eBay

steveyboy1969 · ‎05-28-2014

I made a sale early in the month and just noticed a paypal claim opened today for item not as described. The buyer went from zero to sixty in her message, saying I sold her something broken and repaired and called me a shady seller. She demands a full refund and does not want to pay for return shipping. No communication, just went for the throat. Oh yeah, she just joined the same day she bought my item and has a 4 star rating to date.

I have always dreaded this situation, I just know a negative feedback is going to come from this, but will bend over backwards to prevent it. I offered her a full refund and said she could keep the item and skip the return process. I asked her to consider not leaving feedback. Was that prudent? I am worried that I will do all that for her and she will go ahead anyways, as she does sound a little vindictive and immature. What is my best recourse? Can she ask not to have to pay for return shipping in her paypal claim?

cumos55 · ‎05-28-2014

Once a Not as Described case has been opened....that transaction becomes a defect on your record...

Now you have to be concerned over having that as an unresolved by the seller case....

The best you can say is return for refund... a let the buyer sort it out.

Saying anything other than return for refund will give you a case unresolved by the seller and the limit here is 0.3 %

This transaction is already a defect... negative feedback, and low ratings included... but adding nothing extra to the count of defects.

Make it a seller resolved case and you will do very well.... That 0.3 % can hurt...

cumos55 · ‎05-28-2014

From the Spring seller update...

If I choose not to issue a return and the buyer escalates to eBay, will that count toward my 0.3% maximum cases closed without my resolving them?

If you refuse a return and the buyer opens an eBay Money Back Guarantee case, it will be handled like any other case. If you are not able to resolve it within 3 business days it’s escalated to eBay and it will count as an unresolved case if eBay finds it's your responsibility.

There has to be a minimum count as well as the percentage....mainly because of your low sales count.

Cannot find that count....

Also

Cases found in your favour don't count. Any case that escalates to eBay or PayPal for review and is found in your favour, or found to be no fault of the buyer or seller, won't count against your performance rating. It won't be counted as a defect and it won't count toward your percentage of cases closed without seller resolution.

Should you refund without question... you have resolved the case..... and it should not count against you... as an unresolved case...

If that is what you want to do ... Do it quickly without question... A refund would close the case in your favour....

but it will/might still be counted as a defect... not too sure about this..

We are all still learning about what should be done....

cumos55 · ‎05-28-2014

Still learning the subtleties of this situation...

But a quick refund should close the case in your favour.....

Haggling for no feedback may not work...

Negative feedback ... should that be what you get...is not as bad as an unresolved case....

mr.elmwood · ‎05-28-2014

As much as it stings to just refund, that is the best course of action. once done, the whole situation is more rapidly forgotten.

Those sort of people go about the day spreading their joy and then they complain as to how the whole world hates them.

Do not waste your time fighting with them. They will drag you down to their level of jerk and beat you with experience.

Do not get in an email conversation with them.

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steveyboy1969 · ‎05-28-2014

I am confused. I thought I was to issue a refund ONLY when the item was returned to me? I gave the buyer an ideal option - keep the item and get the money back. She hasn't replied yet. Should I wait for her answer before giving her the money back? Obviously I don't want this malcontent to keep the item if she will just turn around and give me neg feedback. I don't know about the other ramifications concerning cases and this .3% business, but one neg feedback will hurt me deeply. That is what I am concerned with the most.

steveyboy1969 · ‎05-28-2014

Good advice. Yeah, refund issued.

cumos55 · ‎05-28-2014

Do not forget to block this buyer.

steveyboy1969 · ‎05-28-2014

Good idea! Consider that done.

mr.elmwood · ‎05-28-2014

Now that you have closed this episode, you can move on.

We used to call it "You don't want Fred phoning". Customer would come in, completely unreasonable and irrational. We would say "No" as what they wanted was not permitted.

Customer would go home, phone head office, get put through to Fred. Fred would then phone the store and say "Give them what they want".

In the grand scheme of things, the fight is just not worth it. Yer not going to win and someone else is going to get involved.

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rose-dee · ‎05-28-2014

As 'cumos' mentioned above, once an INAD case is opened, you've already got a defect on this transaction, so I wouldn't worry about feedback in terms of defects -- you will only get "charged" once per transaction. Even if you get a defect for the refund itself, it won't matter at all at this point. The transaction is already tainted, so another defect or more on this transaction is irrelevant.

I do understand that with a low sales volume every FB comment is important, but don't forget that if this buyer does leave neg FB, you can also leave a response to that FB. Just remember that everybody, including your potential customers, will be able to see the response, so keep it calm, factual, professional, and above all, make it obvious to anyone who reads it that you are the better person.

There are two different theories on FB responses -- some feel they are necessary and useful, others believe they only serve to highlight a problem and reflect poorly on sellers. That's a dilemma you'll need to decide for yourself if and when the time comes.

Now that you've refunded this nasty customer, you should block her. This will prevent any further direct contact on her part. Also, don't forget that this buyer will have your name and personal email address from the Paypal transaction (as you will have hers), so you may want to watch for any retaliatory emails in your personal inbox and immediately dispose of them or block/reroute them to the trash if you have that feature available.

Normally, under the new rules, eBay recommends cancelling a refunded transaction, but I would definitely not try it in this instance. It will just open a new line of communication that will gain you nothing but more problems with this person. As I noted above, this transaction already has a defect on it for an opened case, so there really is no point trying to prevent further defects.

Your best hope is that this buyer will just go on to the next victim and forget about leaving FB for you altogether, which is what such people tend to do if not provoked (i.e. if there's no more sport for them in engaging you). Hopefully this will be the outcome for you.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-28-2014

A few points that may differ from others opinions....

I always assume that a buyer is telling the truth about a problem but I would still need more information from the buyer before making a decision on how to handle the problem.

I would have asked for a picture of the 'repaired damage' before making any offers to the buyer.

If the claim was legitimate but it was possible to resell the item, I would ask the buyer to return for refund and I would pay for return shipping.

If the claim was legitimate but the item could not be resold, I would refund without return

If the claim did not seem to be legitimate, I would ask the buyer to return for refund. I would not pay return shipping. You aren't obligated to do that as you don't accept returns however if you don't take the return, that's when the case could be escalated and you could receive an unresolved case mark against you if you lost the case.

Although I do want to make a customer happy and deal with the problem quickly, I don't think that it is reasonable to be expected to 'give in' the minute the buyer complains. If I was returning an item to a brick and mortar store I couldn't just email them and tell them to send me a refund, I would have to bring the item in. Also, there is the possibility that the buyer isn't being honest in which case giving in right away just encourages them to do the same thing the next time they buy the item. Imo there is nothing wrong with asking questions and handling the problem professionally before making any decision.

As far as requesting a cancellation to get my fees back when I refund, that would depend on how the whole situation worked out. It might be possible to phone customer service and request that they do the cancellation themselves and/or give a credit for fvf.

pierrelebel · ‎05-28-2014

"Although I do want to make a customer happy and deal with the problem quickly, I don't think that it is reasonable to be expected to 'give in' the minute the buyer complains."

I totally agree.

reallynicestamps · ‎05-29-2014

I offered her a full refund and said she could keep the item and skip the return process. I asked her to consider not leaving feedback. Was that prudent?

No.

If you told her to return the item for a full refund, she would have to pay for the return.

If she won't return it (some sellers allow a photograph of the damage instead) then I would assume that there is no damage.

If she does return and the damage is something YOU missed, your refund should include her return postage.

If she demands a refund without return, and you say only on return, her next step is a Paypal dispute.

And PP tells her to return for refund.

If she doesn't return, no refund.

You can ask eBay to remove the feedback on the basis that the buyer is not acting in good faith, by refusing to return for the refund.

All of which ignores the new Defect policy, which I frankly do not understand at all.

But what you did was allow her to profit from acting in bad faith, give yourself no way to remove the feedback, and apparently but yourself further in harm's way by leaving yourself open to a Defect, which hurts new or occasional sellers worse than us oldtimers.

Phone eBay Customer Service and talk to a supervisor about having the feedback removed for bad faith.

And Block her. Obviously.

dipmicro · ‎05-29-2014

@mr.elmwood wrote:
Now that you have closed this episode, you can move on.

We used to call it "You don't want Fred phoning". Customer would come in, completely unreasonable and irrational. We would say "No" as what they wanted was not permitted.

Customer would go home, phone head office, get put through to Fred. Fred would then phone the store and say "Give them what they want".

In the grand scheme of things, the fight is just not worth it. Yer not going to win and someone else is going to get involved.

That may have worked in 80s, nowadays customer can hardly reach first level of customer support who barely speak the language and have no clue about anything, getting to second level is so rare people start brag-blogs when they get through to level 2. Nobody gets through to Fred. Fred's on vacation spending the big fat bonus he got for savings from downsizing and outsourcing customer support.

atxpoint1 · ‎05-30-2014

I really have to agree with pj and stamps' posts above.

Giving a full refund without a return or any kind of verification is just too open to abuse. It might get you put on a list of "sucker sellers" on a scammer community somewhere.

Remember that buyers have nothing to lose by trying to get things for free - especially if, as in this case, they get to keep the item without being reported to ebay. I reported a buyer who I felt was trying to extort a free item from me, and I hope other sellers would do the same. Let's keep this site as safe as possible!

steveyboy1969 · ‎05-31-2014

Thanks for all the feedback,

I realise that I shouldn't have given the refund without a return first, but I felt like either I did that and the buyer would give me the negative feedback she promised or I could just let her keep the item and the refund and she would go away. She did. I am well aware of how Ebay treats buyers in comparison to their treatment of sellers, so I was confident that they would never go to bat for me.

Also, this jerk had my phone number from the Paypal transaction and used it to voice her threats. How could I prove anything if Ebay did actually want to do something? For a month old buyer, she sure seemed like someone who has been around the block.
In the end, I did report her for what that is worth.

femmefan1946 · ‎05-31-2014

Glad you Reported her. EBay is cagey about such reports, but since these occurences cost them money in the long run, they do keep score.

either I did that and the buyer would give me the negative feedback she promised or I could just let her keep the item and the refund and she would go away.

My opinion, and I am a nasty cynical old woman, is that a bully is just as likely to take the refund and leave the negative as well. Because, bully.

When she got your phone number, you were supposed to get hers too. Did that happen?

rose-dee · ‎05-31-2014

@steveyboy1969 wrote:

Also, this jerk had my phone number from the Paypal transaction and used it to voice her threats.

I was afraid that might happen. Some people's children...

It's a good thing you reported her. Hopefully you also indicated to eBay that she used your personal phone number to lodge inappropriate comments/threats. That is totally unacceptable.