eBay

lovely_vintage · ‎08-19-2015

I just had another US customer trash my DSRs because, as he put it:  "he could have mailed a package that size for $2.00 and it would have arrived in 4 days or less". 
I am the west coast of Canada. He is in Maine. The small packet air (Canada Post's cheapest option for a package that size and the option/cost he agreed to when he bought the item) was clearly listed in the ad, as was my location. That shipping cost was shown on the package. The package arrived to him on the other side of the continent, in another country (which meant a stay in customs) in just two weeks. Yet he gave me 1 star in every category and berated my "shipping practices" in a private message and in my feedback. He is a seller as well, and judging from his reaction to someone's negative comment in his own selling feedback, he is fully aware of how low DSRs can affect a seller.
This has happened several times in the last few months. My DSRs are now down from 5 to 4.8, so I am expecting some sort of eBay sanction soon. 
I don't want to put one of those 'if you don't like the shipping costs, don't buy from me' diatribes in my listings as it tends to appear confrontational. I have tried raising my prices and offering free shipping in the past and my sales tanked badly.
How do other Canadian sellers handle this issue? Is there any recourse if you can actually prove the low ratings were unfairly given?

momcqueen · ‎08-19-2015

I fully sympathize. Do you have tracking? Can you demonstrate to ebay that you dispatched it fast and that he is being unreasonable? More importantly, does this person sell what you do? If so, it may be grounds for 'feedback manipulation' removal.

No matter, going forward. If I may: shorten your handling time. Two days is too long for a buyer to wait to see their item is shipped. If you can't control what the post office does, you can control what happens on your end. Stop, drop and get that package out as soon as it is paid and include in the shipping notice AND packing slip that 'your item was dispatched in ___ hours.' My listings stipulate same-day and for me that means I aim for a six-hour turnaround with all items going to the post office that day and before the last pick-up so it gets into the mail stream as fast as is possible.

Also, was the item listed on ebay.ca or ebay.com? Given your buyer is American, he would have likely bought it through ebay.com which says 'From Canada' in the search results but also gives him a specific delivery time in the listing itself. Use the most specific shipping option possible. I find the 'standard international shipping' to be too vague for my liking. If you're shipping via Canada Post Small Packets, ebay knows exactly how long it will take and, in my experience, reflects that accurately in the item listing. And do not add a cent in handling costs to your shipping. Build it into the price. No one likes to pay for shipping but what buyers displace even more is padding the pocket of a seller when they've already bought something. And make it clear in your packing slip and item listings that you don't add handling to your postage costs. Canadian seller will always be at a disadvantage there. Our postage costs more.

Best of luck as you carry forward.

mr.elmwood · ‎08-19-2015

What MJ says, start to finish. Read between MJ's lines, there is a subtle message about managing emotions in there.

There is also the classic error in believing that the customer "agreed' to the stated delivery costs simply because you posted them. The did not agree, they reluctantly paid an additional charge they were not happy about. The additional charge caused their expectations of delivery to go up.

Today's customers actually believe shipping is free and that sellers pay nothing. That, or, the posted cost is heavily inflated and we are making a profit from those S&H charges.

I have been moving the bulk of my listings to "free" shipping. The posted price is the price they pay.

62% of all transactions are "touched" by a mobile device. 65% of all listing views, the customer does not read the description. On a mobile device, the customer gets a window with: title, first picture, price. They look at the pictures and decide to buy or not. Push some buttons and it is done.

They never read the description. Never read about $&H costs. Never read where it was coming from. Don't know and some don't care. They want what they want and they want it yesterday.

Your job as an independent business, is to manage these expectations when you have limited control.

.
.
.

rose-dee · ‎08-19-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:
Given your buyer is American, he would have likely bought it through ebay.com which says 'From Canada' in the search results but also gives him a specific delivery time in the listing itself. Use the most specific shipping option possible. I find the 'standard international shipping' to be too vague for my liking.

'mj', my understanding is that no specific postal options/descriptions for Canada Post products are available if Canadian seller is listing on .com, i.e. "standard international shipping" is it. I could be mistaken, but perhaps someone who regularly lists on .com can clarify this.

To the OP: The only advice I can offer is to get parcels out the door as quickly as possible, and communicate that fact to the buyer immediately via a personal note (there are 3 places on eBay to do this - Messages, Sales Record, and Invoice if you send one -- plus the Paypal note when you prepare the label; I tend to use 2 of these 4 messaging features after every sale). I don't care if eBay's automated system duplicates the same information. It's robot messages aren't a personal thank-you note from me, signed with my name.

In terms of cost vs. shipping service, I sympathize. It's not always possible for Canadian sellers to offer tracking on every shipment unless the item cost justifies it. However, because I've found Light/Small Packet to be extremely reliable and reasonably priced to the U.S., it's my primary choice. Since Light/Small Pkt it's relatively cheap in comparison to Tracked Packet or Expedited, I subsidize my U.S. buyers' shipping costs. I use a number of strategies to pay for those subsidies, but I've been able to keep my shipping prices in line with my U.S. competitors and meet my (primarily U.S.) customers' expectations.

All of the above being said, you may have encountered a bit of a rotten apple in this particular buyer. If he/she is a competitor, there may have been some motive behind the bad DSRs. If you suspect that is the case (check the buyer's FB pages), I'd try to have the FB, the DSRs and the defect reversed. There's no guarantee, but it's certain that it won't disappear on its own -- and you'll be stuck with the defect for a year -- so it may be worth a try.

lovely_vintage · ‎08-19-2015

Thank you both so much for your comments. Very much appreciated!

The two days mentioned in the ads is only in case something way outside the norm happens. Also, if someone buys after 5pm on a Friday. I can have their item in the mail lickety split, which I always do, but it's not actually going anywhere until Monday. Not sure if that's the case everywhere in Canada, but it certainly is on Vancouver Island. As a rule, I have items in the mail within a few hours, or sometimes minutes if I'm at the computer when something sells (I live a block and a half from a postal outlet!)

That said, this person's package was literally at the post office within two hours of payment.

I do not have any handling charges. I send items wrapped in tissue and/or bubble wrap inside small white boxes, inside bubble envelopes, all purchased at my own expense.

I probably would not have been as taken aback if it weren't for the PM explaining why he gave me all 1's.

It's not only unreasonable to assume that one country's shipping rates must be the same as another's, but he said in his (positive) feedback comment that my item was as described but left a 1 in the DSR's for 'as described'..... presumably to teach me an even harsher lesson about shipping charges?

The last poor shipping cost score I got from a US buyer (who felt the need to PM me about why they did it) said the same thing "US shipping is a lot cheaper", but at least they only dinged my shipping charge category, not every category.

In both cases, the only response I gave was to politely thank them for their input. But I admit, I blocked the second guy after reading his message (no, I didn't mention that to him.)

Also, per your question, he does sell exactly what I sell. I notice he is VERY defensive and verbal about his own DSR's in his responses to feedback on his page.

There seems to be no use in disputing DSR's with eBay. I had a customer try to get a partial refund because she thought a pair of earrings would be bigger (despite the size and weight being given in both imperial and metric and the photograph showing them beside a US quarter). She received the earrings in only four days to California from Canada but she left 1's in all categories, including shipping time, shipping cost and communication! Ebay refused to change any of the DSR scores because 'the customer was entitled to her opinion'. By the way, she did get her partial refund after she told eBay that shipping them back to Canada would cost ME $50. But that's a whole other kettle of fish.

I know his comment will roll off my page and my DSR scores will be recalculated in a year. I guess sometimes it feels good to vent, and your words of advice and support are invaluable. Thank you! 🙂

momcqueen · ‎08-19-2015

@rose-dee wrote:

All of the above being said, you may have encountered a bit of a rotten apple in this particular buyer. If he/she is a competitor, there may have been some motive behind the bad DSRs. If you suspect that is the case (check the buyer's FB pages), I'd try to have the FB, the DSRs and the defect reversed. There's no guarantee, but it's certain that it won't disappear on its own -- and you'll be stuck with the defect for a year -- so it may be worth a try.

Very true. Some people will never be happy, no matter what you do. And I mean you could supply free shipping for an item that sold for 10 cents at auction with a free gift sent within an hour of payment and received within three days and it still would not be enough to satisfy someone who hates everyone and everything. Those buyers are supposed to have their feedback rendered null and void for being across-the-board-bridge-burners but ebay will never know unless you tell them.

momcqueen · ‎08-19-2015

@lovely_vintage wrote:

....Also, per your question, he does sell exactly what I sell. I notice he is VERY defensive and verbal about his own DSR's in his responses to feedback on his page.....

I am fairly certain you can appeal it on the grounds this person is a direct competitor. Explain everything to the CSR that you said here and then push it, politely but firmly. Ask to speak to their supervisor if you meet resistance. It sounds to me like direct feedback manipulation from a competitor. Particularly if you can quote from the ebay Messages sent to you. Best of luck. If you call, let us know the results for purposes of posterity.

lovely_vintage · ‎08-19-2015

I use small packet air as well and the item was in the mail within hours. That particular listing was on .ca. He was charged the $8.00CAD rate, but thought he should only have paid $2.00 because that's what he could send it for in the US.

He's got over 350 feedback as a buyer and seller, so I can't even chalk it up to him being a newbie.

Wishful thinking, but it would be great if the DSR's were scrapped, or at least not given so much weight when it comes to a seller's discounts and status.

lovely_vintage · ‎08-19-2015

Ok, I'll give them a call today and let you know what happens. Thank you! 🙂

momcqueen · ‎08-19-2015

@lovely_vintage wrote:
I use small packet air as well and the item was in the mail within hours. That particular listing was on .ca. He was charged the $8.00CAD rate, but thought he should only have paid $2.00 because that's what he could send it for in the US....

That's where I think you have grounds for appeal. He sells what you sell and now he is slamming you in ebay Message for what he could do with your item. As a competitor selling your item. The low scores are feedback manipulation by a competitor.

Although when I try to find the page about that specifically that I know I've seen a million times, I am taken to new layouts and cannot find that part of the policy anymore. Can anyone else in Community help with this?

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-19-2015

You can try to have the 1 ratings removed by contacting customer service and asking them to review the messages between you and the buyer. It might not help but it can't hurt. If you had tracking and it showed that the item was delivered within the estimated delivery guidelines then that would help with the shipping time DSR but since you don't, concentrate on the fact that the buyer is complaining about the shipping cost which is stated in the listing. It's a long shot and they will most likely say that the feedback is the buyers opinion which is allowed but it can't hurt to try.

Ask the rep to check to see if the buyer has a habit of leaving positive feedback with low dsr's...that might make a difference too.

When I started selling, the sellers location wasn't quite as obvious on the listing so I've always sent a message to buyers to give them an estimated arrival time span and also mention that a customs delay may mean that the package will take slightly longer to arrive. I still send out that message and it does help to give the buyer a head's up.

I was reading your shipping info in your listing your info about some of the info it isn't totally accurate. The listing that you had the problem with is the watch strap? You could have used light packet to send it to the US ($5) or the UK ($7.50) and used oversize lettermail to send it within Canada. Oversize lettermail is also available outside of the country but according to Canada Post regulations, you are not supposed to use it for 'merchandise' although some people do. It's really not necessary to have all of that information in your listing description because the shipping prices can be found under the shipping tab.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-19-2015

For some reason I posted before realizing that you had a number of other replies so I hope that my info doesn't just duplicate other posts. MJ does bring up a good point about mentioning that the buyer is a competitor.

It is always good to have ebay policy in front of you when talking to ebay cs to help make your point although I can't think of anything specific to show them in this situation. There used to be a feedback removal policy but that was changed to the defect removal policy. http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/defect-removal.html#guidelines

When you are looking for policy, check the U.S. site as .ca policy pages are not always updated.

lovely_vintage · ‎08-20-2015

Well, as expected, on hold for about 45 minutes, explained my situation, put on hold several more times.

End result? He gave me positive feedback and was not abusive in his public critique and he didn't swear or threaten me in his PM (that's the only criteria?), so the DSR's stand as they are his 'opinion' of the transaction. What confused me about that was the CSR's laissez faire attitude about the DSR's being 'just an opinion'. Then why do the DSR's hold so much weight when calculating defect rates (seller discounts, power seller status, etc)? If he had left a negative (in conjunction with the PM), there might be something they could do about it. Huh?

I got the impression the CSR was very new and was looking up what to say to me to get me off the phone when I was put on hold repeatedly, not actually investigating my complaint. The underlying message I gleaned from the CSR was that I should be happy because customers will still see 100% feedback. Why yes! it'll be great that customers won't see me lose my discount and status behind the scenes...um, wait a minute.......

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-20-2015

I've hear about some reps saying that about positive but they don't all have that attitude.

I was rereading your original post and you mentioned your DSR's being 4.8. I'm not sure if you realize that that number by itself doesn't really mean anything. The only thing that counts against you as far as DSR's go is a 1 for shipping time and a 1, 2 or 3 for description.
Your dashboard should give you more info.

momcqueen · ‎08-20-2015

Disappointing. I thought for sure there were grounds for removal.

I am by nature tenacious so I might call back again and ask to speak to a supervisor. A new CSR isn't going to really know much. I can sympathize with what you are saying about the inattentive CSR. I had that happen to me too once, I could practically hear the gal thinking to herself and only listening to enough of what I said to catch 'keywords' to search and parrot to me from the Help pages. I'd already read through them and knew more than she did so I was steaming by the end of the call.

katlover1952 · ‎08-21-2015

Had exactly the same comments made to me by a CSR when I tried to have low DSR removed. In my case I had correspondence from my buyer saying she had made a mistake, wasn't too good on computers was very sorry & what could she do to change it. I went up the ladder a bit too & did talk to a supervisor to no avail. That was the buyer's opinion at the time & they could not change it. Go figure.

femmefan1946 · ‎08-21-2015

The 4.8 DSRs shouldn't be a huge problem. I believe you can drop as low as 4.3 before feeling an impact. I could be wrong.

You can repair DSRs by putting some of your small items on Free Shipping. Choose inexpensive items that can go LightPacket or LetterMail.

Usually Free Shipping really means the price of the shipping is included in the price of the item.

Which is cheaper?

A $2 item with $5 shipping

A $5 item with $2 shipping**

A $7 item with Free Shipping,

In this case you are looking to get the automatic Five Stars for Free Shipping (and it only has to the free Domestic shipping) as a repair to your DSRs.

You could decide to take a smaller markup to pay the shipping. In this case you would have the $5 with Free Shipping.

In addition to the ways you can tell your customer about your shipping service, you can also add in your Feedback "Shipped Canada Post Light Packet 21/8/15 Air Mail."

Your customer* should see that, and remember about a border, when she goes to leave her feedback.

And definitely call Customer Service back.

*Not this hypocritical competitor, though.

** Nothing says the shipping charge has to be the amount of postage (and packaging) you pay for. This just reverses the asking price of the item and the cost of shipping.

pocomocomputing · ‎08-21-2015

@femmefan1946 wrote:
The 4.8 DSRs shouldn't be a huge problem. I believe you can drop as low as 4.3 before feeling an impact. I could be wrong.

You can repair DSRs by putting some of your small items on Free Shipping. Choose inexpensive items that can go LightPacket or LetterMail.
Usually Free Shipping really means the price of the shipping is included in the price of the item.
Which is cheaper?
A $2 item with $5 shipping
A $5 item with $2 shipping**
A $7 item with Free Shipping,
In this case you are looking to get the automatic Five Stars for Free Shipping (and it only has to the free Domestic shipping) as a repair to your DSRs.
You could decide to take a smaller markup to pay the shipping. In this case you would have the $5 with Free Shipping.

In addition to the ways you can tell your customer about your shipping service, you can also add in your Feedback "Shipped Canada Post Light Packet 21/8/15 Air Mail."
Your customer* should see that, and remember about a border, when she goes to leave her feedback.

And definitely call Customer Service back.

*Not this hypocritical competitor, though.
** Nothing says the shipping charge has to be the amount of postage (and packaging) you pay for. This just reverses the asking price of the item and the cost of shipping.

You only get automatic 5 stars for Free Shipping to the country that has Free Shipping. So having Free shipping for Domestic shipping and a buyer is international and pays for shipping will allow the buyer to rate DSRs for shipping cost.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-21-2015

The 4.8 DSRs shouldn't be a huge problem. I believe you can drop as low as 4.3 before feeling an impact. I could be wrong.

There is nothing in policy now that says a seller has to be above a certain DSR number. The defect system replaced the system you are referring to. I gave a bit of information about that in my other post.

rose-dee · ‎08-22-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

There is nothing in policy now that says a seller has to be above a certain DSR number. The defect system replaced the system you are referring to. I gave a bit of information about that in my other post.

While you're correct that the overall seller DSR number is no longer evaluated as it stands, unless I've missed a major change to the defect system, there are two DSRs that are included in seller evaluation. As I'm sure you know, these are "Item as Described" and "Shipping Time".

If a seller receives a 1,2, or 3 for Item as Described, or a 1-star rating for shipping time, a defect will result. So DSRs are still tied to the defect system in this sense, and are something sellers need to be concerned about.

Of course if the OP got neutral/negative FB from the buyer, she'll be getting a defect anyway.

One thing about the DSR "master number" that I believe can be important is that buyers may, at least in part, judge a seller by that overall rating. I know I look at it when I'm buying, even before I glance over the FB comments.

So although 4.8 certainly isn't a bad rating, if the OP experiences any further DSR issues in this evaluation cycle, she could find herself with a rather poor-looking average. In addition, as the buyer mouses over the individual DSRs, if any one in particular jumps out as being unusually low, the buyer may just leave.

If I were in the OP's situation, given that she has reason to believe this is a competitor, I'd do everything I could to convince eBay to remove those nasty leavings.