eBay

pierrelebel · ‎04-22-2015

In the "good old days" eBay.ca has always recommended listing in US$ instead of Cdn$ on the basis that Canadian sellers would have more chance of success listing in US$.

Times are changing.

Today, during the Weekly Board Hour, eBay.ca advises:

"In a nutshell, according to our analysis, all Canadian sellers would either see a positive or neutral impact on their sales if they start listing in CAD. Essentially, our old data that suggested better sales for USD listings has been disproved. The SYI will be modified shortly to reflect this reality, and we've made the changes to the quick listing tool last week.

Additionally, we've started engaging with large Canadian merchants to recommend that they also list in CAD if possible."

pierrelebel · ‎04-23-2015

"pierrelebel wrote: "In a nutshell,..."

I wish the board could work differently so a quote could be properly credited to the writer.

These were not my words, I was merely quoting Raphael from eBay.ca

How much credibility to give to the post by eBay.ca staff explaining the change of policy? Each seller will make that decision independently.

Was eBay.ca correct for fifteen years in suggesting Canadian sellers list in US$ or did circumstances really change recently so that listing in Cdn$ is now more beneficial to Canadian sellers?

Putting too much emphasis on fluctuations in the current currency exchange rate, I think, is missing the point. Canadian sellers are smart, they are aware and understand the value of the currency, more so than most sellers anywhere in the world. As such, if an item is worth US$100.00 in the marketplace (American or overseas) a Canadian seller would know to list for Cdn$ 125.00 (give or take a bit, based on daily fluctuations).

The question becomes: will buyers in the USA or overseas react negatively? Does it matter for buyers in Europe or Asia who have to convert from their local currency in any case?

Will there be substantially more interest from Canadian buyers - paying in Cdn$ - who no longer have to pay the conversion fee (hidden in the price)?

Does it really matter to Canadian sellers to "save" the PayPal currency conversion fee (hidden in the exchange rate paid by PayPal)?

Personally, I do not rely on data from eBay to make that decision. I make decisions based on factual information as it affects my business. On that basis, and after giving considerable weight to the many options available, I switched most of my listings to Canadian dollars several years ago.

Results? I am not complaining.

I may have lost some profit on sales to a few buyers reluctant to see a price in Cdn$ but those few losses were made up by increased sales to Canadians appreciating their could pay in their own currency.

Most of my competitors are still listing in US$.

Plus, as a bonus, I saved a lot of money in PayPal conversion fees and eBay fees (billed in Cdn$ instead of US$ when listing in Cdn$). That is a 20% - 25% saving right there!

Different sellers will experience different results.

rose-dee · ‎04-23-2015

@cumos55 wrote:

If eBay says Canadians must sell in Canadian dollars..... then who benefits... It should always be the seller's choice.

You've asked precisely the right question I think, and the most important one -- this was exactly my point as well. It's essential whenever eBay makes these kind of sweeping statements to ask who will benefit, what is the underlying purpose?

So who will benefit? Presumably Paypal, for one. Perhaps US sellers in general, for another. Will this statement by eBay be the premise upon which they force Canadian sellers to list in $US (by removing the $US option in the SYI form, for example)? If Canadian sellers have to list in $Cdn, how will that shift the competition scenario? It may be fine for larger seller with an established US buyer base, but how will it impact smaller sellers?

You may have noticed in the links to search results that Pierre posted that the location ("Canada") of the item is now displayed. This wasn't the case in previous years, at least not that I can recall. In other words, a US buyer seeing a $US listing in search wouldn't have known they were looking at a foreign seller. Now they do. I consider this a rather sinister sign of things to come.

Taken together with the "cart disconnect" problem, the issue of currency/price display fluctuations, and showing "Canada" in search, obliging Canadians to list in $Cdn could result in a real handicap for many of us. I wish I didn't have to think that what eBay has in store for us is not always to our benefit, but I'm very dubious at this point.

tobyshitzu · ‎04-23-2015

No idea where anyone gets they intend to "force Canadians to list in CAN$" from this?!

Nor how there could be any kind of conspiracy afoot to benefit paypal. Paypal would be a loser if all Canadians start listing in CAN$!! There is always or virtually always going to be a currency conversion involved in the transaction or withdrawal when a Canadian and American or elsewhere transact. Ebay's suggestion to list in CAN$ will eliminate the 5% double conversion when two Canadians transact on a US$ listing

rose-dee · ‎04-23-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
"pierrelebel wrote: "In a nutshell,..."
I wish the board could work differently so a quote could be properly credited to the writer.
These were not my words, I was merely quoting Raphael from eBay.ca

Yes Pierre, I was aware, of course, that these were Raphael's words, I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear in my response.

Plus, as a bonus, I saved a lot of money in PayPal conversion fees and eBay fees (billed in Cdn$ instead of US$ when listing in Cdn$). That is a 20% - 25% saving right there!

The same thing occurs in reverse, doesn't it? In other words, if I list in $US and pay eBay fees in $US, no conversion rate applies?

I'm not sure I understand the 20% - 25% savings rate on the billing side. If you list and sell an item for $100 Cdn, the eBay FVF will be based on the $100 Cdn, but surely the listing price would have to be competitive as a converted $US price? In other words, if I were to list exactly the same item as yours, knowing its value was $100 Cdn, I'd list it for the ca. $80 US, so my FVFs in $US would be 20%-25% lower than yours in any event. Would they not? I don't see how listing in $Cdn saves that much unless you're devaluing items by 20-25%.

At the moment I personally list in $US and buy all my shipping labels and shipping supplies in $Cdn, so although I pay the Paypal conversion fees, I am saving on the 20-25% currency exchange -- that savings has been a big help in being able to continue to offer discounted shipping to my buyers.

"Different sellers will experience different results."

As always, very true.

berubegirl · ‎04-23-2015

We list in both currencies, Canadian and USA so your question is pointless.

Listing in both currencies allows us to see the true trend in currencies and selling advantages unlike sellers that do not even have any active listings.

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-23-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:

I may have lost some profit on sales to a few buyers reluctant to see a price in Cdn$ but those few losses were made up by increased sales to Canadians appreciating their could pay in their own currency.
Most of my competitors are still listing in US$.
Plus, as a bonus, I saved a lot of money in PayPal conversion fees and eBay fees (billed in Cdn$ instead of US$ when listing in Cdn$). That is a 20% - 25% saving right there!

Different sellers will experience different results.

I wouldn't be surprised if their overall results did show that listing in Cdn$ had a neutral or positive impact. As you suggest, if some sellers listing in Canadian lost some of their U.S. business, that loss in sales might likely be made up by Canadian buyers.

In my case, I use both currencies, depending on the category of the item and where the item is listed. I've never been convinced that listing in U.S. $ was the best way but I've never tried to prove or disprove that theory. If I decided to put all of my listings on .ca I don't know if I would change to Canadian currency but I would probably consider it or perhaps do some tests first.

rose-dee · ‎04-23-2015

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
"No idea where anyone gets they intend to "force Canadians to list in CAN$" from this?!"

Well, this was my deduction based on the fact that the comment made by Raphael was unequivocal, unsubstantiated and illogical, and on the fact that Canadians are suddenly being forced to list in $Cdn. You'll see from today's session that Raphael stated that since last week Canadians using the simplified SYI form are now being obliged to list in $Cdn only. He mentioned this new SYI format is intended to "assist" new sellers. The question is whether that SYI form is the one that new sellers will be seeing (and using) first.

If so, new sellers may not realize there is another option elsewhere, and after a while a bigger and bigger proportion of Canadian sellers will be listing in $Cdn.

Sorry, but all of this is too much coincidence, even for me.

"Nor how there could be any kind of conspiracy afoot to benefit paypal. Paypal would be a loser if all Canadians start listing in CAN$!! There is always or virtually always going to be a currency conversion involved in the transaction or withdrawal when a Canadian and American or elsewhere transact. Ebay's suggestion to list in CAN$ will eliminate the 5% double conversion when two Canadians transact on a US$ listing."

While the latter statement may be true, I would still bet that the largest majority of Canadian eBay sellers' sales don't go to Canadians. Paypal would stand to make far more money through $Cdn/US (or overseas) conversions if eBay obliged Canadian sellers to list and sell only in $Cdn.

tobyshitzu · ‎04-23-2015

Paypal gets the same exchange regardless of currency when An American and almost all Canadians transact. The only difference is who pays and when. The US$ the american paid ends up converted by paypal when the Canadian withdraws, being few have a way to get it out otherwise. If someone overseas buys from a Canadian, they convert when they buy regardless of a US$ or CAN$ listing. But if its in US$ its going to be converted by paypal again for the Canadian to get the money out

rose-dee · ‎04-23-2015

pjcdn2005 wrote:

"I wouldn't be surprised if their overall results did show that listing in Cdn$ had a neutral or positive impact."

My problem with Raphael's statement was that completely unsubstantiated word "all", as in "all Canadian sellers would either see a positive or neutral impact on their sales if they start listing in CAD". That is utter nonsense. It's impossible to extrapolate to make this sort of claim.

Secondly, I'm not sure Pierre's comment applies, as I mentioned above. Yes, he may be paying 20-20% less in FVFs, but (as in my example), I would be listing the same items at a 20-25% lower price in $US. It's really a bit of a red herring. That is, unless Canadian sellers significantly devalue their listed items to enable them to show lower prices, but then what would be the point? To pay lower FVFs on lower profit. This doesn't quite make sense.

"As you suggest, if some sellers listing in Canadian lost some of their U.S. business, that loss in sales might likely be made up by Canadian buyers."

While I'm sure this might be the case for some sellers, I personally never found it to be so. I listed in $Cdn for a couple of years but found that when I switched to listing in $US, my US sales increased. For sellers like me whose main customer base is in the US (more than 90% in my case), I'd be shooting myself in the foot to switch to listing in $Cdn, since the lost US sales would not be offset by increased Canadian sales. I just don't see the point for those of us who sell primarily to the U.S.

And I certainly don't see the logic in Raphael's suggesting that their "analysis" shows that all Canadian sellers would either benefit or have a neutral result -- I'd even say it's a bit ludicrous to make such a statement unless he (and by that I mean eBay) has another agenda in play.

What's the use of switching if the result could well be neutral? Why would a seller like me give up the benefit of being able to list in the currency that the vast majority of my buyers are familiar with, in order to switch to a floating currency that would not only look odd to my buyers, but also likely bounce around in value depending on the day of the week? No, I see only trouble in that for sellers in my situation.

For these reasons I'm highly suspicious of the motives behind Raphael's (read: eBay's) statements of this type. I see it as the sort of disingenuous stroking eBay feels is necessary to get sellers used to an unpalatable idea before it's launched.

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-23-2015

@rose-dee wrote:
@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
"No idea where anyone gets they intend to "force Canadians to list in CAN$" from this?!"

Well, this was my deduction based on the fact that the comment made by Raphael was unequivocal, unsubstantiated and illogical, and on the fact that Canadians are suddenly being forced to list in $Cdn. You'll see from today's session that Raphael stated that since last week Canadians using the simplified SYI form are now being obliged to list in $Cdn only. He mentioned this new SYI format is intended to "assist" new sellers. The question is whether that SYI form is the one that new sellers will be seeing (and using) first.

If so, new sellers may not realize there is another option elsewhere, and after a while a bigger and bigger proportion of Canadian sellers will be listing in $Cdn.

New sellers do see that form first and although I don't agree that it makes sense to only give the Cdn$ option on that form, I don't think that they are 'forcing' anyone to list in Canadian dollars because they are not removing the option to do so.

I do think eBay often thrives on overkill as well as micro managing. They could have simply removed the suggestion that U.S. $ be used and that alone would have probably have made new sellers list in $C. But I don't see any conspiracy here.

As far as I know this is the only site that does have the option of posting in dual currency. I believe that we are also the only country that is not charged an extra 1 % when a U.S. buyer makes a purchase from us. We do have some advantages even though some prefer to ignore that.

Sorry, but all of this is too much coincidence, even for me.

"Nor how there could be any kind of conspiracy afoot to benefit paypal. Paypal would be a loser if all Canadians start listing in CAN$!! There is always or virtually always going to be a currency conversion involved in the transaction or withdrawal when a Canadian and American or elsewhere transact. Ebay's suggestion to list in CAN$ will eliminate the 5% double conversion when two Canadians transact on a US$ listing."

New sellers do see that form first and although I don't agree that it makes sense to only give the Cdn$ option on that form, I don't think that they are 'forcing' anyone to list in Canadian dollars because they are not removing the option to do so.

I do think eBay often thrives on overkill as well as micro managing. They could have simply removed the suggestion that U.S. $ be used and that alone would have probably have made new sellers list in $C. But that does make it a conspiracy.

As far as I know this is the only site that does have the option of posting in dual currency. I believe that we are also the only country that is not charged an extra 1 % when a U.S. buyer makes a purchase from us. We do have some advantages even though some prefer to ignore that.

While the latter statement may be true, I would still bet that the largest majority of Canadian eBay sellers' sales don't go to Canadians. Paypal would stand to make far more money through $Cdn/US (or overseas) conversions if eBay obliged Canadian sellers to list and sell only in $Cdn.

I agree that the majority of Canadian sellers buyers are in the U.S. so yes, Paypal would make more money from a U.S. buyer if the seller listed in Canadian. However, they would probably lose the same or a similar amount when the seller transferred their Canadian funds into their bank account.

cumos55 · ‎04-23-2015

Canadians understand the difference between the US dollar and the Canadian dollar.

It is something we live with... constantly.... we see it in pricing on books.. a US price... side-by-side... with a Canadian price.

Today... two years ago... or 12 years ago...

-----------------------------------------

How many Americans know that Canada exists... or that we have a different currency than they do

We have a Free Trade Agreement... Canada ... US... and Mexico ... but no... uniform ... money agreement.

----------------------------

We have nothing like the ... European Union... with a Euro as currency .. and why some countries chose to have a currency different than the Euro...

rose-dee · ‎04-23-2015

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
Paypal gets the same exchange regardless of currency when An American and almost all Canadians transact. The only difference is who pays and when. The US$ the american paid ends up converted by paypal when the Canadian withdraws, being few have a way to get it out otherwise. If someone overseas buys from a Canadian, they convert when they buy regardless of a US$ or CAN$ listing. But if its in US$ its going to be converted by paypal again for the Canadian to get the money out

It's not so much a question of who pays how much and when, but rather what proportion of business is involved on one side or the other. My guess would be that Canadian sellers, generally speaking, sell far more to US buyers than to Canadian buyers. Which can only benefit Paypal in the long run, especially if most of those Canadian sellers are listing on eBay in $Cdn.

If a Canadian seller lists in $Cdn and sells to an American, there is a conversion fee. If that Canadian seller lists in $US and sells to a US buyer, there is no fee (until the Canadian seller wants to withdraw his Paypal money -- but see below).

As far as withdrawals from Paypal of $US by a Canadian seller, I'm sure many (like me) use those US funds to purchase goods and supplies for our business in $US, avoiding conversion fees.

In the final analysis, it's a question of sellers being able to make the choice that best suits them. What I don't like is being psychologically primed by eBay, via their specious "analyses", to get us used to the idea that we may have no choice at some point.

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-23-2015

You list reasons why you don't want to switch but no one is asking you to switch and there is no proof that is in the works. There are lots of 'what if's' in the world. I find that in most cases, it is a waste of time to worry about them.

In your words, Raphael's statement is unsubstantiated. Since we don't have access to the results, we have no idea if they are unsubstantiated to him or not. Perhaps he should have used the worlds 'overall' rather than 'all'....I don't know, but you don't know either and we can only draw conclusions.

You mentioned in another post that the location Canada now shows on the search page. The format has varied but it has been possible to have the seller's country shown up on that page as long as I can remember.

tobyshitzu · ‎04-23-2015

I do not agree that only canadians can understand currencies. The CAN$ sellers certainly get lots of American and overseas buyers without problem . Being ebay displays the local currency conversion on sites around the world, and paypal handles the exchange it just isn't an issue

That was no doubt a big reason for ebay having that "15% more likely to sell" 15 years ago, when we were sending money orders and cheques back and forth, and Americans had no viable way to mail CAN$ funds. That was eliminated by going paypal only

rose-dee · ‎04-23-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
New sellers do see that form first and although I don't agree that it makes sense to only give the Cdn$ option on that form, I don't think that they are 'forcing' anyone to list in Canadian dollars because they are not removing the option to do so.

Not yet, 'pj', but my guess is that this bizarre statement today by Raphael, coupled with the recent change to the simplified SYI form, means something is on the horizon.

Once they have enough of a "critical mass" of new sellers who are used to listing only in $Cdn, they'll probably quietly remove the $US option elsewhere, without informing anybody. Isn't that the eBay way? I'd actually put some money on it, although exactly how long it might take to do this magical switcheroo is another story.

"As far as I know this is the only site that does have the option of posting in dual currency. I believe that we are also the only country that is not charged an extra 1 % when a U.S. buyer makes a purchase from us."

Yes, but this is precisely what begs the question of why eBay would want to encourage Canadian sellers to list in $Cdn. Why bother? They already have the means of permitting sellers to list in the most popular currency in the world ($US), so why not stick with it? It would have made far more logical sense to me had Raphael said they'd changed the SYI form to $US only -- we Canadians all know how to deal with $US and what our currency is worth in relation to it on any given day.

No, I think there is more to this than a silly attempt to convince us their "analysis" shows we'd all be at least no worse off listing in $Cdn.

All I can say is -- we shall see what comes of all this. One thing I've observed with Raphael is that no statement of his is just spontaneous musing.

tobyshitzu · ‎04-23-2015

Maybe there is no conspiracy, and they actually know that Canadian sellers do better when they list in CAN$. They would have enormous amounts of data to get that from.

rose-dee · ‎04-23-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
You list reasons why you don't want to switch but no one is asking you to switch and there is no proof that is in the works. There are lots of 'what if's' in the world. I find that in most cases, it is a waste of time to worry about them.

I'm not worried, but I don't like surprises either. It's tough enough to compete these days on eBay. I like to be prepared, to anticipate what I might have to be dealing with a few months hence, even if it means reading a little between eBay's opaque lines.

"In your words, Raphael's statement is unsubstantiated. Since we don't have access to the results, we have no idea if they are unsubstantiated to him or not."

Precisely, and there's the rub!

EBay is forever making unequivocal statements without providing anybody access to the background foundation to support those statements. They can pretty much say anything they like.

I choose not to swallow such a pronouncement hook, line and sinker without taking a closer look at what motive might be behind it. What gave Raphael away in this particular instance was that -- if you'll pardon the repetition of a Shakespearean quotation -- "methinks the lady doth protest too much". His statement was simply too neat, too perfect, too all-encompassing, unequivocal and glib. Nary a twitch of qualification. It sounded far too much like a prepared piece of spin, so I'm wondering -- what's in the works?

You mentioned in another post that the location Canada now shows on the search page. The format has varied but it has been possible to have the seller's country shown up on that page as long as I can remember.

Yes it has varied, but has never been as prominent nor as large that I can recall. Now it's very, very noticeable.

rose-dee · ‎04-23-2015

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
Maybe there is no conspiracy, and they actually know that Canadian sellers do better when they list in CAN$. They would have enormous amounts of data to get that from.

I've not said there is any "conspiracy", simply that eBay will do first and foremost whatever benefits eBay's shareholders' bottom line, even if it may create a disadvantage for some sectors of its users.

As a result, I don't believe eBay always has the best interests of sellers top of mind when making such statements. I tend to lean towards looking for other motives. I simply think that in this case eBay is trying to obliquely introduce what they know might be an unpopular idea by telling us their analyses say it's beneficial for all of us.

They might have enormous amounts of data, but they'll never tell us how that data breaks down. Without that information, making an unequivocal statement such as this is meaningless. In the end, we'll all have to make up our own minds whether to believe them or not.

pierrelebel · ‎04-23-2015

"The same thing occurs in reverse, doesn't it? In other words, if I list in $US and pay eBay fees in $US, no conversion rate applies? "

Think about it. If you pay eBay fees in US$, as a Canadian where does the money come from?

Some sellers may use US$ funds in their PayPal account and pay their eBay fees that way. Then no conversion takes place but ultimately, the seller may end up paying more money for the service.,

For example, the listing fee for many sellers is $0.30 (I understand different sellers have different fee schedule).

Your listing price may be Cdn$ 25.00 or US$ 20.00

If you list in Cdn$, you will be charged Cdn$ 0.30

If you list in US$, you will be charged US$0.30 - which, regardless how you pay your fees, will ultimately cost you more than having paid Cdn$ 0.30 for the same service.