eBay

westernstargifts · ‎12-29-2016

A buyer purchased an item late Friday evening on Dec. 16. I shipped it the next day to another location within Ontario. I have 2 day handling time on my listings. Monday would not be considered the first business day as that is the day CP usually picks it up, although they have been picking up mail on weekends. With the 2 day handling time the buyer was able to open an INR in 2 business days.

No estimated delivery time was displayed by eBay, likely because it was listed on .com with Standard Int. shipping. I marked it as 'shipped' on Dec. 19 although it was actually Dec. 17. I wanted the buyer to know it was on its way or I would have waited the 2 days so eBay would add the 2 day handling time to the estimated delivery time, although I don' think it would have made a difference because they didn't have an estimate in the first place. I guess that results in open season on sellers if they don't receive it immediately. Even if I had waited the 2 days it would have only 4 business days to get there, right before Christmas.

westernstargifts · ‎12-29-2016

I should have mentioned it was Lettermail with no tracking.

rose-dee · ‎12-29-2016

@westernstargifts wrote:

No estimated delivery time was displayed by eBay, likely because it was listed on .com with Standard Int. shipping. I marked it as 'shipped' on Dec. 19 although it was actually Dec. 17. I wanted the buyer to know it was on its way or I would have waited the 2 days so eBay would add the 2 day handling time to the estimated delivery time, although I don' think it would have made a difference because they didn't have an estimate in the first place. I guess that results in open season on sellers if they don't receive it immediately. Even if I had waited the 2 days it would have only 4 business days to get there, right before Christmas.

I don't understand. This isn't right. There should be an estimated delivery time displayed by eBay, regardless. A buyer should not be able to open an INR within 2 days, although I recall seeing something like this reported elsewhere on the boards (can't recall exactly where at the moment).

I think if I were the victim of this, I'd definitely be on the phone to eBay, and would persist until I got somebody who both spoke English and actually understood the problem.

i.am.vivian · ‎12-29-2016

@westernstargifts wrote:
A buyer purchased an item late Friday evening on Dec. 16. I shipped it the next day to another location within Ontario. I have 2 day handling time on my listings. Monday would not be considered the first business day as that is the day CP usually picks it up, although they have been picking up mail on weekends. With the 2 day handling time the buyer was able to open an INR in 2 business days.

No estimated delivery time was displayed by eBay, likely because it was listed on .com with Standard Int. shipping.

There should have been a delivery timeframe anyway. There really was none? Even cheap items from China all come with ETAs.

Did the buyer open an eBay claim or a PayPal claim? On PP they can do it after 48 hours I think. EBay makes them wait till the last del. date has passed.

You should maybe call eBay about this. I don't see how it could hurt because without tracking the bots will automatically refund. You will probably lose anyway, but the call is free at least. Maybe the buyer has a history of filing claims after only 2 days and that definitely should not be allowed to continue.

pjcdn2005 · ‎12-30-2016

When we list on .com and use standard or economy shipping from outside the US there has never been an estimated arrival date for Canadian buyers on the listing or on the order details.

gifts_of_elegance · ‎12-30-2016

It was me that complained. Purchased on Saturday afternoon, INR was filed on Monday at 7 AM. eBay did not care and PayPal felt it was the purchaser's right to be disappointed. Actually, purchaser was aware that there was no tracking and obviously felt I would loose (she kept saying that the money would sit there until time ran out and she would get the money.) It did not happen that way because I mailed it WITH TRACKING after she filed claim. Actually it was a perfect attempt at scam, except she filed for INR before it was possible for me to mail and I made sure to send it with tracking.

westernstargifts · ‎12-30-2016

Then that explains why the buyer was able to open the claim. How can eBay hold us to standards that they cannot even measure? I have rarely listed on .com until now and had never experienced any problems on the rare occasions that I did.

The claim was opened through the Resolution Centre. I will refund with a note requesting repayment or Return to Sender when it arrives, as I am sure it will. The buyer was quite rude, though, so I will not be holding my breath. He is a newbie and I think he just expected that it would arrive by Christmas and was angry when it did not. I send mail within my city that does not arrive that quickly because it goes out of town to be sorted first.

Oh, and he also mentioned that there was no tracking number uploaded (for 1.80). He either knows the system or actually has no idea of the cost of mailing packages with tracking within Canada, which most people do not. Buyer expectations these days seem to be more and more unrealistic. This is most likely the result of the push for fast and free shipping on every site these days.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

westernstargifts · ‎12-30-2016

So, if eBay cannot provide an 'estimated delivery time' do they still ask the buyer the question "Did your purchase arrive on time?". They should not be able to as they have no time frame to judge what "on time" would be. If they do ask the question then all buyers could potentially answer no and give us a defect.

rose-dee · ‎12-30-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
When we list on .com and use standard or economy shipping from outside the US there has never been an estimated arrival date for Canadian buyers on the listing or on the order details.

Since I rarely sell to Canadians, I frankly wasn't aware of the lack of estimated arrival date in these circumstances. Do you know whether this also applies for international buyers (i.e. non-Canadian, non-U.S.)?

Or are you referring to the "Delivery time varies for an international destination" sort of notification that I see on some listings as being a lack of ETA? Not that "varies" helps at all, either for the buyer or the seller.

If eBay can't show a particular delivery ETA, why should they be able to issue defects for late delivery? Or do they show an arbitrary delivery time for the on-time question to the buyer? I've never actually considered this issue. If it is so, those of us who list on .com are all in potential trouble every time we sell to a Canadian. Could it get any more ridiculous?

Questions, questions, always questions with eBay. Nothing is ever simple and clear with eBay. The concept of "KISS" seems to elude them.

I realize this has nothing specifically to do with the INR the OP described, but even so it would mean there are two potential pitfalls with every such sale.

rose-dee · ‎12-30-2016

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
It was me that complained. Purchased on Saturday afternoon, INR was filed on Monday at 7 AM. eBay did not care and PayPal felt it was the purchaser's right to be disappointed. Actually, purchaser was aware that there was no tracking and obviously felt I would loose (she kept saying that the money would sit there until time ran out and she would get the money.) It did not happen that way because I mailed it WITH TRACKING after she filed claim. Actually it was a perfect attempt at scam, except she filed for INR before it was possible for me to mail and I made sure to send it with tracking.

Good for you for maneuvering around this landmine and protecting yourself. But how unfortunate that we sellers have to concoct ways to protect ourselves from eBay itself.

Although the lack of ETAs on items purchased by Canadian buyers from sellers listing on .com using standard/economy shipping "outside the U.S." (as 'pj' says) may be the explanation, it is not a justification. There's a big difference!

pjcdn2005 · ‎12-30-2016

When we actually got defects for an inr we were told that if there was no eta given Florida an international sale the buyer had to wait 30 days until after the shipment before they could open an inr on eBay. I've always thought that was still the case but either it has changed or else it was different in this case because you were both Canadian.

When the system changed to defects being given for late shipments, Raphael was asked what would happen if there was no specific delivery estimate given. From what I remember he said that he would have to look into it but I don't recall that question ever being answered. I can't imagine how they would ask the question if there was no date given but I don't know for sure.

What date wa the inr opened? I thought you said 2 days after the purchase on the 18th but then you said something about after Christmas...

pjcdn2005 · ‎12-30-2016

Yes, I am referring delivery varies.......
If it says that on the listing, it will also say that in order details.

zee-chan · ‎12-30-2016

I don't think so about the 30 days no INR. The Germany buyer I ranted about who opened INR on it did it on 9 business days. Delivery estimate on order details was "no estimate avaliable".

rose-dee · ‎12-30-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Yes, I am referring delivery varies.......
If it says that on the listing, it will also say that in order details.

Thanks, that's what I thought was the case.

On a related matter, it does seem strange that a Chinese seller, listing on .com, showing "economy" shipping, from whom I purchased an item on Dec. 11th, was given the following delivery time by eBay: "Estimated delivery between Dec. 23rd and Feb. 6th". That's a 45-day window. On the FB page, I was asked if the item was delivered by February 6th. It was delivered today, so this seller still had a 27-day delivery cushion. And this is not the only Chinese seller I've dealt with to have the benefit of such a long time allowance listing on .com.

This seems exceedingly generous, enough to ensure any seller shipping internationally by air would be unlikely to get a late delivery defect. Why can't eBay allow this long ETA elsewhere where they aren't able to specify the exact delivery estimate? In my case, currently listing on .com I'm expected to deliver to Australia by "economy" within 8-16 business days. Yet my Chinese seller gets 45 days to deliver to Canada. In my experience, China Post deliveries almost always take about half that time or less.

This makes no sense to me unless eBay is deliberately providing an advantage to Chinese sellers (not an unthinkable prospect). Or perhaps they're simply hoping more TRS sellers will drop off their roster.

In my opinion, the whole area of eBay's delivery estimates is a mess. They created a bit of a monster with the on-time delivery policy, and I really don't know how they can possibly keep up with providing reasonably fair and accurate international delivery times when things are constantly changing in postal services around the world. I think eBay was so focused on a seller punishment system specifically for U.S. sellers that they ignored a lot of the realities of their international marketplace.

tobyshitzu · ‎12-30-2016

"
This makes no sense to me unless eBay is deliberately providing an advantage to Chinese sellers"

Ive never seen a chinese seller with TRS, there is no chance they could qualify regardless of the time displayed

rose-dee · ‎12-30-2016

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
"This makes no sense to me unless eBay is deliberately providing an advantage to Chinese sellers"

Ive never seen a chinese seller with TRS, there is no chance they could qualify regardless of the time displayed

I wasn't referring to TRS for Chinese sellers, but for us Canadian sellers. I was pointing out that Chinese sellers can escape most late delivery defects with a 45-day window, and thus have an advantage over the rest of us (whether TRS or not). In other words, they can use ordinary, non-tracked airmail without worry.

rose-dee · ‎12-30-2016

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

Ive never seen a chinese seller with TRS, there is no chance they could qualify regardless of the time displayed

Further to my post above, there must be at least some Chinese sellers with TRS -- the one I purchased from had the TRS badge displayed on his listings. See item # 390868570902.

Why would you think there is no chance they could ever qualify?

westernstargifts · ‎12-30-2016

@zee-chan wrote:
I don't think so about the 30 days no INR. The Germany buyer I ranted about who opened INR on it did it on 9 business days. Delivery estimate on order details was "no estimate avaliable".

That is exactly what it shows on the order details page.

i.am.vivian · ‎12-30-2016

@rose-dee wrote:
there must be at least some Chinese sellers with TRS -- the one I purchased from had the TRS badge displayed on his listings.

There are lots. I just did a quick search for "buttons", not setting any search preferences (meaning all eBay's defaults including Best Match). Lots of TSR Chinese sellers. I guess if they sell enough volume and all goes well it works to offset any "no" responses since that is about all that matters these days. I admit I don't buy from there but maybe the way to get the TSR is as you have just explained, list with a really REALLY long delivery time. Then everyone marks "yes".

i.am.vivian · ‎12-31-2016

@westernstargifts wrote:
A buyer purchased an item late Friday evening on Dec. 16. I shipped it the next day to another location within Ontario. I have 2 day handling time on my listings. Monday would not be considered the first business day as that is the day CP usually picks it up, although they have been picking up mail on weekends. With the 2 day handling time the buyer was able to open an INR in 2 business days.

No estimated delivery time was displayed by eBay, likely because it was listed on .com with Standard Int. shipping. I marked it as 'shipped' on Dec. 19 although it was actually Dec. 17. I wanted the buyer to know it was on its way or I would have waited the 2 days so eBay would add the 2 day handling time to the estimated delivery time, although I don' think it would have made a difference because they didn't have an estimate in the first place. I guess that results in open season on sellers if they don't receive it immediately. Even if I had waited the 2 days it would have only 4 business days to get there, right before Christmas.

I hate to be flogging a dead horse here, but exactly what DAY did the buyer open the claim? The 21st? It doesn't make a difference here, its more of a future reference thing.

The delivery difference seems to be whether you use Standard Shipping or Standard INTERNATIONAL shipping: