You must have Vero to protect copying of listing text??!!

[westernstargifts]

Please also note that if you're the original copyright owner of this
text and wish to pursue this matter further, we do have a program called
"VeRo" which you could apply to and become a member if accepted. Once a
member, you could then provide the necessary intellectual property
rights and request the removal of the listing.


Does this mean that unless you copyright all of your text in every listing and become a member of the Vero programme, if accepted, that anyone can copy your text and you can't do a da.n thing about it!

[recped]

Without knowing the context of the quote you posted I can only guess.

I presume someone is copying your listing text, presumably you have reported this to eBay and they have not taken satisfactory action.

The next step is to join the VERO programme, if you are accepted (and I don't know the qualifications) you can pretty much have ANY listing on eBay pulled. Under the VERO program eBay will pull ANY listing that you claim violates your IP rights, you have to prove NOTHING.

When you compose the text of a listing (or the images) you automatically possess the copyright you do not need to do anything at all (a copyright notice accompanying the text is useful but I'm not even sure that you need even this). Copyright is not the same as Trademark or Patent protection which does have to be registered and approved by the government authority charged with this task.

Caveats:

Like I said I don't know any of the details of how to become accepted into the Vero program.

I'm not sure if there is a Vero program in Canada or if you must follow and be governed by US laws.

If you make a claim you do open yourself up to a countersuit, the big boys with their on staff legal departments are better able to defend these suits over a small time seller.

If you make false claims it can bite you if somebody decides to challenge you.

Proving copyright is easy if you write a book and somebody copies it word for word or at least large portions are copied. Proving copyright for a small amount of commonly used text is much more difficult and if the "violator" makes even minor alterations it's next to impossible.

I'm NOT a VERO expert, I have some IP/copyright experience but not so much relating to US laws and further my experience is dated and for example totally predates the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act).

Not sure if this is any help.

[westernstargifts]

Thanks recped. It does help and I will look into it more. I can't say too much because the copier posts to this board. I will say that it is a new seller and not one of the big boys.

For sure I am not going to let it go. Obviously this person doesn't know that copying listings is grounds for losing PS status, etc.

[pstacey]

Dang Judy, nothing is ever as easy as it should be is it.
If and when you have time, check out the trust and safety board. They tend to have oodles of good ideas.

Pat

[westernstargifts]

Will do Pat.

Thanks.

[johnk_2000]

To be a Copyright Owner in Canada you MUST register your Intellectual Property with Industry Canada. You must also mark it properly if you are seeking protection.

You will not have much luck copyrighting the text as it is generic in nature and form. Each and every listing would need to be registered.

If you were able to get it registered as a "Work" which it is not you would be protected if anyone even used your "Work" as a base of their own and changed it.

That said it is not a "Work" of any nature. If you had original pictures then yes you can copyright them.

A Canadian Copyright when marked properly is protected worldwide.

As for VeRO you will need to show them that you are the Verified Copyright Owner of the product.

As was posted in another post if you have a listing removed the person you removed has the opportunity to file a Counter Notice then you need to file with the Federal Courts in California regardless if you are Canadian it is eBay policy.

That said if someone had a listing removed of mine on those grounds I would have my lawyers file a suit so quick as you really have no grounds to have listing removed because of generic text.

I hope I was of some help.

Cheers

[johnk_2000]

What Is Not Protected by Copyright?

Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:

Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded)

Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration

Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources)

Circular 1, Revised July 2006

[canadabeltbuckles]

There is an 'Item Description and Picture Theft' policy, which states...

eBay members are not allowed to use another eBay user's pictures or descriptions in their listings or About Me pages without the owner's permission.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Loss of eBay fees

Limits placed on account privileges

Loss of PowerSeller status

Account suspension

Examples

A seller doesn't know the best way to describe an item. The seller copies a substantial amount of another member’s description and pastes it into a listing.

A seller uses someone else's picture and includes it in a listing, since it looks very similar to the item the seller is offering.

A seller likes the way a competitor's About Me page looks. The seller copies the look and feel and a substantial amount of the text and creates an About Me page.

Some are misled, (as I was...), as to what exactly is a "substantial" amount of text taken from another listing? The generic description of the item? The size and weight measures? Highlighting the text in the same manner as another listing for accentuation? There are only so many ways to describe an item before duplication begins...

I am fully aware that from a marketing perspective, it is not 'what' you present, but rather 'how' you present it, that makes the sale...

The safest approach, is to become totally familiar with any and all aspects of the poduct(s) you are listing, and create a unique description drawn from your own information, not from someone else's description of a similar product. Individual perspective allows for individual interpretation of how an object should be described.

The internet is a vast resource to aid in gaining knowledge about anything in the world. Researching your product before listing it will give you a unique perspective, and will ensure you don't take the 'lazy' way out, and take someone else's description 'verbatim'...

A lesson well learned by this poster...

My apologies.

[dipmicro]

I think what JohnK is trying to say is that there may be deviation between eBay policy and the laws in Canada. Understand that eBay policies are not laws and sometimes eBay policies can be even in direct violation with laws (for example $1 minimum in the store is in violation with Canadian anti-trust legislation, but the agency watching over this legislation does not think the case is big enough for them to bother with it)

[dipmicro]

Btw. above I said is in violation ... but to my knowledge it has never been proven in court, so it should have been is likely in violation ...

[recped]

To be a Copyright Owner in Canada you MUST register your Intellectual Property with Industry Canada

Who told you this?

From the CIPO (Canadian Intellectual Property Office) website:

You do not have to register your copyright to have protection in Canada

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/copy_gd_regis-e.html#1

[westernstargifts]

When you are trying to stop the competition from grabbing your hard work. If they see which items are selling, and which ones are not, then they have an inside track as to what the market demands are...

Simple economics of course, but why allow your direct competition some insider info...

Just gives them an edge, and that's not cool...

If you were listing items on eBay just for something to do, that would be different, but we are all trying to make a profit, however small that may be...

[westernstargifts]

Above post from thread "Need answer to my question please" first posted on Mar. 27.

[johnk_2000]

Recped.......go to court without a Registered Copyright and see how far you get.

Registration is there for a reason. If you want protection you register your Works.

Cheers

[lina-mallows]

PLESE- GOTO
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wccc

"How to Secure a Copyright

Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See “Copyright Registration.”"

U.S. Copyright Office
101 Independence Avenue SE
Washington, DC 20559-6000
(202) 707-3000

That's what the US Government has to say.
I have no clue as to the Canadian rules.
Anyone out there have any thoughts?

[dipmicro]

Perhaps this would clear the mud a little:

http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/en/wr00506e.html#8

[dipmicro]

Interestingly, China is a member of all international copyright protection treaties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_treaties

Makes one wonder what is the legal enforceability of the copyright.

[dipmicro]

Not related to the topic but this one is interesting:

Not infringement:

...

* borrowing a musical tape from a friend to copy onto a blank tape for private use (a royalty payment to the owner of the song rights has been paid when the blank tape was purchased).

[recped]

Recped.......go to court without a Registered Copyright and see how far you get.

Been there, done that, registration of copyright is almost meaningless, I've been on both sides and easily won in both situations.

Perhaps you are confusing with Trademark protection which is an entirely different matter that does require official registration.

[dipmicro]

recped, if you easily won as a violator and also as a copyright owner, then what does it really mean? If you have good legal skills or good lawyer you win?

I only have one experience with trademark violation. Never been to court, because they gave me 10 days to remove the violation and after expensive advice from my lawyer I removed the offending content. However, I learned that you need to watch your lawyer, because they like to extend the case and waste your time with detailed explanations you don't really need to hear. When I told my lawyer that any further expenses (and billable phone calls etc) on the case has to be preapproved by me, the case closed 🙂

Lawyer ... I dislike them even more than real estate agents.