05-13-2013 11:03 AM
Today I listed a stamp, Canada Scott Catalogue number 19, item # 330922861121, depicting a picture of Jacque Cartier, a French explorer who lived from 1491 to 1547 and claimed Canada for France. The stamp I listed was issued in 1859. The listing page had huge warnings telling me to be sure that I was listing an authentic Cartier item. Come on Ebay - read your flipping history books and learn the difference between a stamp and a jewelry item.
05-13-2013 01:26 PM
Ebay should not be restricting usage of "Cartier" because names and surnames cannot be registered as trademarks in Canada.
http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr02363.html
What's stopping someone to call their dog "Microsoft Office" and then post add "Selling genuine 4 months old Microsoft Office" 🙂
05-13-2013 01:47 PM
Ebay should not be restricting usage of "Cartier" because names and surnames cannot be registered as trademarks in Canada.
http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr02363.html
What's stopping someone to call their dog "Microsoft Office" and then post add "Selling genuine 4 months old Microsoft Office" 🙂
Can't sell live animals on ebay 🙂
05-13-2013 01:48 PM
The OP should grill the pinks about this on Wednesday 😄
05-13-2013 02:00 PM
That is not the only history they need to learn. They removed mt British Sudan stamps because of the embargo against Sudan.
The stamps are long pre-embargo. British Sudan is 1899-1956. The embargo started in 2002!
05-13-2013 02:16 PM
Not to be picayune, but a surname that has come to be associated with a well-known product is registrable as a trade mark in Canada (I did a lot of trade mark legal work in a past profession). For interest, from CIPO's website, same link as above:
"An exception to this rule is if you can prove that your goods or services have become distinctive under the name or surname so that the word has acquired a secondary meaning in the public mind."
So, for example, "Chanel" could be (and probably is) registered in Canada.
However, this has nothing to do with eBay's "brand misuse" policies, which are supposed to prevent sellers from taking advantage of the visibility of recognizable brand names, either by association or out-and-out fraud. Whether a particular trade name or mark could be registered in Canada is irrelevant -- if it's a popular brand with world-wide recognition, they will restrict its use to authorized sellers.
You can of course call a dog anything you like, but I think eBay would probably remove a listing to sell a dog named "Microsoft Office" or "Chanel", or similar well-known brand name, for the reasons mentioned. It amounts to tagging along on the coat-tails of someone else's established name to make a sale, and I can completely understand eBay restricting this sort of back-door fraud.
However, the big problem, as "fatdane" has discovered, is that eBay's computer "police" searches don't have human judgment and/or (what is worse) most of their human surveillance people don't seem to have enough understanding to tell the difference between, for example, a historical figure and a luxe jewellery brand.
To 'fatdane' -- just a word of advice, as I've been on the receiving end of extremely stupid removal of listings based on erroneous decision-making by eBay in somewhat similar circumstances. You may find your listing will be removed as well. If it is, you can try Customer Service, although I found them completely uninformed and totally confused on the subject of brands, trade names, etc. I finally had to bring the matter up with the "Pinks" and it got resolved, thank goodness, as it would have restricted an entire category of my items.
There is little else you can do except wait and see if the brand police take your listing down. Even if you put a hyphen or some other character between "Jacques" and "Cartier", I think the eBay bots would still pick it up -- it seems they're getting more detailed, but not any more sophisticated, at picking up the real wrongdoers.
05-13-2013 02:19 PM
The OP should grill the pinks about this on Wednesday 😄
Actually, this is probably the best advice for the moment -- the "Pink" who resolved my issue was very, very, helpful. Good luck with this!:-)
05-13-2013 02:27 PM
Grill was a typo...
I of course meant gently ask B-)
As far as not being able to register a family name or surname as a copyright.
Does that mean I could open a store tomorrow and call it
Simpson's
or
Birks
And they couldn't do anything about it?
Or call my restaurant McDonalds :^O
05-13-2013 02:40 PM
As far as not being able to register a family name or surname as a copyright.
Does that mean I could open a store tomorrow and call it
Simpson's or Birks
And they couldn't do anything about it?
Or call my restaurant McDonalds :^O
Short answer: no, you couldn't, so sorry! 🙂
Before registering a trademark you are obliged to conduct a special search of the trademarks database, and chances are that names like "Birks" and "McDonalds" are already registered. Companies like Chanel and Dior, have to submit paperwork of authorized ownership of the trade mark or previous TM registration. So, even if your last name happens to be "McDonald", you'd have to think up another trade name/mark.
Incidentally, in case anyone is interested, eBay also has a complete disconnect where trade marks and copyright are concerned. These are two entirely different legal concepts and eBay Customer Service has absolutely no clue! I've been through it with them, ad nauseum, and it was utterly hopeless. If it hadn't been for the intelligent intervention of one of the Pinks to resolve the issue, I'd be out of business by now. 😞
05-13-2013 02:52 PM
I think Pierre also ran into problems with the Cartier name when listing stamps in years past. So far the listing has not been removed. When I still had my store open this stamp sat in it for several years with no complaints from Ebay, and to the best of my recollection no stern warnings when I listed it then.
05-13-2013 02:56 PM
When I still had my store open this stamp sat in it for several years with no complaints from Ebay, and to the best of my recollection no stern warnings when I listed it then.
Yes, I would say the "crackdown" has really only been ramped up in the last few months. I'd had my items (or similar ones) listed for many months before the eBay bots targeted it. There is also the possibility that it was reported by someone who was ignorant of the facts, and eBay, being ignorant as well, just removed the listings without contacting me at all. That was the part I most objected to.
05-13-2013 03:00 PM
I get these warnings alot listing photos and post cards
Usually occurs with items using the word Indian
IE: Indian River Stoney Lake Ontario
This is the name of a River not a Native American Artifact
Just ignore the warning and list but have thought is ebay going to nail me for it? So far no but could happen
Strangest one was a photo I had of American Troops in France wearing Gas Masks. Not only did I get a warning but ebay would not allow it to be listed no matter what I tried
Gas Masks are apparently restricted on ebay but looking at the listings there are many there
Called Customer Support and they agreed this should not be restricted They tried and no way could they get it through so I had to give up listing it
About 5 years ago I had 2 items removed from ebay cause they they were Tiffany related
These were 1920's, 30's Jewelry Cases No jewellry involved just the cases
Got a notice from ebay saying I had 2 strikes registered to my account due to VERO
Before contacting Ebay I took a few hours researching these items according to VERO
Turned out they were not restricted and allowed to be listed here
Wrote a very long email to ebay showing them the relevant rules they had regarding these and showing Tiffany had no problem with these being sold in the Antique Market on and offline
Took a few days but ebay agreed. They had contacted Tiffany and Tiffany confirmed what I wrote
They reversed the strikes and I was told I could relist them and a note would be attached to my account saying these were allowed if I listed more in the future
Relisted them and both sold but not for what I had bid on them the first time
weavers
05-13-2013 04:20 PM
Whether a particular trade name or mark could be registered in Canada is irrelevant -- if it's a popular brand with world-wide recognition, they will restrict its use to authorized sellers.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying but while a company can have rules and regulations that their authorized dealers have to follow, they can not tell a person who owns one of their authentic items that they can not sell it on a particular venue.
Some companies will take advantage of the vero system and have ebay take down an authentic listing because they don't want their items sold on ebay but technically they are allowed to do that only if the item is not authentic....not because that person is not an authorized seller.
05-13-2013 04:23 PM
Good for you Weavers! I've heard lots of stories where an item was taken down and the company just ignored the seller when they tried to prove that the item was authentic. Persistence can work!
05-13-2013 04:36 PM
my one regret was that I kept all the research on my puter regarding this case if I needed to do it again at any time
It took awhile to get it done
My puter crashed and I lost it all
Could do it again if need be but would take time
Note to self copy the dang thing out next time and keep it in a safe place
weavers
05-13-2013 04:36 PM
Good afternoon Dennis.
Ah... the "good old days" !
About five or six years ago, after having lost a court case against Cartier etc... eBay Inc came to an agreement with several French sellers/manufacturers whereby "Cartier" (an many others) could not be used in the title of an eBay listing on most eBay international sites, including Canada!
When I attempted to list the 1855 or 1859 or 1934 Canadian stamps depicting Jacques Cartier or the 1931 stamp depicting George-Etienne Cartier, the eBay.ca would NOT let me post them. Period. I talked to the good folks in Toronto, including the country manager at the time, to no avail.
I ended up listing the stamps on eBay.com where it was no problem (at the time)!
Sometimes, I regrettefully have only one word to describe some of eBay's policies. Unfortunately, it seems I have to use that word more often than ever before:
STUPID.
05-13-2013 05:00 PM
Whether a particular trade name or mark could be registered in Canada is irrelevant -- if it's a popular brand with world-wide recognition, they will restrict its use to authorized sellers.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying but while a company can have rules and regulations that their authorized dealers have to follow, they can not tell a person who owns one of their authentic items that they can not sell it on a particular venue.
Some companies will take advantage of the vero system and have ebay take down an authentic listing because they don't want their items sold on ebay but technically they are allowed to do that only if the item is not authentic....not because that person is not an authorized seller.
Yes, you're quite right, sorry about the confusion. What I meant to say was that eBay restricts recognized brand sales to authentic items only; 'authorized sellers' was not the right term to use in this context. I probably should have said 'legitimate' sellers (meaning those who can authenticate the item properly, not just licensed dealers).
However I believe eBay may have a restriction on the number of items of a particular brand name that can be sold during a given period. At one point I had a few authentic Chanel vintage items that I listed over about a one-month period, and the last listing was taken down with a message to the effect that I'd reached the allowable limit for that type of item. I think this may be connected with Pierre's remarks about agreements reached between eBay and certain top-name fashion brands. I don't know whether this restriction still applies on eBay, but I wouldn't be surprised.
05-13-2013 05:03 PM
This site has some information about fighting vero. There is quite a bit to read but I found it really interesting.
http://www.tabberone.com
05-13-2013 05:09 PM
P.S. - 'PJ' - I see you still have "that" item listed that I like so much. Do you take layaway? Send me a note via eBay messages. 🙂
05-13-2013 05:24 PM
However I believe eBay may have a restriction on the number of items of a particular brand name that can be sold during a given period.
I don't believe that ebay has a limit on the number of listings on the site for a specific brand name although they will sometimes limit a particular seller. If a seller lists a number of items that are prone to being counterfeited, they may restrict that seller from listing more of that brand for a specific amount of time. They tend to do that with newer sellers or when someone doesn't have a track record for selling that brand name.
I used to spend a lot of time on sites like The Purse Forum where counterfeit bags, ebay restrictions, vero etc were often discussed. I'm not looking for ways to disagree with you..honest. 🙂