eBay

hlmacdon · ‎01-28-2016

Unfortunately I couldn't reply in the weekly session thread as that has since been locked by Raphael.

Incorrect, it exists and is accessible from the US. If you using a listing template or some other service perhaps you are not seeing it.

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There is no Canada Post Small Packet USA Ground service. It was discontinued 2-3 years ago. That is a fact. Yet you say that a ground service is available. Then you say ground is available on eBay.com. Very confusing.

I believe you are referring to the eBay.com USA shipping options their Sell Your Item form, in particular the Economy Shipping services named USPS Retail Ground (2 to 9 business days) or USPS Parcel Select Ground (2 to 9 business days) or other carrier ground services.

This was my error, that should have read for the US rather than from the US. Apologies for the resulting confusion. The examples I provide are options available for sellers via ebay.ca. The Small Packets - International - Ground option is not a carrier specific option as you can see below.

These service are USA based and not available to most sellers located in Canada. If you are suggesting that a seller in Canada use a service on eBay.com in their listing for the shipping time estimates regardless of how the seller actually ships the item using a Canada Post option, then the seller would be misrepresenting what service they use. A seller in the USA would be surprised to get a package from Canada Post when the listing said it was using USPS Retail Ground or Parcel select.

You also seem to have advised in another topic to use Small Packet Ground International in a listing to get the delivery time estimate "Varies for an international country".

I can see where the confusion arises as it looks like you list on ebay.com. The options I listed under USA heading are the ebay.ca shipping options that are either carrier specific (I have omitted UPS) to the US or generic, non-carrier specific options, that are currently available, and could be applicable to the US (in the same way you use standard international shipping for the Canadian shipping option on your listings.

As you may be aware, the Economy Shipping from outside the US option which is available through ebay.com is not currently available on ebay.ca. That currently provides the longest ETA and would be the most applicable for countries where actual delivery times are typically longer (Australia being a great example). In the absence of that option being available on ebay.ca, Small Packet Ground International currently shows the varies for an international country outside of North America, which allows a buyer to refer to the seller's ETAs as stated in their listing description. It is not an ideal solution, and if Raphael can get the economy options that are available on ebay.com to be available on ebay.ca that should negate the need for the work around.

From what I am reading, you seem to think that a seller can use any shipping service available in a listing and that it does not matter what they actually use to ship the item. You have lumped a lot of service not available to a seller as US options.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I find your posts since you started posting recently in the Canadian forums a few days ago about shipping to be confusing and making no sense at all at times. Please explain better. Saying that there is a ground option available on eBay.com USA is technically correct but is unusable to a Canada Seller.

You currently use "standard international shipping" and "standard shipping from outside US" as non carrier specific shipping options, with the actual shipping services clearly explained in your listing. I am advocating the same for sellers who are concerned about the late shipment defect issue when using non-tracked services that do not receive an acceptance scan, or for sellers who want to better manage customer expectations with respect to delivery times. The primary difference, and cause of confusion, being using the options available via ebay.ca rather than ebay.com where you list. This is more pertinent to shipments outside of North America, where sellers are going to run into difficulties with the carrier specific ETAs not reflective of the realties of actual delivery times, especially in periods such as the run up to Christmas.

The point of listing all of the options was to show the limitations of the ETA ranges that are currently available to a Canadian seller listing on ebay.ca, and how even the carrier specific options for Canada do not accurately reflect stated Canada Post ETAs (whether too long or too short, if it isn't accurate it reflects a fundamental problem). Under the new standards, a large number of Canadian sellers will be beholden to what ebay enters as the ETA range. Users of the Canada Post small/light packet services do not receive any acceptance scans, which would allow ebay to evaluate shipment within stated handling times.

The point of the seller standards revision was to provide a metric that was neutral, "based on what you control - shipping your item on time." Due to the acceptance scan issue, sellers using light/small packet have no way to demonstrate they have shipped within their stated handling time, that can be verified by ebay in an automated fashion. As such the combination of inconsistent delivery times and ETA ranges which don't accurately reflect that leaves those sellers unfairly vulnerable to late shipment defects. With US sellers using USPS, this is not an issue, as acceptance scans are available for first class package services. This is where I feel there is a disconnect. If Raphael can mange to get the economy option(s) enabled for ebay.ca that will help, but the acceptance scan issue remains problematic. Hopefully that has better explains the issue from my perspective.

pierrelebel · ‎01-28-2016

"The Small Packets - International - Ground option is not a carrier specific option as you can see below."

If I may.

This is where you misunderstood the eBay table. It is very carrier specific: Canada Post

The problem is that there is not enough space on those two lines to incorporate "Canada Post". eBay could have added CP but did not.

If you follow the sequence of the services offered, it is very clear to all Canadian sellers that both "international small packet" air and surface are services available from Canada Post.

The sequence for USA is the same: letter-post, light packet, small packet, tracked packet, etc...

hlmacdon · ‎01-28-2016

Hi Pierre,

By non-carrier specific I mean in terms of what is visibly presented to the customer:

Hi Pierre,

pocomocomputing · ‎01-28-2016

As you explained, this confirms that you are manipulating the shipping options and the poor design of the eBay Shipping & Payments to use options not as they were designed and intended to be used. That is what I suspected. Your presentation of this was very confusing to most of us who know the Canada Post shipping options and how the ebay.ca shipping works.

I will admit I find it intriguing how you are doing this. The named Canada Post shipping options are basically meaningless to anyone outside of Canada (and even for buyers within Canada) so treating them as "generic" options is as Spock of Star Trek fame would say, "Fascinating"! I never thought outside the box (poor pun) about this manipulation.

Using Small Packet International Ground as a generic shipping option for the USA to get rid of the delivery time estimates is interesting. It does rely on the fact that the eBay.ca shipping system shows the option to USA buyers when it should not. The poor design of the eBay.ca shipping in listings allows the USA to see USA only options and International options. I believe you can only do this with Flat Rate shipping but I am not sure. I would have to test.

Personally I would not use this "trick" in a listing, mainly because the buyer may be put off by the word ground in the shipping name. I would prefer that eBay add a generic option like Economy Int'l Shipping. Economy seems more positive as in saving money for the buyer whereas using ground, it sounds so slow to a buyer.

hlmacdon · ‎01-28-2016

As you explained, this confirms that you are manipulating the shipping options and the poor design of the eBay Shipping & Payments to use options not as they were designed and intended to be used. That is what I suspected. Your presentation of this was very confusing to most of us who know the Canada Post shipping options and how the ebay.ca shipping works.

I will admit I find it intriguing how you are doing this. The named Canada Post shipping options are basically meaningless to anyone outside of Canada (and even for buyers within Canada) so treating them as "generic" options is as Spock of Star Trek fame would say, "Fascinating"! I never thought outside the box (poor pun) about this manipulation.

That is a fair point and something I should have explained better. It is not ideal, but given you mention that the naming is not recognized and meaningless to the vast majority and the benefit of the longer etas, it was the best available work around at the time while presenting the the most accurate shipping information and etas in the actual listing description. In my experience international buyers fall into two broad classes, those very experienced with international ordering and patient, and those who take ETAs presented as verbatim and get very upset when they are not accurate. It is now both highly visible and a metric buyers are prompted to measure, so this increases the level of sensitivity on the part of the buyer.

Using Small Packet International Ground as a generic shipping option for the USA to get rid of the delivery time estimates is interesting. It does rely on the fact that the eBay.ca shipping system shows the option to USA buyers when it should not. The poor design of the eBay.ca shipping in listings allows the USA to see USA only options and International options. I believe you can only do this with Flat Rate shipping but I am not sure. I would have to test.

For the US it will list a delivery ETA (Currently 5-13 Business Days). The extra few days came in handy during the holiday period, as domestic USPS was incredibly slow (multiple instances of packages taking a week to even move 1-2 states) and Canada Post had their issues as well. You are correct in this is currently set with a flat rate option. I have not tested with a calculated option as using flat rate shipping rules has been an easier way to manage things due to the nature of items being sold.

Personally I would not use this "trick" in a listing, mainly because the buyer may be put off by the word ground in the shipping name. I would prefer that eBay add a generic option like Economy Int'l Shipping. Economy seems more positive as in saving money for the buyer whereas using ground, it sounds so slow to a buyer.

I would agree with you in this aspect, it is currently a least of bad options work around, depending on the particular needs and concerns of a seller. A high percentage of items I sell are to international locations where a good percentage of deliveries take longer than currently presented ETAs, whether via Canada Post or USPS (we use both). In current practice the work around has not effected rate of sell through or prompted questions from buyers over a trial of a few months, although I very much agree it isn't ideal for the reason you mention and their are potential lost sales that can't be measured. Unfortunately it is one of those things where you have to balance upset customers and seller defects against this. If Raphael can manage to get the economy options added to .ca it would be a welcome addition for the reasons you mention.

pjcdn2005 · ‎01-28-2016

I have not tested with a calculated option as using flat rate shipping rules has been an easier way to manage things due to the nature of items being sold.

It wouldn't be a good idea to use it with calculated shipping. The calculator would be unable to give the buyer a shipping cost since there is no CP service to the U.S. with that name.

hlmacdon · ‎01-28-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
I have not tested with a calculated option as using flat rate shipping rules has been an easier way to manage things due to the nature of items being sold.

It wouldn't be a good idea to use it with calculated shipping. The calculator would be unable to give the buyer a shipping cost since there is no CP service to the U.S. with that name.

Correct. From a quick test it doesn't match up to anything in the Canada Post API and returns an error as expected. For international (outside of NA) it matches up with the small packet international surface rates from an eyeballing of the returned prices. Flat would be the only practical usage due to the difference in air vs surface rates. Calculated would be of limited use in this scenario at any rate, unless you had the ability to specify which API (ie Canada Post, UPS, USPS, etc) to pull rates from and could customize the eta.

momcqueen · ‎01-28-2016

Very interesting. Thank you for the elaboration.

zee-chan · ‎01-29-2016

I debated changing my shipping service to surface for a couple months and see if there is major decline to sales, but figured since I'm so close to losing my TRS anyway it's probably not worth my effort to adjust all those listings. There are still 13 buyers who bought from me during late-December who still didn't leave feedback so... thing are looking grim.

What I'm gonna try is, in my "your item is shipped!" message that I send to all buyers, I'm gonna add "Please disregard the delivery estimate given by eBay. Your items will take about 2-4 weeks to deliver but may experience delays due to XXX"......

dutchman48 · ‎01-29-2016

Buyers leaving feedback has dropped drastically in the last month or two. It is probably around 30% or less right now and I don't know why either. I have had none in over a week now.

Ebay knows and that is why they put absurd policies in place. They said all would be to the benefit of sellers, which is an outright lie and I am sure they know it and could care less.

Any time a Ebay issue or bug shows up to hurt sellers, they conveniently can't duplicate it or let it slide by saying it is too old, we can't do anything or what ever it takes to get you gone.

I have multiple cases open with Ebay and have case numbers. Guess what, you never hear back from any one.

I, as many others, am getting very jaded with Ebay and will be doing other things soon to get away from here to a large extent. The headaches and double talk from the chats and Ebay are a joke.

I do wish you good luck trying to get these issues resolved.

momcqueen · ‎01-29-2016

I hit that point in late fall after getting slapped in the face by the Feedback Specialists when I went to them for help about that negative feedback blot left me for a product review about which details were stated in the listing. By a new buyer who left nonsense feedback

(random mashing of the keyboard character) for most of his/her sellers.

After the debacle with Product Identifiers being mishandled in my category in the spring, and then the announced new seller 'standards' which are anything but standards, the thing that happened with the way that feedback was handled by those people was my final straw.

I have dozens of new items ready to go, ones that will be good sellers for me, but I just cannot bring myself to list them here. I'm waiting and I don't even know what I'm waiting for. Some kind of sign? Flowers and chocolates?

Everything I sell that used to ship via Small Packets Airmail has now been switched to Tracked Packet. Only about a third of my offerings remain available as untracked domestic or Light Packet Airmail. If it fits in an envelope, fine, I'll leave that untraced. Otherwise, I'm mitigating the damage. I don't need this kind of grief.

Like I've been bellyaching from the moment the Fall 2015 Seller Standards announcement was made, it's been bad enough that Canadians are trying to play ball against Americans without affordable tracked services but the ridiculous manner in which the buyers are given incorrect estimates on when their items are due is too much to bear. What buyer even REMEMBERS when they received an untraced order? Ebay occupies my whole life and even I don't give enough of a rat's behind to make notes of when something via lettermail hits my mailbox.

In six to nine months, when ebay makes a big aboutface on this defect system, all of our aggravation will have been wasted time and effort.

vintagenorth · ‎01-29-2016

I show little or no feedback received since before Christmas on both of my selling IDs. This is quite unusual as I sell in a category where feedback is usually 50 to 60 percent. I give FB when an item is put in the mail. I'm starting to wonder if the lack of FB is because it isn't being posted to me by eBay. I know it seems to come in in bunches, usually a couple of times a month. I wonder if their is a glitch in their system due to all the changes.

momcqueen · ‎01-29-2016

I've noticed in past years that my Christmastime buyers are not feedback-leavers. They often don't even have accounts, and have only come to ebay to find something specific and in a last-minute hurry. If my normal rate of feedback is somewhere between 30 and 40 per cent, at this time of year, it dips to 20 per cent of buyers or less.

What you are seeing now, for me at least, is normal.

dutchman48 · ‎01-29-2016

It is worse than I thought. I looked at my dashboard and I have 1051 transactions with only 174 counting towards my late delivery %.

That is a whopping 16.5% of sales to work with. Feedback by buyers is becoming less and less every year.

momcqueen · ‎01-29-2016

Good gravy, that really does not bode well for you. What percentage of your orders are sent with tracking? Can you pad it with tracked items, or not really? I'm counting on my acceptance scans to counterbalance the incorrect calculation of delivery dates by untraced postal service.

pjcdn2005 · ‎01-29-2016

Working with 15.76% of sales here. That should go up a little bit every month because the total sale number is from the last 12 months and the late shipment rate is being counted from Sept. to now.

I do agree that not counting every sale really does skew the numbers. I can understand why ebay based the system on tracking but I think that they should count all of our transactions.

hlmacdon · ‎01-29-2016

@dutchman48 wrote:
It is worse than I thought. I looked at my dashboard and I have 1051 transactions with only 174 counting towards my late delivery %.

That is a whopping 16.5% of sales to work with. Feedback by buyers is becoming less and less every year.

Out of curiosity do you know why only a percentage of your total transactions contribute to the late delivery% rating? Having a look at my dashboard on my one business account, roughly 40% of transactions count towards that rating, with all transactions shipped with tracking. Is it solely tied to transactions where feedback was left? That might explain it as you mention it is difficult to receive feedback for all transactions. If they are ignoring transactions that had an acceptance scan showing they were shipped in stated handling times but received no feedback that would be troubling.

The one way I've been able to increase feedback rate is sending buyers a message upon ship out, thanking them for their order and setting a clear delivery expectation and reassurance if any issues crop up. Along with leaving immediate feedback for the buyer this increased feedback a fair bit.

dutchman48 · ‎01-29-2016

Ebay never does an about face, they just introduce new which is usually worse than before.

Plus the fact they refuse to fix or even acknowledge there are internal problems, it is going to be a trying year.

dutchman48 · ‎01-29-2016

If you use tracking, and follow the guidelines, all your transactions should count. It is the sellers using letter mail, light or small packet for a large percentage of their shipments that the only sales that count are if the buyer answers the question yes or no. No feedback does not count at all in those cases

momcqueen · ‎01-29-2016

As we were led to understand, that count is only those where feedback is left. If you get an acceptance scan on an item within your stated handling time or not, it is irrelevant until feedback is left. That is, in most of our opinions, a huge problem. You cannot force a buyer to leave feedback, not should your ability to conduct business be based on a metric which is out of your control in virtually every manner. Someone will correct me here if I have misunderstood it.