Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

valve37
Community Member

For businesses in Brockville, the attempt to lure them over the border wasn’t new. But the pitch was.

Earlier this winter, manufacturers in the Eastern Ontario community received a letter reminding them that their province’s industrial electricity rates were projected to rise by 33 per cent over the next five years, and 55 per cent by 2032.

“As a hedge against these increases,” it suggested, “setting up an operation just across the border in St. Lawrence County, New York, may be a competitive strategy you should consider.”

Such overtures, if not in written form then made more casually, are becoming increasingly common in Ontario. While they may not find immediate takers, they are emblematic of the mounting economic threat from an energy-cost trajectory that – following a series of questionable policy decisions – the province now seems powerless to do much about.

Owing mostly to a combination of overdue investments in infrastructure, phasing out coal and an ill-fated gamble on green energy, soaring power rates have already greatly increased the cost of doing business in Ontario. That’s particularly true for those in the troubled manufacturing sector. In a report last month, the Association of Major Power Consumers of Ontario (AMPCO) alleged that the province now has “the highest industrial rates in North America”; per that report, prices are currently 37 per cent higher than in neighbouring New York for the province’s biggest industrial users, and 68 per cent higher for smaller ones.

Adding insult to injury is that, because an excess of energy supply has come online at a time of decreased demand, Ontario is currently selling surplus power to New York and other neighbours at a steeply discounted rate. While that may play only a marginal role in enabling them to offer lower prices to consumers, it adds to frustration on this side of the border – not so much with those taking advantage, as with perceived mismanagement of the province’s energy market that has given them the opportunity to do so.

“It’s not anything to do with them – they’re capitalizing on an opportunity,” said Brockville Chamber of Commerce executive director Anne MacDonald about St. Lawrence County. “It’s more about the hike in electricity costs.”

Ms. MacDonald is quick to note that those costs have yet to actually drive any of the region’s businesses to move, and local industry leaders say such decisions would be far more complex. “If a decision like that was ever forced to be made, it would involve more than the price of electricity,” said Northern Cables CEO Shelley Bacon, citing factors such as labour costs and the strength of the Canadian dollar.

But Mr. Bacon, whose company makes industrial and power cables, says energy prices have in the past couple of years “started to creep onto the radar screen” when it comes to making investment decisions.

Influencing where new investments are made rather than trying to get companies to uproot themselves altogether is what St. Lawrence County says it was aiming for. “The pitch isn’t for a Canadian company to move over here,” said Patrick Kelly, the CEO of the industrial development agency that sent the letter. “What works best for us is some kind of satellite or companion facility.”

While insisting that setting up operations in New York can complement those in Ontario though, Mr. Kelly acknowledges that his agency “ramped things up last year” in terms of emphasizing its power advantage, because it recognized energy prices as “clearly something that’s frustrating the industrial world over there.” And to date, he says, the county has gotten “some response” to the hundreds of mailings it sent out.

For its part, Kathleen Wynne’s government points to a pair of recently introduced programs aimed at providing price relief to manufacturers – one allowing the biggest users to save by shifting production to off-peak times, the other trying to direct some of that surplus power at discounted rates to smaller companies starting up or expanding. Neither, according to a spokesperson for Energy Minister Bob Chiarelli, was factored into AMPCO’s cross-border comparisons.

There is speculation that further such measures will be announced this spring, and it’s not hard to see why. With government and even opposition sources conceding price increases are an inescapable fact of life in the coming years, the province will need to get creative in trying to mitigate their effects. Meanwhile, the stateside pitch that businesses have recently started to hear will fast become more familiar.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/soaring-energy-prices-making-ontario-look-dim-for-manuf...

 

 Here's enlightening facts for Ontario:
Eleven years ago, Ontario had a vibrant, inexpensive energy sector;
Electricity use in Ontario has now decreased by 6% since 2006.
( result of Conservation and having fewer industrial customers)
in 2013 Ontario paid Quebec, Michigan and Ohio $1 Billion to take excess power off our hands. ($250 per Ontario household!)
Ontario pays 11-15.5 cents kwh for wind energy.(on contracts)
Ontario now has
the highest electricity rates in North America.
the SmartMeters
installed since 2009 cost $750 each - now they want to buy "better ones" = $800/each - ???who pays for those???
Manufacturers are leaving Ontario due to unaffordable electricity;
Almost 1 million Ontarian’s are out of work.
(one of the highest unemployment rates in Canada).
Ontario is "the have-not province" now with a debt of $227 billion.
Ontario is spending $11 billion building transmission lines just to feed energy from wind turbines.(That’s an additional $2750 cost to
your household.)
Your Ontario hydro rates will continue to increase every May and October to pay for new wind energy. (it's almost MAY again!)
Over the next 20 years, your household will pay an
additional $40,000+ for electricity....just to pay for the cost of wind energy will add $110,000,000,000.00 to our electrical bills. That’s $110 billion.
- -
the really interesting thing about Wind Power:
You
cannot use WIND to replace a hydro, coal, gas or oil power generator -WIND only produces electricity when IT WANTS not when you need it!

Promotional information was mailed in 2014 to Ontario’s Manufacturing sector citing Ontario’s high energy costs as a good reason to relocate to New York State....

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

I wonder if they ever take into the account the cost of all these out work people living on poggy or welfare will cost the province..

 

Going Solar is the way but is a huge initial investment... There is a family in a near by town that Hooked up solar and when Hydro tol them the cost to hook up into the grid ( FYI I no little about this so my wording may be wrong ) Hydro one want 30,000 just for the final connection to the grid or however that works so now the family said no way and wasted all that money on sollar panels and time on work .. ( they should have check first but that is crazy expensive....

 

The way Ontario is going the whole province is going to end of a Ghost town so to speak ..

 

I personally have a goal to be off the grid within 10 years but that may not pan out within the hike in Hydo cost the gold mines up here may close there doors very quickly  .....

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

I will pay the bill because just like most on here I am just a a push over and prefer to talk about whats right and wrong instead of actually trying to do something ...

 

Things will change one day because they will have to because if were ll broke and poor what do we have to give.. .... Why did Alberta get there tax rate changed.. Or smart meters taking away.. The only difference is they fought for it ...

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

Let's have an honest look at the source of the problem.

 

In 1998, the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario (PC) government of Mike Harris passed the Energy Competition Act which authorized the establishment of a market in electricity. In April 1999, Ontario Hydro was re-organized into five successor companies: Ontario Power Generation, the Ontario Hydro Services Company (later renamed Hydro One), the Independent Electricity Market Operator (later renamed the Independent Electricity System Operator), the Electrical Safety Authority, and Ontario Electricity Financial Corporation. The two commercial companies, Ontario Power Generation and Hydro One, were intended to eventually operate as private businesses rather than as crown corporations.

By 2001, Hydro One had acquired 88 municipal utilities. In December 2001 the provincial government announced the intention to sell Hydro One under an initial public offering, however by April 2002 various groups in opposition to the plan were able to successfully challenge the government in the Ontario Superior Court, forcing a halt to the IPO.[5]

In 2002 an electricity market began operating. However, critics questioned, among other things, whether the market was truly competitive or could ever become competitive, given that an electricity grid is not a private good. Public dismay at an increase in prices led the government of Harris's successor, Ernie Eves, to freeze electricity prices for residential and small business consumers. This freeze was maintained after the Liberal Party of Dalton McGuinty replaced the PC government in 2003. The freeze was removed and prices were raised in April 2004, and have been increased again subsequently.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydro_One

 

It is way too easy to blame the current or recent governments for the increasing electricity cost problem.  It really started over fifteen years ago, under Mike Harris, in a misguided effort to restructure and sell Ontario Hydro - to generate funds to balance the provincial budget and give high income earners and large corporations a tax break, after having cut welfare payments to the needy by 22%.

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

Name anything Pierre that hasn't increased in price over the past 15 years? It's the Wynne/McGuinty energy policy on wind turbines, solar farms and relocation of gas fired complexes that are ballooning power costs and will continue to do so. I don't recall Harris building any of these money sucking monsters. It appears it's the Liberals in power for 10 years, are the culprits that have done the damage to Ontario's future prosperity. Of course you must be aware of other numerous Liberal scandals that have added to the deficit and debt making us a have not province.

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

I will never vote for Conservatives as they do very little to gain my trust.

Note highway 407

costs more per kilometer than more expensive Europe

Does nothing to lesson the grid lock on the 401 as it was designed to do

 

London charges a toll to enter the congested central areas

Highways that keep traffic away are free for obvious reasons

London also has a very efficient subway and bus system

Ontario does not

 

That said This Ontario energy situation is out of control.

 

The Liberal government is just as right wing as the Conservatives and  has made a mockery of governance for the people.

I am for renewable energy but not for loosing billions on  plants that get cancelled any more than I enjoy the Fed paying the USA billions for Fighter planes that only claim to be better than others on offer and we might see in 5 years or so.

 

I cannot believe the Conservatives would be able to achieve the same depths of incompetence but it is possible with their present leader.

 

So what we have is neither party capable of fixing the utilities that charge the highest prices  in North America and pay their executives more than any of their peers in North America.

Its a farce

 

Remember that low energy prices should be for all. not just companies

the people are hurting as well.

 

I am not sure the NDP could make a change either.

 

Sad.

 

Votes count

whatever your political bent

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

Valve, Pierre was talking about how our Hydro got into the predicament it is now in. The turbines are a separate entity and although I agree they are wrong to be FORCED on people and municipalities and their reliability and performance is highly questionable, the big question is, what are you going to do about it? I say 'you' because you have always been a Conservative backer and what do you think Hudak is going to do? What has Hudak said he will do? The answer to both is 'nothing". What Hudak will do is start slicing and dicing everything he can and we will end up in the same disaster as when his trainer Harris was in power, plus we will still have the high hydro rates and all Hudak will say is "not my fault the Liberals did that". Do not forget that both Hudak and his wife worked for Harris and the branch doesn't fall far from the tree.

Am I happy with the Liberal government? Absolutely not. Do I trust Hudak? Absolutely unequivocally not! So in the political game we are forced to play who is left? The NDP and deep inside I still don't trust them in many ways.

I wish we would get away from this forsaken party system and vote for all independents as well as a separate vote for the Premier. I think we would get better politicians and leaders because they refuse to fit into the party mold and tow the party line and not be faced with punishment if they go against the gang and their leader.





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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

Little can be done regarding Wynne/McGuinty's flawed energy policy for the future contracts he signed I hear are bullet proof and can't be broken without major additional cost. Get used to more and more turbines along your Huron shorline!   

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

There's always something that can be done. It just takes a little imagination.





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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

So true .. There is always something that can be done ... If hydro one can afford to pay a Billion dollars to give aways billion in hydro then why can't they afford to stop hiking the costs....

 

I mean I am no master mind here but that is just about the dumbest business decision I have ever heard of ...

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

 
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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

Liberals arent perfect. They take two steps forward and take a step back here and there. In Ontario, I think they have done a pretty good job overall. Im not gonna let a little energy price hike change my vote.

Conservatives on the other hand do nothing but takes steps back or follow status quo(because they have no choice but to). Almost every idea they put out, I disagree with.

 

Ontarians never really tried NDP. Who is to say they wont do a good job?. We have ran with both parties. I dont see why we are so fearful of them.

 

 

 

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

I think NDP would be a good option for Ontario to try out.. how much worse can it get .. If you work for minumum wage you already need to work 2 jobs to afford to live ..

 

imagine have kids,vehicle,home trying to live in Ontario right now ...

 

I could just imagine Well we have to sell the car so i can Afford the $300 a month to heat my house and the $200-$300 a month to have the lights...

 

These prices hike happening are not little by no means ... specially in northern communities ..

 

2103 cost me nearly $3000 for hydro and $3000 to heat my house ... That 6k a year without insurance,morgages,vehicles,food,kids,fun ....

 

That is not small on my radar even though I make good money it is still a mssive chunk a money per year just to have a t.v.,computer on and my house heated

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

The NDP had their chance with Bob Rae as Premier.                   The NDP party did more damage to the province during their term than any other party , before or after.

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

"The NDP had their chance with Bob Rae as Premier. "

 

True

 

But the Conservatives had their chance with Mike Harris and he also blew it.  That does not mean that Ontario will never again elect Conservatives.  Ontarians may just do that in the next election.

 

Canadians are quick to forget the mistakes of some political parties.  Take the Conservatives and Mulroney.  It only took fifteen years or so for the Conservatives (under Harper) to come back to power.  Or the scandal plagued Liberals in Quebec - back with a majority in less than a year!

 

Yes, folks forget and forgive. The same may also happen to the NDP.  Who knows?

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

Anyone in their right mind wouldn't vote for Hudak. His mentor and that of his wife was Harris. They are both dyed in the wool Harris Conservatives.

 

Harper/Mulroney were far apart and Harper is not a true Conservative, even Joe Clark openly said that. And Harper never would have got elected in the first place if it were not for the Liberal/Quebec mistake. Then after that Harper couldn't get a majority even with two contenders who had as much appeal as squashed Timmies cup on the highway. Increasingly I find more and more people tired of Harper. They want to see real changes and more good jobs instead of his constant selling them off with trade deals to countries like China. Trudeau the elder came into power during a time when people desperately wanted a change and a new future and Trudeau the younger is providing the same. Short of making a huge mistake, Trudeau is going to give Harper a real run for his money. Even in the farmland with traditional Conservative supporters, I'm hearing more and more people who are tired of Harper, his treatment of democracy and his secretness hidden under a perfect suit and hair.

 

My predication for Ontario is the Liberals will win but not a majority and the NDP if they get their ducks lined up may take a close opposition. Hudak, too soon after Harris and people just don't like or trust Hudak's demeanor. The biggest mistake the Cons did in Ontario is keep him. As much as Wynne and the Liberals are disliked, Hudak is her biggest asset. People will suffer with what they know, hoping for a better future, than jump from the pot into the fire with someone who has Harris written all over him.

 

Federally, it's a real tossup. NDP, not a prayer. Mulcair should have read the manual on politics, people don't trust political leaders with beards, but that's only a minor problem. Between Harper and Trudeau it's neck and neck and depends what Trudeau has up his sleeve as the election comes closer. Either way, Harper's majority days are over.   





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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

The McGuinty/Wynne legacy

 

Milan_Billboard.jpg

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

A long time ago a famous baseball coach called Casey Stengel once said.........."if you have complaints, you better have some answers to go along with them". (that's not verbatim, but it's close)

I'm not happy with the Liberals and well you know how I feel about Harper. The debt both in Ontario and Federally has risen massively. The immediate question is of course that one word "why" and albeit it's a simple and short word, it's not an easy word. We can talk about the cost of war in Afghanistan that in the end served no real purpose (be glad we didn't go into Iraq as Harper wanted to do). We can talk about the aging population and the cost for healthcare. We can talk about mismanagement and friendly behind the curtains handshakes including some that were 'golden'. All of these and more including what many would consider waste of money in some areas are all contributing factors, but they're there now and what as Stengel would say......is the 'answer'?

 

Here's my take on the Big picture........

First of all there has to be cut backs in many areas but not areas of importance such as healthcare. Other areas like mass or rapid transit are just vote getters for people who want more and more and more and then complain later how much it's costing them in taxes.

We an also cut more jobs and save money but remember that those working people pay taxes and you don't get taxes off people on unemployment, or welfare, or people who now find themselves working at Timmies for next to nothing. Our unemployment rate is too high as it is and even those employed are finding that the jobs they find just don't pay like they use to. So we can cut jobs on one end but lose on the other long term.

My view is our worst decision .........let me correct that........the worst decision of our politicians who went along with the wealthy of our society, was selling us a bill of goods and slight of hand on the different free trade deals. In the long run it did us and even the US no good. Oh it made the richer richer, but it did not help the average worker. We have lost a lot of jobs and manufacturing in Ontario especially, which at one time was the hub of manufacturing in Canada. Who benefits from this Free Trade, well of course the wealthy CEOs and the corporate owners and the investors, but also other countries. We are making other countries richer and richer and with that comes more power and believe me, this will come back and bite us in the butt later. Now I'm all for trade with other countries, it's been done since the dawn of time, but I'm not for trade using desperate workers for what are virtually slave wages and at the same time damaging and destroying our own manufacturing base. To me these big corporate leaders and politicians such as Harper who is going around the world working on even more free trade deals are as equal a traitor as someone who sells military secrets to another country. Those destroy us militarily, but free trade is quietly destroying us internally. What's even worse is the **bleep** that is being made in other countries is.......**bleep**! In N. America we use to make quality products that lasted but these days the garbage made in other countries to cut costs, are planned obsolescence.

So the end result is yes our politicians can't be trusted (as if they ever really were) but the real problem is our loss of jobs and loss of good jobs. With the loss of these jobs and good paying jobs, the average person is going increasingly into debt because the concept of 'if you can't afford it, don't buy it', is foreign to a lot of people, especially when the banks are offering people more credit cards and lines of credit and loans. We as a province and a country are in a mess and there is one answer in my books, bring the manufacturing back to the people.      





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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

Are you prepared for the 4.9% increase in the cost of electricity during the peak time? 

 

Starting May 1  Ms. Wynne will be gouging the residents of Ontario even more.

 

The increase is necessary to pay  the US for the power we are giving  them.

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Soaring energy prices making Ontario look dim for manufacturers

No I am not happy at all with the increases and the future increase. I have a large shop and power tools and they run 8 hours a day.......you don't want to see my hydro bills! My earlier comment was not in defense of turbine power or the Liberal government's handling of all of this.......it's a Disaster! However, we have to do something when it comes to our pollution of the country and the planet and that was my point. The rest of my comment was the way money is spent in other areas. Everyone complains.......it's time for constructive 'answers' and it's not just get rid of the Liberals, we need much more than that.





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