Need Advice, illegal items being sold on Ebay...

[canadabeltbuckles]

I know for a fact, that an individual is selling 'bootlegged' copies of Software on Ebay.

His listings were removed in early December of 2007, but now he has come back under a new username and is selling the same items with the same pictures, layouts, and descriptions.

What is the best route here? Should I report his items to Ebay?

How can someone get their listings pulled one month, and then the next month, be allowed to advertise the same illegal stuff under a new username?

I know it is the same person because they have the same location as the previous seller, and they left their 'watermark' info on the pictures within the listing.

Yes, this could be someone else using 'stolen' pictures from a previous seller, but to be sure, I contacted the new seller and the response email came from the same source as the seller who had their listings removed in December because of copyright infringement...

Ok, so what is the best thing to do here?

[futuretech_liquidations]

Yes report them to eBaY trust and safety and they should take care of it since they do not want the RIAA after them.

[comics-rock]

...or adversly report them straight to the fbi....there law enforcement......not ebay trust

[gamers_place]

Greetings!

First of all, I sell software also. Secondly, some unscrupulous eBayer reported me for selling 'Bootlegged' items on eBay a year or so ago.

eBay removed all of my listings, contacted all of my bidders/clients etc. informing them of this, and subsequently Suspended me for 7 days until I could, AND DID, provide absolute proof that, in fact, my items (all) were valid. This entailed me having to provide all of my Contacts, Suppliers etc. etc. as well as a letter from the manufacturers on-staff attourney contacting them to verify my distributorship status, As Well as private counsel and their fee's, As Well as larger manufacter(s) require a substantial fee up front as you probably already know, and having to maintain an annual quota on top of that to keep this complete distributer/ wholesale status.

After all wholesalers, distribtors, manufacturers were contacted and All receipts provided, my 7 day suspension that last several months of legal crap cost me several thousands of dollars, reputation, integrity etc. etc. etc. eBay was finally satisfied and re-instated all privilages in full, and I am also now selling the same software, or at least, similar.

Why did eBay take this action? Simple, just because someone, more than likely another seller in competition, reported, unfoundedly, that I was selling 'bootlegged, copy-rited software'.

I'm telling you this because you say "I know for a fact" yet you don't say why, or even how you know or came to this conclusion.

We all certainly understand why you don't divulge the identity of this seller, it would cause a defamation and other suits as well as legal and actions taken by eBay.
You might well have a very valid source of Proof, but again, all I know is like the eBayer that put me through all of this only provided the same comment(s) to eBay, "I know for a fact"...nothing else!

This is in no way meant to be an attack on you in any way and please don't presume it that way. I just want you to understand the consequences that people can have, and do/did before you act.

Reporting is very good advice, though before reporting to Trust & Safety or Legal Authorities, I would certainly contact the manufacturer(s) etc. first confirming that, in fact, this individual doesn't have the reseller rites to sell/auction these items.

There's currently 50 million+ sellers selling software on eBay alone! Certainly, out of that there is obviously a few that are indulging in 'illegal' activities, but I would Never report Anyone of them based just on assumption!

Also, you do seem very concerned about this issue. I'm very concerned about your motive. e.g. I've had other complaints from eBay in the past where I was offering a Free DVD Movie with a software purchase because another seller(s) felt that I was 'creating an unfair selling field' etc. etc.

I'm too busy with my own store to investigate every other sellers legitemacy, but then you don't need to prove that do you, only to make that drastic accusation(s).

Please understand that I would be the 1rst one to report anyone that "I knew for a fact" was selling illegal software or any other copy-rited items for all of that matter, But Only with very solid proof, in which case, manufacturer would certainly, and does, take these action(s) themselves.

Jeff

[treasure-pot]

Not to be too picky Jeff - I know that selling software on eBay is extremely competitive but 50+ million sellers???

That would suggest that 1 in 5 people registered on the site is selling software. I'm thinking that the number is a little inflated. 😄

Otherwise your post makes very valid points.

[katiusciav]

eBay removed all of my listings, contacted all of my bidders/clients etc. informing them of this, and subsequently Suspended me for 7 days until I could, AND DID, provide absolute proof that, in fact, my items (all) were valid.

this really pisses me off about ebay-they get a 'heads up' that someone's items may be fake and go nuts literally ruining the sellers reputation, ending and REMOVING entirely all their listings, and THEN they sit back with their little starbucks and start investigating. once they realize they've made a mistake, no compensation or nothing. what right does ebay have to 'inform' clients/bidders/suppliers/manufacturers etc...that a seller's items may POTENTIALLY be fake without investigating first?? call me crazy, but isn't that against the law somewhere out there? defamation of character, or something to that effect?

op, did ebay compensate you in any way for their 'mistaken' accusations and actions?
if ebay doesn't have enough staff members to investigate first before pulling, then they need to use some of that *wealth* they have to hire more employees so that sellers are treated with a little more respect. geez man.

is today the 25th? yes it is, that explains it...pms time!X-(

[numero_1]

a lot of times the pictures are copied of someone else's autcion or site and text is also copied so it doesn't realy mean is the same guy

[gamers_place]

Bill,

Not to be 'picky' either, but P L E A S E! After 30+ years of business and marketing experience, I did do my homework ok. The 'speculation' is on your part, did you research this??? I certainly did! Please validate your response before claiming speculation. In total there are more sellers selling on eBay (total for all catagories). I'm afraid to give you that number, but it's bigger than the population of Canada and the US Combined !!!
Check it out please before you reply to this, and yes, I do have that total number.

Kat,

I am Most Impressed by your response, your Exact on All of your response(s)!!! There was abosultely NO investigation beforehand offered and, although I tried to get compensation, eBay has quite the 'Legal Dream Team' mostly based in San Hose, CA. I won't mention the name of that security firm in this forum. I'm very shure that this is closely monitored in here!!! I'm already sticking my neck out an awful lot! I really appreciate your knowledgeable and complete 'heads up' understanding response, but please be careful! I don't want to take you down with my valid and personal experience. This is something that did affect me and my reputation very personally in the past, so I just couldn't leave it alone...and I Won't!!!

It's extreemly refreshing that you have the 'gut's' to call it exactly like it is though. I can't appreciate it enough.

This posted message really hit a very bad nerve with me, I'm not an excitable person, but the 1rst 2 people that responded to this post should also really do some research, ask questions etc. before they claim, "Absolutely, report it to Trust & Safety, Effa Bee Eye, etc." Where does the originator of this Post give Any proof at all???

Jeff

Post Script:
What it comes down to is that I REALLY appreciate All of the comments that you good people have posted after my response, but what I would Really like is that originator of this Post to respond to my initial response!!! For me and All of the Very good hard working sellers here, So how about it B1RJTD68???
You obviously can't mention this persons handle or name, and I certainly would be the 1rst to advise you against it! But you can tell me and all interested parties how you did come to this conclusion about another seller.
I would Really like to know.
I refer to you as the 'author/originator' only as obviously you didn't even sign your name to this very serious accusation that we are all aware of the consequences it may have.

Jeff Joseph Scanlon
Gamer_Place

[gamers_place]

Post Script #3,

Bill,

I appologise if my response to your comment seemed 'hostile' or argumentative in Any way, believe me, it was not meant that way.

In fact I really repect your input to my response. Your obviousy a very experinced and knowledgeable business person and your response's are actually invauable to me.

I have read Many of your replies to others and it has enlightened me on a lot of topics tremendously.

Thank you again for your very welcome a valuable response, it's very much appreciated.

Oh yea, and please understand that I do take these figures on a 'worldwide' basis, not just canada or n.Aamerica. Also, only a fraction of these numbers actually make their living from eBay!

Please enjoy the rest of your day!
Jeff

[gamers_place]

Kat,

In further response to yours, No, no compensation was ever given, or forth-coming. As for the Legal aspect, Yes, it's Highly Illegal for persons to make these type of drastic accusations and 'Defamation Suit' is valid but would be the 1rst if many if I ever was able to obtain the complaintant of my dilema. This would only be near the bottom of the barrel for All of the Actions I would have preferred against this uncouth person! If I had, I would now own everything they had, ...and Don't have!

Of course there is always the 'Privacy and Iformation Commssion' 'Ombudsmans Office' etc. etc., but we do get into an international issue on eBay, and foremost, we are committed to their rules are we not?

Don't get me wrong on that point, the Law is for Everyone, just that after we sign all, go through the incredibale mass red tape...on & on, yes, it's still worth it, but almost impossible to retrieve...but certainly Not impoosible!

I just believe after reading this 'Authors' Post that we need to send a Strong messgae to people who, "just get pissed-off' at someone and retaliates in a serious manner like this...nuff said.

Oh, sorry Kat, just meant to refer to your last paragraph "what time is it" lol. Gee, I looked and my watch said 'Beer Thirty'! I shure could use one now!

Thanx again for your kind and Very Valid response as usual!

Jeff

P.S. don't mind the spelin mistakes, typin wasn't my major lol.

[treasure-pot]

Jeff, let me validate my "pickyness" in the following way.

eBay statistics (last made available for the 3rd quarter of 2007) claim 248 million registered users worldwide. eBay claims 49% of it's revenues are derived from US sources and 51% from international business. (Source - eBay Marketplaces Fast Facts - As of Sept 30, 2007).

Currently there are just under 53,000 items listed in the software category on .com. Even assuming that there is a hundred fold number of pieces "hidden" in eBay stores and that every piece of software is sold by a different seller, that amounts to approximately 5 million sellers on .com. I hope we can both agree that it would be a poor assumption.

Stretching that another 45+ million on their international sites defies logic - which is exactly why I said it would represent 1 seller in 5 registered.

My "speculation" is based upon translating available data into what is possible. I've revealed my source for making this challenge. I hope you will also reveal you source for making your claim.:-)

Thanks for your comments in post 8. As I mentioned previously, I found many of your points in post 3 to be bang on.

[whoscloset]

I'm very shure that this is closely monitored in here!!!


Don't think so. I think this may be the least monitored board on the ebay platform. Us Canadians are just so boring. LOL

[gamers_place]

Bill,

Your putting a lot of words in my mouth here! Also, I never used the word assumption/assume. I never referred to 'logic' or how many items are currently listed, or 1rst quarter...2nd 3rd or any of that. I based my figures on my own research for global sellers. I'm not really concerned if there is only 53 software items currently listed or 53 billion! on whatever eBay site.
it's based on my research of global, registered sellers that I presented to the federal business development bureau. My figure did raise a lot of eye-brows with them to! In fact, my original figure was reduced to the more conservative 50+ million sellers! by these people based on their own research. These people are business experts with more alphabet soup beside their names than likely all of us put together!
On the coservative site tho, I did mention that the vast majority of this figure are only 'casual sellers' and I believe I did say that only a small fraction of this # actually make their living from this. I believe the actual number of 'software sellers' that were actually making their living off of this was approximately 760K, but don't quote me on that, I would have to re-check that again. Also, I'm not shure if 760k is domesic only or global.
I really don't know where you get this "1 in 5" figues, it does strengthen your argument, but where did that come from? You used that in your previous response as well. I mean, it didn't come from me?
In either case, I will be very happy to look at my own figures again, confirm them, and then give you the source(s), but Bill, were really getting off of the 'beaten path' here as to why I responded to this original Posting in the 1rst place.
That is what was most important...at least to me!! I suggest that one of us opens a new Post for this issue, I would really like to see this 1rst one dealt with as this type of action has previously affect me personally.

Also, some good advice for it from you and other knowledgable sellers has come from it.

Thanx for your response,

Jeff

Monique, boring??? ...come on now, haven't you already picked on Kat enough???

Jeff

[gamers_place]

Bill,

Sorry, I just perused me detailed business plan that I created some time ago. In fact my figure of over 50 million Web sites selling software & computer/video games was accurate, BUT, based on a very general search of the internet, not including all large retailers.

Please accept my appology and I think we can both agree on a much more conservative figure on eBay alone.

But the fact remains, that it's a fact that the average Canadian household has at least one computer, with the American market following closely behind. This creates a lot of good sellers who can and do make their living from software.

My point here was that out of these, yes, I'm very shure that there's some piracy going on with a very small number of these sites, but is it better to hang one innocent person and let 2 guilty go free. I don't believe that for a minute and I don't believe you do either?

When some select persons scream piracy with no foundation at all, likely because there just 'peeved off' at another seller? ...or just can't take the competition? Whatever! I just don't see any proof offered.

I truly hope that you feel where this is the point I'm 'bang on' with?

The real debate I would like to happen here is this seller showing us her proof, sources etc. for making this claim and possible complaint against another seller. It's not a personal attack on her, I believe that a lot of us would like to know how she bases this accusation, not just a select few telling her where to report someone they don't even know, or even know if in fact they've done anything wrong!

Anyways, I hope you accept my appology in the good nature it was intended.

Jeff

[katiusciav]

yea monique...come on now...haven't you picked on me enough??? ?:| (scratching my head)

[treasure-pot]

Jeff, no problem and yes, you have very valid points. eBay is frequently guilty of "shooting" first and asking questions later - often based on little more that another user's say-so. It is certainly not limited to software as the eBay user "tabberone" (http://www.tabberone.com/) can attest.

There have been a good number of sellers over the years that have had their entire stores closed unjustifiably. It causes them, in some cases, enormous financial loss immediately and in the future through loss of customers.

In those instances where eBay has been proven wrong, little has been done to compensate the seller or penalize the accuser. IMO, eBay needs to be a little more diligent in investigating and a little less trigger-happy. This doesn't just apply to VERO claims - Trust and Safety investigations often are little more than a quick peek followed by an even quicker yank. In many instances it was obvious that the item was legitimate if only the entire listing was read.

I do disagree that it is the accuser's obligation to show proof. I have always likened the eBay community to a giant Neighbourhood Watch. If you see something suspicious it should be reported to allow eBay to investigate. But as with Neighbourhood Watch, not every investigation should result in the immediate tasering of someone. I do also think eBay needs to take action against someone filing frivolous reports on a frequent basis.

[canadabeltbuckles]

OMG!!

I can't believe how my original post was transformed into a post dealing with the number of people with listings on Ebay... ?:|

The person who was listing illegal items on Ebay had them pulled, (for the 3rd time in a year)...

Thanks for everyone's input on my original post. All were great comments... 🙂