my buyer claimed he got an empty box after picking up the parcel

[benbe.c]

Being an eBay buyer, I had some unhappy experience, but being an eBay seller, my experience was even worst. I persist to sell some good quality products, so the prime cost of products is high. In a year, the first transaction couldn’t cover the prime cost; other two weren’t paid; and the last one really making me frustrated.

This buyer was from Ontario and he paid very soon. Me and my selling partner were excited and sent the product by express delivery right away. One day, I checked the tracking number and saw the message showing that THE BUYER has picked up the parcel. I sent a message to him asking how this product was like. But his reply surprised me. He opened a case, requested a refund and wrote only one sentence in the message “I got an empty box I was disappointed” I asked some details about what happen to the parcel, his explanation confused me.

He explained: “I went to the post office to pick up my package, the lady in the post office said she didn't receive it back yet. So I went again later in the evening and I signed and picked up the package. It was light and I asked her "what's in it?” She said "I don't know". I didn't have the time to read the label and I assumed it was for my daughter because she ordered something too. Unfortunately, I didn't open the package until the morning. When I opened it, all I found was an empty box. I didn't know what to do…” and, this buyer invited me to call him for discussing the trouble.

After that, Me and my selling partner wre busy at finding out the truth. My partners showed me all the receipts which she got from the express company’s computer system, and emphasized that the parcel was 2.19 kgs (conformed and scanned by the express company),if the buyer found ‘it was light,’ he should take a little time to check it in the post office right away. If something wrong with the item just sent it back and he wouldn’t be charge for the shipping.

I spent time to solve the trouble. I called the Canada post, and they gave me the same answer as my partner gave: buyer should check the parcel at the post office before signed and brought it home. And, this buyer was an experience ebay buyer ,he should know what to do with online shopping.So that I decided to call eBay customer service, told them I wouldn’t make a refund for this buyer. They promised me putting the case on hold until the buyer giving some convincing information about the case.

For now, we’re still waiting for eBay’s decision. I thought that eBay’s policy protecting buyers more than sellers; buyers usually are winners in most cases. If eBay force me to refund the buyer, I have no more confidence to eBay.

Did anybody have same such terrible experience? What I did was correct ?

[dmil8030 · Accepted solution]

Hello 'benbe', 

<< the tracking number . . . showing that THE BUYER has picked up the parcel.>>

I wonder what would have happened if you had simply left it at that and not badgered the buyer to provide you with a review of the product you are selling.  

<< his reply surprised me. He opened a case, requested a refund and wrote only one sentence in the message “I got an empty box I was disappointed”>>

Of course he did not get an empty box.  He is scamming you.  Someone who is truly aggrieved would be furious, not merely "disappointed".  

Moreover, no one is going to ask a post office clerk  "What's in it?" because everyone knows a postal clerk cannot possibly have a clue.  Wow, this guy is some storyteller.   After all, if he was so desperately curious about the contents it is not likely he would have waited until the following day to open the parcel and find out for himself.  

Did he ask his daughter if she opened it and removed the item?  Assuming there even is a daughter, although everything else he has said so far suggests this just plain attempted theft and not at all a 'mistake'.  

<<  ... receipts ... from the express company . . .the parcel was 2.19 kgs . . .>>

This was sent through Canada Post, is that right?  It was not sent through a courier?

When you are dealing with the various entities regarding the case, -- just say "I".  The constant referral to your partner(s) makes you appear incapable of conducting business on your own.  Further, it will make no difference to any procedure except to give others the impression they ought to be talking to the partner who seems to be the more competent one.  

<< Canada post, ... : buyer should check the parcel at the post office before signed and brought it home.>>

That is really only possible in theory.  There isn't a good place to open parcels on postal outlet counters, sometimes a parcel "feels" a bit light but all the items are there, and then there's the mess, -- picture yourself opening every parcel on a cramped corner of a busy postal outlet.

Instead, the explanation is here:

<< this buyer was an experience ebay buyer ,>>

Of course he knows "what to do with online shopping", -- and he quickly realized you would be easy to scam, by both the low feedback score and your approval-seeking message asking for a product review.  

I assure you, if there is a problem with an item, a buyer will let you know.  

<< eBay customer service, ... putting the case on hold until the buyer giving some convincing information about the case.>>

What kind of case did he open?  If it was "Item not received"  you simply need to enter the tracking number which proves delivery and that should put an end to it.  

The experienced buyer will open "Item not as described", -- but should be willing to offer some evidence in support of his assertions.  You are not the first seller to hear the "empty box" scam.  

<<What I did was correct ? >>

Yes, all except for petitioning praise from the buyer about the item he bought, you did everything right.  

What I would suggest you do now is file a claim through the Post Office against this person for mail fraud.  You need a case number you can give to ebay.

Then file a complaint with the RCMP for internet fraud, because again you will want a case number.

People who actually do send empty boxes (yes, there are those on both sides of the fence) would never go that far.  Most importantly is that you will alert others that he is a scammer.  

I do not recommend contacting the buyer by phone, -- you have spent enough money already.  Also, any contact you have with him needs to be documented through ebay messages.  If he wants phone chat it is only because he does not want a permanent record of the conversation anywhere.  

When you have your Postal Fraud number and your Police Report number, be sure to give these to ebay right away.  

If you have not already done so, use the Report a buyer link from your Sold items.  Report him for Abusing the ebay "Money back guarantee'.  

Ebay cannot know about someone committing fraud if no one tells them.  If you and however many partners you may have take action and file the appropriate paperwork the case will go in your favour and the buyer will have his name registered with both the Post Office and the RCMP.  

Whining that ebay 'only protects buyers' never helps.  You're just making yourself into a victim.  For every person who says that, there are at least as many who insist that ebay only protects sellers.  When you have a problem, you need to take action.  

Get tough, get those report numbers, and above all  add this crook to your list of blocked bidders on every ID you may have:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/manage_bidders_ov.html#block

Best of luck 

[benbe.c]

Hello “dmil8030”
Thank you very very much for your help!!! I really appreciate that you have taught me a lot! Your suugestions were very useful for me.I’m pretty new at online selling and I don’t spend much time on learning how to do it.
Here I answer your questions one by one:
 I’ve aksed the buyer if his daughter opened the parcel before him, he said he was’extremely offened’ about I said something like that.
 This parcel was sent through EMS( the best express in China.),but I could check it through Canada Post. My selling partner,my cousin, who did send the parcel to the buyer. That was why I said ‘we’ in the case. on my listing, the item of the location I posted was Vancouver,but it was in China.I’ve left a message about that the items might send out from the Region of Manufacture(China) for providing the best price. Will this be a problem?
 The reason of this buyer asked for refund was missing parts or pieces. He Claimed he got an empty box and only one cable left inside. He was very smart ( an experienced scammer?), but he was hard to explain why he didn’t check the “light-weight’parcel.
My question is :
Do you think that it would be powerful evidence in some cases if buyers or sellers make a complete vedio for opening or packing an item ?
You don’t think that opening a parcel in the post office is poper way, how a buyer provides evidence if he/she really got an empty box. Just like my buyer, if the item was light-weight (was not2.19kgs , I was difficult to appear the case.

I’ll follow your suggestion, take action against this guy. If I got the money back ,I ‘ll donate it all .
Thank you so much again!
You have great day!

[dmil8030 · Accepted solution]

Hello again, 'benbe',  

<< I’ve aksed the buyer if his daughter opened the parcel ... he was’extremely offened’ >>

Haha, don't worry about him being offended.  And if he actually does have a daughter, he should know by now that kids do all sorts of things without thinking and without consulting their parents.  It was a reasonable question.  

<< parcel was sent through EMS (...China)....  My selling partner... did send the parcel to the buyer.>>

So even though the listing said the item was in Vancouver and the buyer was in Ontario, the item was actually mailed from China, is that right?

That is an important piece of information to have left out.

<< on my listing, the item of the location I posted was Vancouver, but it was in China.>>

You need to change that in your listings right away.  It is a violation of ebay policy to misrepresent the item location in a listing.  The item location must be  where the item actually is, -- the item's true location.

So you are drop-shipping, is that it?  You say your cousin was the one who mailed the item.  Did he actually have it in his hands, pack it up, print off a label to the Ontario buyer, and mail it himself?

Can you truly be 100% sure?

<< I’ve left a message about that the items might send out from ... (China).... Will this be a problem?>>

Yes!  You are not allowed to say the item is in Vancouver when it is really in China or anywhere else.  

What if another Canadian thinks she is buying from Vancouver, and then has to pay import charges because the item came from outside the country?  That buyer will be furious.  

And therefore you must change this: 

"To minimize or avoid any GST or V.A.T. or other Import Taxes legally, I will mark the parcel as ‘Other’ or ‘Gift’ within low value."

I know you mean well and you want to be kind and helpful, but not only is that against ebay policy but it is a federal offence to lie on a Customs form.  Don't ever do it.  It is up to buyers to know the import charges of their own country, and if they cannot pay them they ought not to buy.  Have a look at the following link, - it tells you what you should say:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/pay/customs.html#who

<<Do you think that it would be powerful evidence in some cases if buyers or sellers make a complete vedio for opening or packing an item ?>>

A video of a person opening a parcel is not regarded as compelling evidence, simply because it can be faked.  If someone files a police report, this is taken seriously by ebay because no one would be so brazen as to endeavour to fake one of those.  And of course, it can be verified.  

<<You don’t think that opening a parcel in the post office is poper way, how a buyer provides evidence if he/she really got an empty box.>>

It's not that opening a parcel in the post office is not proper, it is just not really possible, -- or certainly not easy and convenient.  There is no space to do it, the clerks and other customers are easily annoyed, and the contents may be private, even if it is something ordinary like a wall clock.  And if the item is packed in those styrofoam chips, they make such a mess.  Unfortunately it just isn't really feasible and so most people just take their parcels home.  

Proving that a person did or did not receive an empty box is difficult, although a seller may have a record of handing over and paying for a parcel of a certain weight.  Usually the best way to win a claim is through the postal and police reports.  Guilty people do not run to police.  

For right now, however, go to your listings and fix those errors before you have even more problems.  And see the following link about Item Location, and note the first example of what is not allowed:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/item-location.html#policy

[benbe.c]

Hello “dmil8030”

Thank you soooo much for you help again! Thank you for your time!
I felt a little upset today because ebay costomer support has made a final decision: the case has been decided in the buyer’s favor.
Why I presented the incorrect item location,?,I have been thinking about this for long time,but when I checked about some ebay sellers, whom I bought something from,part of them mispresented the item location too, llike: item was sent from different city in the same country; or items presented in Qubec but sent from New York.
I know I should have the item in my location, but the shipment is very expensive.I know I should learn more about ebay policy before listing . Now I know the policy you sent to me, that was I couldn’t find before..

Yes!I’m sure that my cousin did all those things on his own: he actually had it in his hands, packed it up, mailed it by himself.The label was printed in the express company, The item was checked and scanned by machinery. If my cousin lied to me,how could the machinery lie? EMS is big express company just like Fedex or UPS.
I can report this to the police, but, the sender wasn’t me, and the incorrect item location, it has been against eBay policy, will the police handle my case?

[dmil8030]

Hi 'benbe', 

<< the case has been decided in the buyer’s favor.>>

Under the circumstances that is not entirely surprising, yet it may be possible to have the decision reversed, - but only if you take action.

Have you filed a complaint with the Post Office against this buyer for mail fraud?

Have you notified the RCMP that this buyer has committed internet fraud?

No one will come to you.  If you are the injured party you must claim what is rightfully yours.  If you want ebay to reverse the decision, give them a reason.  

And I notice you have not changed your listings.  It is a bit rich to be accusing others of doing something illegal when you are willing to commit customs fraud.  Get that phrase out of your listings and do it now.  

At the same time, change the item location to China.  If you don't, you could find yourself booted off  ebay.  

Do it now.  

<<when I checked about some ebay sellers, whom I bought something from,part of them mispresented the item location too>>

Oh I see, haha, now how does that saying go, . . .   If other sellers jumped off a bridge would you

do the same? 

The alternative is to have your cousin mail you the items you have in your listings, and from there you can inspect them, ensure they are all in good working order, and mail them from your BC home to your buyers.  

I have no doubt that the buyer scammed you, no doubt at all.  I think when he saw the item came from China, and your message of inquiry indicated you really had no idea of the product or its arrival, - he saw an opportunity to get it for free.  And unfortunately ebay makes freebies easy and fun.  But it is still theft and still against the laws of every country on the planet. 

I do not know where your buyer lives, but you could always call his local precinct and report him that way.  It would do him a world of good to have police knock on his door regarding this.  

Again, you will get a report number when you do this which you can enter when you click on the link to file to Appeal your ebay case.  

And speaking of reports, under the More actions drop-down menu from your Sold Items, use the Report a buyer link to report him for Abusing ebay's Money Back Guarantee.   If you have post office and police report numbers, you can enter them to bolster your assertions.  

Once you've got your fraud report numbers, you can call ebay and ask to speak to someone who specializes in Appeals.  Stick to the facts, and give the telephone attendant the P.O. and RCMP (or local police) report numbers.  

At this point you have nothing more to lose but your time, so give it all you've got.

Best of luck. 

[reallynicestamps]

I sent a message to him asking how this product was like.

This is never a good idea. If there is a problem, the buyer will let you know.

More to the point, you have not Revised your two current listings to show the actual location of the items.

The duty and sales tax on importing a $300 item is substantial.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/menu-eng.html

Revisions are free and take only seconds.

Meanwhile your loss is not as high as you think.

Add together the actual cost to you and your cousin of purchasing the item plus the cost of packing a shipping the item plus your eBay fees including listing and selling fees plus your Paypal fee on the payment.

Your profit is not a loss since it never happened.

If your buyer is asking for a refund, ask him to report the loss to Canada Post (at a post office not a postal outlet) and to the local police. Tell him this is so you can make your insurance claim, which you should pursue.

As dmil says, scammers won't do this, and the equipment may suddenly appear.

However, angry buyers may not be interested in helping you out either, so this is not a proof.

[aubreyclay56]

Yess there are many bad customers out there it is very unfortunate,im sure there are many bad sellers as well,but the bottom line is bad buyers can do a lot of harm to a seller, like opening cases for no delivery,when they tried getting the item free being it had no tracking ,that is about the worst ive encountered,give some an awesome deal on shipping and they get to keep the item plus get there money back,thats nasty,but life goes on ,i had one customer ask if i had tracking after she opened a case wheateh i had tracking was a imeadiate red flag oh well that sort of thing will happen, but ive sent things all over the world with awesome results,great fb honest buyer dont matter if u area buyer or a seller there is always bad ones