Bought an item a long time ago (2015) still have not received it. Seller has become NARU.

[boowootoo]

I have bought an item from a seller a long time ago, which was a pre-order item and would've been released on Nov 10, 2015, but the seller has claimed to have shipped them out and it is December now and it still has not arrived. Of coarse, I've grown concerned and the seller has become NARU and when I contact him anywhere else, he does not respond.

[pjcdn2005]

If you paid with Paypal you can file an item not received claim with them for up to 180 days after the purchase.

eBay allows you to file a claim for up to 30 days after estimated arrival time.

[momcqueen]

I'm not sure paypal will cover the buyer on this one. This is what they say: "PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis, only if the seller guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase and clearly identifies the item as a pre-sale. PayPal may apply additional conditions, such as proof of the seller's ability to successfully deliver the product: supplier information, purchase invoices, shipping information, or proof of delivery." It's from https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/article/FAQ1488/3

Did you pay with a credit card? I hope so. Call about a charge back. Have all your details on hand.

Pre-sales are a sticky, tangly place to venture into both as a seller and buyer. 

Best of luck to you.

[dmil8030]

Hello 'boowootoo', 

<< I have bought . . . a pre-order item . . . released on Nov 10, 2015, . . . the seller has become NARU . . .>>

Whenever you have an undelivered item from a NARU seller, that  means it is time to file to get your money back.  

This far along ebay won't help, but from a paypal account you can file for an Item Not Received up to 

180 days (nearly 6 months) from when you paid.  Go to the Resolution Center in your paypal account.  

Mention that the seller is no longer a registered user in your claim, - it will speed up the refund.

If that is no use and you paid with a credit card, you can call the 1-800 Customer Service number on the back

of the card and inquire about a chargeback.  You will need all the transaction details in front of you when you call, 

and again, explain that the seller is no longer registered and has basically just disappeared with your money.

Purchase protection varies from card to card, but it is a free call to find out all about yours.  

For future reference, this here is ebay's info page about what to do when there is a problem with an order.  

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/item-not-received.html

And if you are curious, here is what ebay says about pre-order items and the expected availability, such as their

being ready to go within 30 days of purchase:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/pre-sale.html

For now though, start by getting your money back on this one.

Best of luck 

[dmil8030]

PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis, only if the seller guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase

Well that's weird.  The paypal page clearly says 20 days.  Yet the ebay page clearly says 30 days:

If you want to list presale items, you must meet all of the following criteria:

• Guarantee that the item will be available for shipping within 30 days from the purchase date.

So if a reputable seller who has every intention of following correct guidelines wishes to list pre-sale items, 

which guidelines should she follow?  Who should she assume to be right?

Would it be so hard for ebay and paypal to see that their policies match? 

[marnotom!]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

I'm not sure paypal will cover the buyer on this one. This is what they say: "PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis, only if the seller guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase and clearly identifies the item as a pre-sale. PayPal may apply additional conditions, such as proof of the seller's ability to successfully deliver the product: supplier information, purchase invoices, shipping information, or proof of delivery." It's from https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/article/FAQ1488/3

Did you pay with a credit card? I hope so. Call about a charge back. Have all your details on hand.

---

My sense is that any sort of butt-covering being alluded to in that PayPal article is referring to the seller, not the buyer.  PayPal wants to avoid chargebacks at every opportunity as they're expensive to deal with, so I'd say that the chargeback route should only be pursued if PayPal proves unwilling to reverse the transaction.

[pjcdn2005]

I agree that it seems to refer to the seller, not the buyer.

When I looked at the User Agreement - Protection for Buyers, they don't specifically mention in that area that pre sale items are not eligible.

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#13

However, in section 13.3 of that area, ineligible items for buyer protection include:

Items prohibited under the Acceptable Use Policy

When I clicked on the Acceptable Use Policy it states that  you may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

3(d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item

So...I don't know how they interpret that but if I were the OP, I would definitely file with Paypal to see what they say.

[momcqueen]

I cannot find the time to look for the text I'm thinking of but I remember that in the last update to the paypal user agreement -- maybe it was almost a year ago? but it was the one where coverage changed from 45 days to 180 to make a claim so it was the big one -- the user agreement changed also to stipulate that pre-sales and pick-ups were NOT covered by the agreement. Of course, there were exceptions. Again, this is from memory only. This part of that update caught my attention only because I allow Pickups at the Door and stipulate Cash only for that kind of transaction.

If anyone wants to comb through that last update to the user agreement to look at what I am relying on from memory, please start with the changes that were part of the 180-day announcement. It was pre-split with ebay. That's all I can recall. And it may be that my memory of it is flawed. If so, please elaborate on the facts as they truly stand.

Best of luck.

Nonetheless, the Original Poster should absolutely file for an Item Not Received starting with paypal first and then, hopefully, the credit card used to back it.

[marnotom!]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

I cannot find the time to look for the text I'm thinking of but I remember that in the last update to the paypal user agreement -- maybe it was almost a year ago? but it was the one where coverage changed from 45 days to 180 to make a claim so it was the big one -- the user agreement changed also to stipulate that pre-sales and pick-ups were NOT covered by the agreement. Of course, there were exceptions. Again, this is from memory only. This part of that update caught my attention only because I allow Pickups at the Door and stipulate Cash only for that kind of transaction.

If anyone wants to comb through that last update to the user agreement to look at what I am relying on from memory, please start with the changes that were part of the 180-day announcement. It was pre-split with ebay. That's all I can recall. And it may be that my memory of it is flawed. If so, please elaborate on the facts as they truly stand.

Best of luck.

---

This is what I've found in five minutes of searching the Canadian user agreement effective 1 July 2015:

From section 11.3, which deals with seller protection:

• It is recommended that you ship the item within 7 Days of receipt of payment. Or, if the payment is for pre-ordered or made-to-order goods, shipment is required within the timeframe specified in your item listing.

From section 13.3, which deals with buyer protection:

Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

• Real estate, including residential property
• Businesses
• Vehicles, including motor vehicles, motorcycles, caravans, aircraft and boats
• Significantly Not As Described issues for Custom made items
• Items prohibited under the Acceptable Use Policy
• For Item Not Received claims, items which you collect in person, or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including at the retail point of sale
• Industrial machinery used in manufacturing
• Items equivalent to cash, including prepaid or gift cards
• PayPal Direct Payments
• Virtual Terminal Payments
• Personal Payments

The prohibition on items collected in person is there, but I see nothing for pre-orders/pre-sales in neither the user agreement nor the page devoted to the Acceptable Use Policy.

[pjcdn2005]

I think that the update that you are referring to is from Jan 7, 2015.  The only line that I see that is in regarding to buyer protection for pickups is under section 13.3 which shows which items are ineligible for paypal buyer protection. I don't see any mention of pre sales there. 

Items which you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including items bought through In-Store Checkout at the retail point of sale

Actually, that wording was just changed slightly in that update. I know that long before that I had quoted the Paypal User Agreement about how it didn't cover items that were picked up. There is a mention of 'custom made' items in that same section and I don't remember seeing that line previously. Could that be what you are thinking of?

Significantly Not As Described issues for Custom-made items

[pjcdn2005]

I just realized how late it is and I'm running behind but wanted to post this although it is slightly off topic....

There was a change made regarding pick ups that I don't see in any 'update' info but it is on the current user agreement.

It is is also in 13.3 which defines items that are ineligible for buyer protection.  It specifies that an item not received claim cannot be filed for an item that is picked up. That seems to suggest that an item not as described claim can be filed for an item that was picked up. In the past, it stated that no claims could be filed for items that were picked up. This new distinction is fairly recent and seems to have been quietly slipped in.

• For Item Not Received claims, items which you collect in person, or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including at the retail point of sale

Merry Christmas everyone!

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I think that the update that you are referring to is from Jan 7, 2015. 

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It's actually from the beginning of July, which may explain some of the discrepancies you've noticed.

Re-reading the Acceptable Use Policy, I did find that blurb stating that the service is not " for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item" but as it says certain items and eBay permits pre-orders/sales if they meet certain conditions, I don't think there's a blanket prohibition on its use in these circumstances.

What may also affect PayPal's handling of a pre-order sale gone south is whether or not the buyer funded the payment with a credit card.  We still don't know if the OP used a credit card to pay for this purchase.  Let's hope that they did.

[pjcdn2005]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I think that the update that you are referring to is from Jan 7, 2015. 

---

It's actually from the beginning of July, which may explain some of the discrepancies you've noticed.

Re-reading the Acceptable Use Policy, I did find that blurb stating that the service is not " for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item" but as it says certain items and eBay permits pre-orders/sales if they meet certain conditions, I don't think there's a blanket prohibition on its use in these circumstances.

What may also affect PayPal's handling of a pre-order sale gone south is whether or not the buyer funded the payment with a credit card.  We still don't know if the OP used a credit card to pay for this purchase.  Let's hope that they did.

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No. MJ isn't referring to the most recent policy update. She is referring to the update when Paypal changed to their 180 day claim policy which is in the January update. There was no change to the Buyer Protection area (section 13.3) in the July update but there is mention of it in the January update. 

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/archive-policies-full

I agree though that it doesn't seem to be a blanket policy of all pre sale items and I would be surprised if it affected the OP unless the  payment information stated that it was ineligible for Paypal Buyer Protection. But then I don't know if the OP is even following this thread now or if they have filed with Paypal.

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

No. MJ isn't referring to the most recent policy update. She is referring to the update when Paypal changed to their 180 day claim policy which is in the January update. There was no change to the Buyer Protection area (section 13.3) in the July update but there is mention of it in the January update. 

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My bad.  As your post immediately followed mine, I thought it was in response to what I had posted.  I didn't even think to look at the tag about the post to which yours was in response.

[pjcdn2005]

My bad too. I didn't notice that the reply in post 11 was to you though I meant to reply to mj.