Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

If somebody could clarify for me how I lost this case....?

 

it was a few months back but it still baffles me. Ordered $100 worth of clothes from a popular and long-standing US seller. When I received them, four of the items were significantly different from the listing (one necklace was broken, and the others were not the size/measurements stated). So I opened a request to return them with the seller through eBay, and they were cooperative and agreed to refund me the return shipping costs, but adamant that I would not be refunded original shipping costs, just the costs of the items (the shipping  costs were arguably equal to the cost of the items).

I thought if items are not as described, that is no fault of mine as a buyer, and therefore upon returning the items I should receive a full refund including original shipping?

Anyways since the seller still insisted I would not receive a refund for original shipping, I closed the eBay case, escalated to a  Paypal claim, waited for the decision, and Paypal decided in the seller's favour, informing me to return the items for a refund. When I asked yet again if I would be refunded original shipping costs, again the answer was no.

I ended up just closing the case and counting it as a loss, but I can't help but wonder if something is not right about that?

Advice from those of you who know the ropes better than I would be appreciated, so I can avoid this mess again in the future 🙂

Message 1 of 24
latest reply
23 REPLIES 23

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

"four of the items were significantly different from the listing"

 

How many items were involved in this purchase?

 

All in one listing?  or several listings?

 

What is the value of the unsatisfactory items in relation to the total transaction?

Message 2 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

8 items total, 4 items not as described, all separate listings/auctions, unsatisfactory $55/100.

Message 3 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

Were the four unsatisfactory items purchased from a US seller through GSP (Global Shipping Program)?

 

Can you evaluate the shipping cost of four items only?

Message 4 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

Nope I avoid that GSP like the plague.
Message 5 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

Shipping cost for four items I believe was $25-30.
Message 6 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

That may be the base of the rejection for refunding the original shipping charge.

 

For example, it may have cost $25 to combine the shipping of all 8 items while combining just 4 may have cost $20 or even the same $25.

 

There is no way for eBay or PayPal to determine what actual extra shipping costs (if any) were involved in the original transactions.  It is possible these four unsatisfactory items did not cost any additional shipping amount.  As such, no refund for shipping would be available.

Message 7 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

"Shipping cost for four items I believe was $25-30"

 

Could you go back to the eight payments you made through PayPal and break down the eight shipping charges - or - was everything combined into one payment, one shipping charge?

Message 8 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

OK my bad Pierre sorry for confusing you!
They were 8 separate listings that I paid for in one single transaction.

The $25-30 estimate was for the 4 items only.

I paid full price shipping for the item with highest shipping cost at $12.99, then 50% off each additional item's shipping. The items were basically all 9.99 shipping after the inital 12.99 one so I guess it would be 13 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 = $48.
$48 shipping on $52 goods. Hope that clarifies it 😄
Message 9 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

Sorry for the late reply.  Just woke up from my morning nap!

 

So basically you paid $20 for the original shipping of those four unsatisfactory items ($5 each) and the seller should have refunded $20 shipping upon receipt of the returned items.

 

What reason(s) did the seller give for not refunding the four shipping charges?

Message 10 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

No worries, I'm an early bird!
Their explanation was that only the goods are guaranteed through buyer protection, not the shipment of them. So while I am entitled to a refund of the purchase price, I am not entitled to a refund of the shipping costs I paid.
It sounded fishy to me, so I thought that when I escalated the claim for Paypal to make a decision, they would read the back-and-forth seeing the seller refusing to refund original shipping, and demand a full refund from the seller for those items. But not so.
So I didn't bother returning them because a) who's to say the seller would for sure refund me for the return shipping, leaving me out even more money and no product?, and b) I could (and have) made more of my money back reselling the items on ebay than returning them and only getting half the refund for them.
Message 11 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

Aaaaand this is why I only buy cheap, small things from China on Ebay now, haha.
Message 12 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

"Their explanation was that only the goods are guaranteed through buyer protection, not the shipment of them.:"

 

That is not a valid reason.

 

With the eBay Money Back Guarantee, we ensure you get the item you ordered or your money back. We will cover your purchase price plus original shipping on virtually all items on ebay.com.

If you didn't receive the item you ordered (either received nothing or something that wasn't as described), you can use our eBay Money Back Guarantee process to resolve issues quickly.

Learn more about eBay Money Back Guarantee or get started by opening a request in your Purchase history page.

Message 13 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

Initially it was a request that I had opened. I believe you can only open one request per item.
Let's backtrack. How could I have done this differently. Sent the items back as instructed, waited for the partial refund less original shipping, then what? Call eBay and say the refund wasn't the correct amount?
How long is buyer protection guaranteed for, 60 days?
Message 14 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

If you check the eBay Money Back Guarantee link, eBay advises:

 

 

  • Go to My eBay

    If your item hasn’t arrived or isn’t as described, go to My eBay, find the item in your purchase history, and select return or item not received within 30 days of delivery.

 

 

  • Not resolved? Let us know.

    If your issue’s not resolved in 3 business days, contact us.

 

  • We’ll get your money back fast.

    You’ll hear from us in 48 hours.

 

 

 

Message 15 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

It may have been the '30 day' thing. If the Original Poster had to proceed with a paypal case and their Resolution Centre, they will ask you to return the items at your own cost, regardless of whether or not they were SNAD. Or, at least that is how I understand it to work. Based on what I recall from previous personal experience. 

Message 16 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

I did open the claim within 30 days.
This happened months ago as I mentioned, it's just been a lingering question in my head, thus the post. Far too late to do anything about it now, yes, but next time seller tries to not refund original shipping I know how to properly deal with the situation.
Message 17 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

I might have missed something but so far I'm confused. Your title mentions return shipping but your post keeps mentioning that the seller wouldn't pay for original shipping.

Original shipping costs refer to what you paid to get the items to you. Return shipping costs are what it would cost you to send the items back. Which one was the seller refusing to pay...original, return or both?

Message 18 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

 

Hello 'sequinsnvelvet',

<< I opened a request to return . . . through eBay, and [seller] agreed to refund me the return shipping costs, ... I would not

be refunded original shipping costs, just the costs of the items.

. . .  I closed the eBay case, escalated to a  Paypal claim, . . . Paypal decided in the seller's favour, informing me to return the

items for a refund. When I asked yet again if I would be refunded original shipping costs, again the answer was no.

I ended up just closing the case and counting it as a loss>>

 

I haven't read the emails and so cannot comment on who said what to whom, but when you open a case for return in ebay 

or paypal and are directed to return the items you will not be refunded anything until the tracking shows the seller has the 

items back.  Then, if the seller does not refund the item price + original shipping, ebay/paypal will do it for you.

 

It does not matter what a seller tells you, - a seller cannot withhold the original shipping fee.  If you open a case on ebay 

within 30 days and provide proof that the items are significantly not as described, the seller will also be required to pay 

for return shipping.  The difficulty there is how to do it internationally.

 

I don't understand why you closed the ebay case.  Presumably you thought a paypal case would offer you a better deal.

Paypal would not have decided in the seller's favour before you had returned the items.  You said pp decided first, then

instructed you to return the items.  That was not a decision in the seller's favour, it's how the system works. 

Were you hoping for a refund without actually having to return the items?

 

Moreover, you say you ended up closing the case.  If you closed the case it seems it was at that point undecided, -- or 

do you consider the requirement of returning items to be tantamount to a refusal?  At any rate, when you open a return 

case in paypal, you get the item price + original shipping fee but there is no promise made of getting return shipping.

 

 

<<I didn't bother returning them because a) who's to say the seller would for sure refund me . . . and b) I . . . made more

of my money back reselling the items on ebay than returning them and only getting half the refund for them.>>

 

Unfortunately you know how that's going to look, now, don't you.  You didn't get a refund, kept the items, and if the seller 

sees you resold them (obviously they were good enough to resell) she will think you are just another bad buyer looking 

for a discount or a freebie.  Ick.  So don't let this happen to you again.

 

You may already have seen these policy links, but even so a little refresher never hurts.  

The ebay Help page explains about having 30 days to open a case on ebay, and clearly states that "a full refund is one

that covers the cost of the item and original shipping," adding that  "if you've received an item and want a full refund,

you usually need to send the item back to the seller."

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/item-not-received.html#more

 

Ebay's Money Back Guarantee page bolsters this view with the statement that, "When an item is returned to the seller, 

the cost of return shipping is the seller's responsibility", for items that are not as described.  According to this page, 

ebay will refund the return shipping via paypal.  

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html#description

 

And paypal's Buyer Protection allows 180 days (nearly 6 months) in which to start a claim.  There is no mention of 

any return shipping reimbursement so the buyer must pay that if a claim is opened through paypal.  In Section 13.4 

it says "If . . . PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item

and original shipping costs",

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#13

 

 

It's dull reading but good to know if you are willing to spend a wee bit of time going over it. Smiley Happy

 

 

 

Message 19 of 24
latest reply

Defective items, had to pay return shipping?!

"I don't understand why you closed the ebay case. "

To quote myself earlier in this post, I closed the case because there were no viable options:
"So I didn't bother returning them because a) who's to say the seller would for sure refund me for the return shipping, leaving me out even more money and no product?, and b) I could (and have) made more of my money back reselling the items on ebay than returning them and only getting half the refund for them."

------

"Unfortunately you know how that's going to look, now, don't you. You didn't get a refund, kept the items, and if the seller
sees you resold them (obviously they were good enough to resell) "

Again, I will reply with another quote I previously made in this post:
"One necklace was broken, and the others were not the size/measurements stated". Obviously I did not sell the broken necklace. The other 3, just because they did not fit me, doesn't mean they won't fit a potential buyer, no? I listed the items accurately with proper measurements and have had very happy buyers. Tell me again how that looks?

And lastly thank you for the links Pierre already posted.
Message 20 of 24
latest reply