eBay

cohmtech · ‎12-17-2018

We all have made purchases on Ebay. We all consider Ebay somewhat safe. But what happens when you have a first time experience with a Seller that knows how to manipulate the system. You will find many unfortunate transactions that sellers must protect themselves and that is why Ebay will lean towards the seller in disputes, rather than you the buyer. So add this first time experience to protect yourself from conditions that Ebay is not there to protect you as a buyer. The number ratio of seller misfortunes outweighs buyers. Here is my misfortune after over 20 years of making purchases. It only takes one seller to re-consider how safe are you; I made a purchese same as the hundreds of other purchases. Opening process confirmed shipment coming. Did you know that all shipping for Ebay goes thru Pitney Bowes for Canada. Same concept for U.S. What happens when a seller sends you the wrong item. You are informed to return the item before seller sends the right item. Did you know that the seller must provide you with a pre-paid return ticket with the shipper of choice. In my case the seller simply replied to return the item and they would ship the right item. No pre-paid ticket, no return address other than the address on the box - Pitney Bowes Missisauga Ontario. Your going thru a first time experience because most sellers or it is rare that good sellers would give you that condition. Your following the sellers request not knowing the rules that sellers must comply with Ebay. You use the mailing address of the wrong item box and return the item to that address on the box. Wrong. When a wrong item is sent to you, you have to go emmidiately go to Ebay Dispute Centre to ensure that the selller is honest or in my case knowingly knows how to work the system. You have 30 Days to get it straighten out or you will fall in the distrust population of buyers on Ebay. I used the address on the box - Pitney Bowes - Missisauga. Reason: The seller did not provide a return address other than giving me their condition to return the item before shipping the right item. I took a picture of the shipping number on the box and the transaction number from Canada Post. I waited patiently for three weeks. No response by the seller. I sent numberous emails. No response. Final solution, I had no choice but to call Ebay and open a claim. Suddenly the seller wakes up and emails are being sent to me. The seller also informed me that I am too late. I am pass the 30 day window and presented the same conditions thru Ebay Dispute, to return the item first. You have proven the wrong item was shipped to the address on the box. Proof of sending was presented to Ebay however Ebay must make the choice of the imcomputence of this Seller or the unexperienced buyer being the first time going thru this nightmare. The sellers laziness to doing things right for the buyer of sending a pre-paid shipping ticket did not happen. Did not include a return address other than what was on the box and knows about the time period allowed has elapsed. You think your an honest buyer and you have done everything right. Wrong. The seller still holds the cards of not receiving the item. If fact the seller and Ebay knows that their mailing centre will not send the item back to the seller because whoever receives the item, that's were it ends. The seller knows this and their manipulation of the system and imcoputence is going to cost you lots of money because you don't have the shipping trail back to the seller. It ended at the mailing centre. How the hell are you going to prove your honest. You returned the wrong item, plus you are now positioned to lose your money. In my case, my loss is over $300 plus return shipping cost $28 plus the seller even charged me for shipping cost of the wrong item to my purchase. Can it get any worse? Remember buyers have very little support by Ebay to defend your honesty. They even know the return because who as a buyer would know the mailing process of EBay being Pitney Bowes. It doesn't matter, your on the dark side of Ebay. Your a buyer and they put you in the same group of the horrible nightmares that sellers go thru with buyers, even though you honestly complied to the the sellers condition. You have show every possible rebutle of proof and then get informed by Ebay they are on the sellers side.

Protect Yourself: You are in the possibility of loosing your money. Never agree to sellers telling you to send back at your cost. Demand a pre-paid shipping ticket and most of all, have an address when sending the item back you can trace right back to the seller. If you lose, it becomes a double bonus for the seller. Do the math now. You lose your money $300 in my case plus shipping and handling. Seller send a $25 item that can't be found. Ebay protects the seller. Seller then re-sells your item you purchased $300 not including all the shipping cost added to the second purchaser. Seller doubles her money. In fact during the whole nightmare, the seller was so confident Ebay would protect her, she even put the item I purchased back on EBay before I put a claim into Ebay, knowing that all this confussion by her I was have pass the EBAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE period and time to dispute.

Reccomedation: You have to protect yourself. As soon as a wrong item is sent to you whether the seller notifies you of this mistake, start right away and file a claim with Ebay. Have them monitor the sellers all the way thru your purchase. Know the clock time! Ebay maximum time for Ebay Guarantee - maximum allowance to a dispute. Get Ebay to ensure you get every dime you spent for your nightmare. Also contact Paypal dispute center and at the same time, open a claim with them for your money. All the players are in sync now and your covering all assurances that your seller is not in the control seat. When you buy an item and it is not right, when you open a claim, you will be emailing the seller but you have some hopeful support by Ebay and Paypal to protect you. Don't be foolish and think Ebay will protect you. Your in the negative side of being a buyer. Sellers has a great deal more protection from you than the buyer and the final synopsis is Ebay giving you a long winded caution what you should have known. Closes the file and the seller wins and your out of a hell of lot of money and you can't even minimize the pain because you don't even have the return item you sent to the wrong place. There are viscious sellers that know how to manipulate the system. Especially with expensive items that they can keep and re-sell if your not on top of game. My nightmare lasted for over 90 days.

qinch_59 · ‎12-17-2018

Yes and it is what I heard from the third and last call with customer service. NEVER PAY FOR SHIPPING to return an item not as described. And ALWAYS OPEN A CASE for any seller who tells you to do so. Period.

momcqueen · ‎12-17-2018

Did you open a Return case? The details of the case specifically give a Return address. If the transaction was international, this would be all the more important. Was the parcel returned to you as undeliverable?

Always open a claim, always follow the instructions provided exactly. eBay cannot help you if you don’t.

reallynicestamps · ‎12-17-2018

I made a purchese
confirmed shipment coming.
Guess you got a tracking number?
all shipping for Ebay goes thru Pitney Bowes for Canada.
Only if the seller is using the Global Shipping Program which is a Seller Protection taking the form of a freight forwarder run by Pitney Bowes.

Missing information, but again at a guess, your item was Not As Described and you opened a Dispute.

No.

You were dealing directly with the Seller?

All you want from the seller is a return shipping label and/or a refund.

You are informed to return the item before seller sends the right item.
No.
You are required to return the item, but as a Best Practice as a buyer NEVER agree to a replacement.
You are allowed to accept a replacement, but there is no guarantee it will arrive before the Dispute closes or that it will be any better than the original.
Did you know that the seller must provide you with a pre-paid return ticket with the shipper of choice?
The seller is required to send return shipping. This is usually a return shipping label, but internationally can be money sent using Paypal’s Send Money service.

To complicate matters, if you want to return because of Buyer Remorse (you just don't like it or you decide you can't afford it) you are required to pay for return shipping, not the seller.

NOW
Remember the Global Shipping Program being a Seller Protection?
Part of that protection is that most of the seller’s responsibility ends at the PB/GSP plant in Kentucky.
Did you ask the seller for his postal address?
Did he refuse to give it to you?
That refusal should have lost him the entire Claim.
BTW- the seller’s email for his PP account should be on the invoice you paid. Under Contact Information. You may also see his postal address.

I've given up on that wall of text.

You are also covered by Paypal for 180 days from Payment. (EBay gives 30 days from delivery and, yes, the sketchey seller strung you along past that date.)

The Paypal Resolution Centre is at the top of your PP account page under Tools.

Skip the suggestion that youContact the Seller, we know how that will go.

Escalate to a Claim. Be sure to give Paypal the tracking number for the return shipment to PB Mississauga.

If they accept that you have returned the item, you will be refunded.

PP never refunds the return shipping.

But they give you 180 days.

If that doesn't work out, and you are sensible enough to back your PP account with a credit card, you can phone the 1-800 number on the back of the card and ask about a chargeback. Card policies differ.

pjcdn2005 · ‎12-18-2018

I’m sorry that you have been going through this. You seem to believe that the seller intentionally misled you and that’s possible however, I think that it is unlikely that the seller knew that the package no longer had their return address on it. When they sent it to the global shipping center, it would have the sellers return address but when the package was forwarded, that return address was covered and a new one was put on. Since the seller never receives packages sent through global shipping, they would have no idea what the package has on it when it is received in Canada and they probably assumed that their return address was still showing on the package. Of course if they would have sent the correct item to you, none of this would have happened.

It really sounds like the seller has no idea how the system works and therefore didn’t guide you through the process. I have to blame ebay in a way because I don’t think they give enough information to sellers or buyers on how to handle problems when the gsp has been used. Although it may not seem like it, eBay almost always rules on the buyers side for returns as long as there is proof that the seller received the item back. Unfortunately, in this situation they didn’t receive the item back and you’ve been the one to lose out.

The eBay rep that checks the boards may be able to look into this for you. I’m not sure if he will be able to help but I will call him to this thread so that he is aware of the problem.

tyler@ebay

momcqueen · ‎12-18-2018

Thank you, pj. I came back to the thread to do that this morning from my desktop since the mobile version of the site doesn't allow for tagging as far as I can find.

cohmtech · ‎12-18-2018

Thank You for sharing your experience. It only takes one seller to put you in high alert from all the experiences of buying on Ebay. Your a buyer and all the odds of Ebay being there to protect you is not the confidence you should take. It's your money and can easily be lost. Ebay call centre will be polite and give you hope of the resolve. That confidence is greatly distorted. Out of the time period with a seller that patiently delays rectifying, holds all the cards. You can't even write a review from your horrible experience once your all alone in the dead zone.

cohmtech · ‎12-18-2018

When you finally come to the reality of no response to you multiple emails to this type of seller, that horrible gut feeling was now a reality. I was dealing with someone that knows the system. They send a very inexpensive item. Could even be a barbie doll compared to the $300 purchase. I did open a return case. Yes it finally provided the return address of this seller however you now have a deadline to meet to meet the conditions. In my case I had weeks to resolve. The wrong item parcel was not return by EBay's mailing centre. Proof of delivery means nothing if you send a return item to an address on the box. A disonest sellers knows that when the email comes in that they sent the wrong item. When a buyer is going thru a first time experience of a dishonest seller, there is no way you would know what is coming. Any new purchases, I now create an active file and archive all the information from the start of the purchase, to the finish. I now check cautiously check reviews before buying to look for the negative flags. No matter what they are selling could be hook to bring you thru a highway of hell. Decide if you feel safe to buy and keep on the follow thru till the item arrives. Your are correct. Immediately open a claim. Yourow dealing with a dishonest or incomputent seller. Who cares how the seller feels. It's your money and your fighting the Eby buyer odds of losing. I now realize on Ebay, buyers are treated as the problem, not the seller.

cohmtech · ‎12-18-2018

Thanks for sharing helpful information. In 20 years of hundreds of puchases and also being a seller, all the precautions and the do's now become a reality of knowing the Ebay system. Paypal is also the back up using your credit card on PayPal to purchase. First time experience's that don't go right, you graduate to the caution level of buying. Now I know that these type of sellers are out there. All the Ebay and Paypal solutions is there to protect you but with the dispute time. Your not ready beacuse you never had this type of nightmare seller on Ebay. You learn fast your alone when you lose everything. A buyer is in denial of truth when the conditions are against you. I didn't know about the 180 day period with PayPal. I did open a claim with Paypal at the same time. The same condition of returning the item and time to respond is given. Same as Ebay. Nobody is ready for a seller that knows how to play the system. Send a wrong item with no value and gain to re-sell your purchased item again. Your are correct that the return address directly to the buyer is your tracking. Not getting an email from the buyer simply saying do not accept shipment or send it back. The box address is Ebay's shipping hub. Not the buyers. Emailing this untrusting seller is not the approach to take. Your feeding what is eventual and not get the result. The unfortunate is not lossing your money, not the item and I have learnt that Ebay has no intention of protecting you once your out of the time zone. It goes to the seller. You buy an item. The seller sends the wrong item, much less in cost compared to what you purchased. Emails you to send back to get your item. Does not give you a proper return address. Your unfortunate situation is inexperience of this type of seller. Its the same concept of fishing. The seller does not provide the proper return information. They wait to see if your following the lead. You return the item using the mailing address on the same box. It's Ebay shipping hub. The seller knows it will not be delivered to them. It stops at the hub. The hub doesn't return the item to you and accepts. Your open a dispute both with Ebay and Paypal. The seller wakes up and responds but the ace now is you have exhausted all the emails trying to get the seller to respond. No response. You are then way over the time slot. Ebay then wants you to send dialogue to the seller. Seller doesn't care of you begging to get your money back and Ebay will back up this seller and inform you the file is closed. All the helpful information you have posted should be read by everyone. Buyers should know of not being so trustful to the Ebay community of sellers and buyers. When you lose your case, it becomes a wake up call that Ebay is not a site of confidence of buying. They will provide all the support between buyer and seller. By throwing this out to everyone, all I can say is your money is gone to the seller. If your experience is not going the same as the hundreds of purchases you made in many years of purchses, start the fight to get your money back first then go and find another seller who is honest. This dishonest seller is a better fisherman than you

cohmtech · ‎12-18-2018

Thank you for responding. I share all the right things that a seller must provide to a buyer. When you dealing with a incompetent seller that sends a wrong item, does not have any information on the shipping box with a return address, simply takes the approach of return the wrong item and only the shipping information being the distribution centre address of Pitney Bowes in Canada is your only source of where to ship, not covered until you are forced to handle the return shipping yourself. No return voucher, ticket or contact number of the shipper of choice, your following the instructions by this poorly organied seller. In this scenario, the seller is not new to EBay. They have sold over 160 items. They have only 1 other buyer requiring Ebay to intervene from the same wrong item sent. Very pleased to see the buyer took action right away and got their money back. My posting is to make it very aware of what buyers should do on Ebay. A bad experience should be shared. This seller was emailed when the item was returned. It also included pictures of the same box, the weigh bill number on the box, the receipts of the payment I had to borne to send the wrong item back. The numerous emails after returning was performed. No contact whatsover by the seller. You have confidence of Ebay's system. You wait and have no choice of going thru the claim process. First time being introduced to this type of seller. You then find out all the conditions you have now. The seller responds once Ebay takes action. They also inform you that your pass the response period. In adddition the seller even calls you dishonest to add to the frustration. Ebay goes in favor of the seller because the only address given by the seller was Ebay's mailing centre in Canada. Nothing in this purchase was done right by the seller. The seller put all the responsibility to the buyer. The return item value is minimul to the $300 purchase of the right item. No return address, sellers site shows item shipped being the wrong item confirmation. Right item is being held. During the process of resolution, the seller re submits the same item you purchased with the same serial numbers and when questioning to the seller, same no response. You then see a Pitney Bowes shipping payment of over $30 which you then have to audit the trail of how the seller processed the mistake. Your now over 90 days trying desperately to get this seller to work with a resolution. They know you sent the item back. They know you used the return address being Pitney Bowes because nothing else was in the box, labelled on the box. The seller holds all the cards. Simply placing there rebuttle of sending the item back is now impossible. The address you use is going nowhere. Pitney Bowes has accepted the item and not returned. You are in a loss of over $400 now with all the shipping conditions given by the seller. No prepaid return tickets provided. No contact by the selling until Ebay and PayPal intervenes with the eventual total loss of your money with Ebay closing the report in the sellers favour. I should say in 20 years of buying, also having one of my companies being a platnum seller of very expensive of vintage items, this seller should not be part of the Ebay community. The seller has done this before however I don't know the journey that the buyer had gone thru but Ebay resolved and the buyers money was returned. If you read the postings of what sellers go thru with distrusting sellers and the loss of income to the seller, then search for post of buyers horrible experiences, they are far fewer than sellers nightmares. Of course Ebay will lean towards the seller. No matter how much you have proven yourself of returning. You have provided images of the return box, receipts of the cost sending priority mail. Ebay knows the buyer sent it to their hub and the seller definetely knows because they didn't follow thru the normal process of returning the item with nothing but the hubs address on the box. To continue the exhaustive fight, the buyer's mistake now has to find the contact number of Pitney Bowes, find someone that handles receiving, if succesful have the wrong item sent back to the buyer and then use the address given from Ebays claim file opened to the seller. Surprisingly at this point, the seller provides the proper return address but you only have a minimal amount of time before Ebay closes the file. Even if Pitey Bowes sends back the item to the buyer using all the tracking information, this incompent seller still holds the cards. They don't accept the wrong item going into the 120 day period of resolve. You know own a $25 old remote control for the $400 you spent working with a seller that knows the system and how to manipulate it to her advantage.

tyler@ebay · ‎12-18-2018

Thanks for the tag @pjcdn2005!

Hi @cohmtech - this is definitely an unusual situation that does not occur frequently, and it appears there was miscommunication and misunderstandings on both sides. Without going into account specific detail I'd like to clear up a few things:

Not all items sold by members go through the Global Shipping Program - you can view the shipping methods (Global Shipping items will state 'All fees paid, international priority shipment, etc). You can always contact a seller and request they ship directly to you. In my experience for Canadian members that almost always saves everyone money.

If a member requests the item be 'refused' or 'returned' to them, they need to provide the means to do so, and get you the address information involved. Failure to do so can void protections.

The Global Shipping Program should be proactive about contacting the seller involved if an item was returned to their center (even if they weren't expecting it). It sounds like that didn't happen.

In the unlikely event that something like this happened to you in the future, I'd recommend waiting until you receive the item and then opening a formal return for a 'received wrong item' reason. This will not only notify us that there was an issue with the transaction, it will provide the format for the seller involved to get you their proper return info, and also educate them that they need to provide the means to get the item back (either by issuing a prepaid return label or sending you funds to do so).

With regards to this particular transaction, I have looked into it and recommend you check your eBay messages for more information. Thanks for your time, and I'm sorry that this was such a frustrating experience. I hope you have a happy holiday!

Tyler,

cohmtech · ‎12-18-2018

Thanks Tyler for sharing your information. This is a rare case since I have purchased thousands of dollars with Ebay. My reviews by all the sellers I have purchasd shows my alertness to sending the funds emmediately and have the confidence that all my purchases with my sellers. This one without a doubt knows the system. My delima is that I run 4 corporations and at the retirement stage therefore not being active in the administration process which includes personal shipments and mail. This seller did not immediately inform me that a wrong item was shipped and to not accept shipment. At that point, the wrong item was received by our office. During that time, my step son's father was in his final stage of life from brain cancer and immediate attention by the family took me out of the urgency to send back this item. In between this time, this seller was minimal to respond leaving the responsibility to my office which eventually became my responsibility to personnaly go direct to a Canada Post mailing centre. There was no return address on the box other than Pitney Bowes Mississaga . There was no email by this seller of the return shipping address. Only the condition return and she would ship the purchase. I did provide her with all the return information - weigh bill - transaction number and personal cost to comply. The extreme disapointment on Ebay's part was knowing that I presented the proof ans signing requirement by the receiver. If Pitney Bowes does not accept returns, that did not happen therefore givng me the assumption that I complied to the conditions. This inadequate seller did not suppot any information before or back to me even given her the images of the box shipped, the postal receipts and transaction number. I was left on my own to defend myself. After over a month and 1/2 waiting for the normal protocol of the numerous sellers I have worked with, this one did not respond to anything. Not even mentioning anything about the wrong location of shipment. To this day, now into the 4th month, she has never mentioned about the return, attempt to look into the confirmation of the item shipped based on the tracking information. She clearly knew her position now exceeding the resolution time. In addtion after Ebay and Paypal opening the claim, nothing was mentioned about about her incomputance of how the ite was shipped and demand to personally pay the cost and handling. She had all the power to not return payment. She doesnt care about a small $25 remote control when the winfall of the $300 CDN exceeds the loss. An the advantage that she can re-sell the itme I purchased with Ebay closing the file. She even re-submitted the same controller back on Ebay prior to the resolution process. I questioned her thru an email with o response. Why would she put the effort to resolve with a win factor that brings her into $600 with Ebay legal support to go with the seller versus the buyer. She is legally safe and unfortunetly with one already in her system with Ebay resolving wrong shipped item and money returned, she just has to wait for period of time for another winfall. Since I am talking to an inhouse Ebay representative, do you have a contact number at Pitney Bowes Mississauge to find out more details since the parcel was not returned. My inexerience with sellers that can play the system for the winfall gain at least I can try to get the item returned to my given address and then challenge this seller of honouring the condition. This has now become an issue of honesty. Even accepting her response of me being dishonest with something she created of me not caring as her response back to the returned item. That is not true and I never emailed her of saying that. Whatever she gave me as a rebutle to using the final wording of dishonest took this purchase too far. Ebay has been solid for me for the many years of puchases for all my companies. Always got 5 star reviewss from sellers and it only takes one of these type of sellers force me as CEO to send a notice to all my companies of not allowing anymore purchases thru Ebay without my personal written consent. To cancel any purchases using PayPal processing without consent. I value my integrity and the integrity of all the sellers we have made purchases. You have reached out properly, presented the important necessities when a buyer must go thru the experience of an incomputent seller but when I have over 20 years of perfection with Ebay, would I expect that there is a gremlin in the system that we all value honesty. I am positive she knows the system, how to manipulate it knowing to make the purchase exceed the protection zone with multiple emails to her without responding. I have to borne the loss because of a shipping box with only the Pitney Bowes label showing. No other information. I will protect my companies now and direct purchases even though higher in cost to Amazon and direct purchases directly to re-sellers. When it is a necessity to make a purchase on Ebay, each of my offices must have approval, create a floating docket of all the information of the product of purchase and tracking information during the shipping process. Unfortunately the decision by your Phillipine call centre of my loss has disolved any confidence I have valued for som many years with the Ebay system. As you know going thru the maze is hard enough to then be told of all this effort was a total loss. I now have to borne the fact of being taken advantage and basically got taken by a very modest seller. In any other arena, we simply pass this to legal to handle.

qinch_59 · ‎12-18-2018

I am sorry for your loss, but here are some better news: You can punish the seller.

In a similar scenario where the seller scammed return shipping cost from me, I opened two cases. One is the claim case when he failed to pay back my item value within 3 days. That's defect #1. The other is a fraud case I opened under violation of policy. The good news is that customer support can see the communication messages between you two, whether he ignored your emails, delayed response, or misled you. He will either get a defect #2 or at least be involved in an investigation.

In any case, we should not tolerate such behaviour. Even if you cannot recover the loss, you can still punish the person. And I'm not even talking about social engineering.

cohmtech · ‎12-20-2018

Thank you for understanding the paralyse. It's not something anyone should go thru. After hundreds of purchases and impeccable performance by the sellers for so many years, it only takes "one" to take that confidence away. How a seller can ship a wrong item, not include any returning mail address on the shipping box or any other information other than an outside lable of who shipped the item was my only resources I could use to return which without any knowledge was Ebay distribution centre. Emailing the seller and providing tracking number and address of return, it was Ebays resolution centre that informed me that the return address being Pitney Bowes in Mississauga. My email to the seller and sending pictures of the return box, tracking, there was no response back for over 30 days. By opening a claim the seller had not choice to respond. I only learned of her real address by PalyPal when I also opened a claim. Not Ebay. I called Ebay to confirm her address and could not be provided without the consent of the seller, now that the claim was closed. I made another attempt with Pitney Bowes, provide the transaction number and questioned what Ebay said that Pitney Bowes would not accept and return the item back to me. That never happened. The minimal response by the call centre representative could only confirm of sending the request to search for the item under the transaction number by Priority Mail with the most probability of not finding. That pretty well ends it. Four months of hell, a learning course in Ebay protocol and loss of money. A win win scenario for this seller. I will take your advice and continue with the approach you suggested. At least there can be some satisfaction of stopping this seller from doing again. Thank you so much.

cohmtech · ‎12-27-2018

Hi Tyler..

Just wanted to pass the good news I got today. Both Ebay and Paypal closed the case in my favor and credited my PayPall account for the money paid including shipping cost thru Pitney Bowes distribution centre. My journey and sharing with other Ebay members in the Ebay Community of the worst possible nightmare, hopefully nobody has to experience. This seller did nothnig to resolve and was quite confident that the final desicision by Ebay and Paypal would go in her favour. What a great feeling that the effort made to prove my honesty and go thru the exhausting effort using all the resouces of Ebay and Paypal was a positive. Thanks Tyler for sharing your thoughts thru the experience.