50 is net

If someone in the USA buy from you on .com
$8.75 listing fee of 12.5%
.30 cents international fee of .4%(approx)
Leaving $60.95 USA to be exchanged into CDN
$87.07 (60.95*1.4286)
$2.26 FEE (60.95*1.4286)-(60.95*1.3914)
$84.81 is net