Need advice on seller before I respond

[needsmorerobots]

After 25 years I'v gone back to my old hobby of collecting sports cards. Things are going good until I encounter one seller. Here what he does:

He has auctions for a sealed hockey box. There were only 100 boxes made in this limited run.

Ignorant bids on 2 boxes of teams I wanted the cards for. What I didn't know is I am bidding on the oppotunity to get cards if it falls under the team I paid for. I bid in auction a fee and shipping.

He didn't list this fact higher up in the condition section, it was all below (where I didn't look.

To watch the unboxing you have to go to a live stream YouTube video on the day the auctions ends.

I sit back and watch this video before realizing all these people bid for multiple NHL teams only for him to have 1 box. that was it. 

I realized this seller is not selling, he's established a lotto system through eBay. Last time I checked such a system is illegal unless it's authorized by a provincial government. 

This man has plenty of negatives. I feel rightly cheated. It makes the hobby of collecting sports cards feel cheap and dirty.

I'm thinking of asking for a refund.

How would you handle this?

Thanks.

P.S. Excuse the poor grammer, I wrote this in a frustrated state of mind.

[recped]

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@needsmorerobots wrote:

After 25 years I'v gone back to my old hobby of collecting sports cards. Things are going good until I encounter one seller. Here what he does:

He has auctions for a sealed hockey box. There were only 100 boxes made in this limited run.

Ignorant bids on 2 boxes of teams I wanted the cards for. What I didn't know is I am bidding on the oppotunity to get cards if it falls under the team I paid for. I bid in auction a fee and shipping.

He didn't list this fact higher up in the condition section, it was all below (where I didn't look.

To watch the unboxing you have to go to a live stream YouTube video on the day the auctions ends.

I sit back and watch this video before realizing all these people bid for multiple NHL teams only for him to have 1 box. that was it. 

I realized this seller is not selling, he's established a lotto system through eBay. Last time I checked such a system is illegal unless it's authorized by a provincial government. 

This man has plenty of negatives. I feel rightly cheated. It makes the hobby of collecting sports cards feel cheap and dirty.

I'm thinking of asking for a refund.

How would you handle this?

Thanks.

P.S. Excuse the poor grammer, I wrote this in a frustrated state of mind.

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https://www.ebay.ca/help/buying/returns-refunds/return-item-refund?id=4041

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

I cannot comment on whether what you're describing is against eBay's TOS, or whether the seller did anything deceptive with their listing. 

What I can tell you is that what you encountered is a very normal and accepted way for hobby shops and smaller sellers called "breakers" to sell cards. The logic behind it is that a case of cards is very expensive. Collectors who buy hobby boxes might only keep the hits from their team or the players they are chasing and sell the rest. Buying into a box break is more efficient for the majority of collectors.

Box breaks are common and accepted in the hobby. Like with anything that people can make money on, there is the possibility of scams. There are sellers who are more or less reliable than others. Still, the act of providing the service of a box break isn't a scam itself. Most major card shops run box breaks on their websites. 

Again, I do not know if they are against eBay TOS or if the specific seller was acting in bad faith. But a box break in itself is not a scam. 

[needsmorerobots]

@ilikehockeyjerseys 

Yeah, agreed, I wouldn't call this a scam.

I do call it bad business or at least a lotto. Selling the chance to have one's name added to a raffle to own something.

I've looked up the breaker business on YouTube and I don't like what I hear/see so far. I was a sports card dealer in the 80's (to help fund my own collecting) and being a breaker wouldn't make proud of how I'm earning a profit. There are some methods I just won't touch.

I've decided I won't ask for a refund. I'll leave it as a lesson for myself for not being cautious. 

[brettjet38 · Accepted solution]

Chance listings policy

Enter your search term to display live search results. Use TAB key to navigate results.

• What is the policy?
• Why does eBay have this policy?

Mystery items or listings that offer an opportunity to win an item by chance or contest are not allowed on eBay. Listings for grab bags are only allowed if they follow our policy.

Giveaways and contests are strictly regulated, so we don’t allow listings that sell a chance to win a prize.

What is the policy?

Listings that offer an opportunity to win an item by chance or contest are not allowed. This includes mystery items, giveaways, lotteries, sweepstakes, random drawings, raffles, and contests.

Listings that offer grab bags, "Box Breaks", or similar products must identify all the contents. Please note:

• It isn’t necessary to specify the number, quality, or condition of each individual item in the contents 
• Singling out any individual item with significant monetary or collectible value that “may” be included in the contents is not allowed 

Activity that doesn't follow eBay policy could result in a range of actions including for example: administratively ending or cancelling listings, hiding or demoting all listings from search results, lowering seller rating, buying or selling restrictions, and account suspension. All fees paid or payable in relation to listings or accounts on which we take any action will not be refunded or otherwise credited to your account.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

The way I read that is that box breaks are allowed, so long as they stipulate exactly what the person will receive, and doesn't promise anything.

For example, I would assume someone could list a box break stating that the winner of the auction will get every Edmonton Oilers card from a box of 15-16 Upper Deck that will be opened on y date at x URL. They cannot say the winner will have a 1 in 50 chance at getting a Connor McDavid Young Guns, even know, that is already implied since that Young Guns card is part of the checklist and he is an Edmonton Oiler. Not having to specify the number of items or condition seems to be the loophole to allow box breaks. Because I can say you get all the Oilers cards in a box, but you don't know how many Oilers cards the box will produce. 

I understand that eBay doesn't remove every listing that violates their policy, but given how popular box breaks are in the sports card community, and given that there have been over 200,000 box breaks sold on eBay.ca in the last 90 days, I would assume as a premise that box breaks don't fall under the usual mystery box/games of chance 

[doc-holmes]

@ilikehockeyjerseys

Box breaks are extremely common on ebay, but completely against the rules. You have to say in the listing exactly what you will be getting. "All the Edmonton Oilers cards" is far too vague. Which ones? How many?