eBay

irismoon12 · ‎06-25-2013

I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction. All the posts I've found via the forums are people upset with the program itself, which is not currently my issue.

I need to return an item that I purchased from the US via the GSP. However, I have received no invoice or other documentation regarding the breakdown of fees paid and more importantly NO contact information. I recognize these fees were not paid to ebay or to the seller. However, when I import via Canada Post I receive documentation and information on how to arrange for a refund or correction etc.

How do I go about doing this with the GSP?

Thank you very much.

Just as an aisde, I purchased an expensive camera, and the GSP fees seem very comprable to "regular" import charges, i.e. sales tax at 13% and a brokerage fee. I see that this is not the case for people buying low cost items.

pjcdn2005 · ‎10-11-2013

@chimera148 wrote:
@afantiques wrote:
It seems quite clear that in the case of a SNAD return you are stone out of luck as far a refund of international shipping and taxes paid are concerned, because they have been spent.

So, tough.

Make sure any 'not as described' claims are attributed to damage in transit. Then you will get a full refund.

Clearly PB are hanging their transit insurers out to dry.

Yes, quite a change from what we were told in July, and mentioned in an earlier post here.

Anybody buying GSP items now is taking on a lot of risk of losing more money if the item is claimed not as described {SNAD}.
Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't get that impression at all. In post 51 They are referring to returns, not a SNAD item. As mentioned in post 46, the program doesn't support returns so if the buyer wants to return an item even it is as described, they will not get their shipping and import fees back. They also state that when a buyers wins the case for an INR or a SNAD, they will get back the import fees and all shipping fees.

chimera148 · ‎10-11-2013

You may be right, it would be nice to know how irismoons refund situation turned out.

afantiques · ‎10-11-2013

Anybody buying GSP items now is taking on a lot of risk of losing more money if the item is claimed not as described {SNAD}.

But see the latest post I made on the pinned GSP comment thread above.

It now seems possible the seller may be liable to refund the GSP fees that were charged to the buyer, but the seller of course did not receive.

bennett4612 · ‎10-11-2013

There has been quite a lot of back and forth on this issue, so I will simply add my two cents as a reply to the original post.

As mentioned earlier in the thread the issue of returns was talked about quite a bit in this past week's Live Chat. There are a bunch of questions/replies, including page 4 from dallas_sjc.
This one does a pretty solid job digging into the finer points. http://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Weekly-Chat-with-the-eBay-Global-Shipping-T...

It was a very lively chat, with lots of great questions (and hopefully some useful answers ....). As mentioned in a couple other threads there are plenty of Community members who know more about this than I do. But if you are looking for the nuts & bolts of the program, one place to go is the Buyer Terms & Conditions page:

http://pages.ebay.com/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

Hope this helps.

---Ben

nuvistors · ‎10-11-2013

From the GSP policy page

International Returns. The returns policy specified by your Seller in his/her listing description of a GSP Item will apply to your purchase of the GSP Item. For GSP Items that you return to your Seller, you will not be eligible for, and you will not receive, a refund of any Program Fees that you paid to Pitney Bowes. You may have additional rights under local law.

From this it appears that ebay/pitney bowes will be able to keep all money the buyer has paid fot the GSP fees (whatever they cover)

In the event of a SNAD item the buyer could be out hundreds of dollars and ebay/PB that much richer.

afantiques · ‎10-12-2013

In the event of a SNAD item the buyer could be out hundreds of dollars and ebay/PB that much richer.

The first part is true, but ebay/PB will have spent the money on transport and taxes so they will be no richer than if the sale had concluded in a satisfactory manner.

It now seems possible that the buyer would be be compensated for the program fees by the seller, leaving the seller paying out a refund of money they never received. See the 'Comments' thread.

Sellers will not be happy about this.

Information officially available at the moment seems to indicate that either the buyer or the seller will be stuck with paying the program fees in the case of a SNAD return.

Exactly who is not clear, the only definitive statement is that it will not be ebay/PB coughing up the money.

irismoon12 · ‎10-13-2013

Sorry folks, I thought I had posted my outcome here, or at least somewhere...

So I filed a SNAD and won my case, with a repair estimate from a camera shop. As a last chance gesture to a very non-responsive seller, I offered him the chance to give me the partial refund I'd originally requested, which he had originally refused. If not, I was going to return the whole lot to him for a full refund as per Paypal.

He said sure and immediately processed the partial refund I'd requested. I then called Paypal whom with very little difficulty processed a partial refund of the GSP fees. This Paypal partial refund corresponded to the same percentage refund that the seller gave me. That is, the seller refunded me 33% of my original purchase price. Thus, Paypal refunded me 33% of the GSP fees. Presumably this reflects this decrease in custom duties/taxes and not the actual PB/GSP handling fee.

Happy outcome all around for me, got the refund I needed to repair the camera to the condition the seller said it was in.

afantiques · ‎10-13-2013

Interesting outcome.

pjcdn2005 · ‎10-14-2013

@afantiques wrote:
Anybody buying GSP items now is taking on a lot of risk of losing more money if the item is claimed not as described {SNAD}.

But see the latest post I made on the pinned GSP comment thread above.

It now seems possible the seller may be liable to refund the GSP fees that were charged to the buyer, but the seller of course did not receive.

I read your latest post on the comments thread but I still don't see any suggestion (other than from you) that in a SNAD situation, a buyer will not be refunded the amounts paid to GSP or that the seller would/might have to pay the GSP fees to the buyer.

From the ebay. ca Global Shipping Program Buyers Terms & Conditions

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

4. Lost, Damaged, or Undeliverable Items.If a GSP Item that you purchase is not delivered to the delivery address specified by you, it is damaged, or it does not match your Seller's description, your purchase may be covered by a PayPal Purchase Protection program, as described below.

PayPal Purchase Protection. Your purchases of GSP Items using PayPal are covered by the PayPal Purchase Protection policy applicable to your use of the PayPal services if your purchases otherwise meet the policy's eligibility requirements and conditions and do not fall within an exclusion or coverage limitation. The PayPal Purchase Protection policy applicable to your purchase can be found in the PayPal User Agreement and is governed by the applicable PayPal User Agreement's terms. If you are eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection and PayPal finds in your favor on a claim stemming from your purchase of a GSP Item under the Program, the applicable coverage amount will include the Program Fees that you paid for the GSP Item.

afantiques · ‎10-14-2013

http://community.ebay.com/t5/International-Trading/GSP-and-returns/m-p/17781721#U17781721

You might take a look at this ebay.com thread. There seem to be contradictory positions on SNAD returns depending on where you look. Not unusual, I know, and I am only airing this to try and find some sort of definitive answer other than

GSP does not currently support returns from the buyer to the seller. The seller and the buyer can arrange a return together. In such a case, the import/PB fees would not be refunded to the buyer as the amount was utilized to ship the order forward and, in case import charges were required, those funds have been used to clear the order through customs to deliver to the buyer.

Which was taken from a .com 'Weekly Chat' thread last week. This may only refer to returns outside the Paypal SNAD claim framework, but no-one seemed to know.

irismoon12 · ‎10-14-2013

Just to clarify, given the contradictory and confuing info. which is being presented...My GSP fee refund was via Paypal and occurred in July, 2013.

chimera148 · ‎10-14-2013

Thanks for the update, glad it eventually worked out for you.

Would you know if the seller was charged for the GSP fee refunds from paypal that you received ?

irismoon12 · ‎10-15-2013

No sorry, I don't know. Once I received my refund I was done with the whole ridiculous (seller, not eBay/Paypal) mess. Given the apparent nature of the seller, they are unlikely to be forthcoming with any additional info.

I presume my refund was just the corresponding reduction in duties/taxes which resulted from a lower selling price than originally used for the calculation. Since ebay/PP/PB would be legally entitled to a such refund themselves, from Canadian Customs, I would presume PP wouldn't force the seller to pay out the refund I received. Would be nice to know "officially" though.

bennett4612 · ‎10-15-2013

Hi All.

There are a couple threads going on the .com boards, with questions around returns within the GSP. It was also discussed quite a bit at last week's Live Chat (as mentioned by another Community member, above).

To be perfectly honest I am having a hard time sorting it all out, for all the potential scenarios (SNAD, INR, "wrong color", refunds, et. al.).

I have reached out to a couple other team-members, trying to get clear answers for all scenarios.

Stay tuned ....

---Ben

bennett4612 · ‎10-18-2013

Hi all. Just wanted to post back some additional info regarding GSP fees when it comes to refunds.

First, thanks to all who replied to irismoon12's initial question.

Second, here are the basics on GSP returns. This doesn't cover every single returns scenario but I think it covers everything disussed in this thread. Hope so anyway ....

Cases where the item is not received by buyer (INR), or damaged during the international portion of shipping --

Assuming the item is safely received by Pitney Bowes in Kentucky, that is where the seller's responsibility stops. Both seller and buyer will be "made whole". In other words item price, domestic shipping, + all GSP program fees will be refunded.

Once the INR is reported seller and buyer do not need to take any further action. Refund is processed by eBay/PB.

SNAD cases --

If SNAD is determined to be fault of seller, refund is handled in the same way as non-GSP transactions. Same goes for returns; since returns are not supported by the GSP this is handled between buyer and seller (and of course subject to seller's policies as well as eBay Buyer Protection if eligible). Buyer could also be entitled to refund of GSP program fees, via seller.

Hope that helps.

---Ben

pierrelebel · ‎10-18-2013

"Buyer could also be entitled to refund of GSP program fees, via seller. "

Could you please confirm that.

Are American sellers aware they will have to refund import fees (including taxes) to foreign buyers in addition to refunding the original purchase and shipping charge?

look30 · ‎10-21-2013

I am in a similar situation , bought a watch , arrived DOA and not as described , tried to do a PayPal claim but I wil only get less than half of what I paid because shipping is not refundable. On top of this I will have to pay for retunr shipping which will make me lose more money in the process , a breakdown of the whole scam is this : I paid seller $52 out of which $25 for watch and rest shipping. I will have to pay about $15 for return shipping to get back $25. At the end of day I will end up paying $67 and recover $25 a grand loss of $42 from my pocket for a seller mistake or scam.

I am thinking to call my credit Card company and let them deal with this maybe this way I will recover more .

bennett4612 · ‎10-21-2013

Hello look30.

If your item arrived damaged or "not as described" you should open a case. If the seller is found to be at fault you could be eligible for complete reimbursement, including GSP fees.

If fault lies with the seller then he/she would be responsible for reimbursement. If fault lies with Pitney Bowes then PB would be responsible for the reimbursement.

Hope this helps.

---Ben

afantiques · ‎10-22-2013

If the seller is found to be at fault you (the buyer) could be eligible for complete reimbursement, including GSP fees.

If fault lies with the seller then he/she would be responsible for reimbursement.

(insertion for clarity)

I wonder if it could be made clear to sellers using the GSP that they could be liable for far more than the amount they actually received if any GSP customer finds any fault with an item and starts a SNAD claim. In some cases, from the seller's point of view this could amount to a 'double your money back' guarantee, although it would only be 'money back' to the buyer.

This seems to contradict these passages in the full agreement. What is the correct reading?

http://pages.ebay.com/shipping/globalshipping/seller-tnc.html

If eBay finds against you in a case stemming from your Buyer’s purchase of a GSP Item, the applicable coverage amount will include all Program Fees that your Buyer paid for the GSP Item in addition to the GSP Item price. However, you will only be responsible for the amount that has been paid to you by your Buyer consisting of the GSP Item price and the amount (if any) charged by you to ship the GSP Item to the U.S. Shipping Center.

Similar conditions apply for Paypal complaints.

If PayPal finds against you in a claim stemming from your Buyer's purchase of a GSP Item, the applicable coverage amount will include all Program Fees that your Buyer paid for the GSP Item in addition to the GSP Item price. However, you will only be responsible for the amount that has been paid to you by your Buyer consisting of the GSP Item price and the amount (if any) charged by you to ship the GSP Item to the U.S. Shipping Center.

bennet, both your post and the agreement cannot both be correct.

bennett4612 · ‎10-23-2013

Well, here's the part where the eBay GSP Guy eats some crow ....

I will be posting this information in a bunch of Message Board threads today, as I have been providing information that is partially incorrect ....

This is in regards to GSP transactions where the Seller is at fault (or cases of "buyer's remorse), and the GSP fees (international shipping, import fees, etc.) need to be refunded to the Buyer.

Truth be told it never seemed right that the SELLER would be held responsible for this portion of the refund. So when members of the Community such as yourself started to ask “are you sure about that?” I decided to dig a little further.

Well lo and behold … as it turns out, it is the responsibility of eBay / Pitney Bowes. Which of course means eBay was in some cases providing partially incorrect information when asked about GSP refunds.

****So just to be clear, with GSP transactions: in cases where the SELLER is at fault (SNAD, etc.) AND cases of “buyer’s remorse” – the SELLER is responsible for refunding the purchase price and domestic shipping. And eBay / PB are responsible for refunding the GSP program fees (international shipping, import fees, etc.).

In the case of a RETURN, keep in mind that the GSP does not support returns. In GSP transactions returns have to be worked out between Buyer and Seller, as in a non-GSP transaction.

Once again, sorry for all the confusion. And thanks fto the community for the “are you sure?” nudging.

---Ben