eBay

coops1975 · ‎10-28-2017

I ordered an item for about $33 and about a month after the item arrives (it was just left on my step) I get an invoice from Fedex for $17.50.

First, I never decided to use Fedex and I have no contract with them what so ever. I buy a lot of items online and have never gotten charged duties, taxes, or anything when buying international for under $50 items. These items arrive via UPS and Canada Post all the time with zero issues. Frankly if the Fedex guy had showed up and asked for money I would have refused the package and requested my money back from the seller. Canada Border Services have told me they don't collect duties for items less than around $50

Why should I pay them? What is the worst they are going to do? Refuse to delivery items to me, I doubt it since I will just phone the seller and/or Paypal and tell them the item never arrived and I want a full refund. Are they going to send collections after me, even if they did, I want to see a signed contract where I agreed to their terms and conditions. Collections won't go after parking tickets so I doubt they will go after me on some courier invoice that I never contracted to in the first place

I never decided to ship with Fedex and am about to tell all my sellers if they are using Fedex I am not interested!

marnotom! · ‎10-28-2017

@coops1975 wrote:

First, I never decided to use Fedex and I have no contract with them what so ever. I buy a lot of items online and have never gotten charged duties, taxes, or anything when buying international for under $50 items. These items arrive via UPS and Canada Post all the time with zero issues. Frankly if the Fedex guy had showed up and asked for money I would have refused the package and requested my money back from the seller. Canada Border Services have told me they don't collect duties for items less than around $50.

Canada Border services may not collect taxes and duties for items valued at less than $50, but the law as it currently stands is that the tax/duty-free limit for most items sent by mail or courier is C$20. CBSA may have the luxury of overlooking this limit at its discretion. Unfortunately, FedEx doesn't.

As for agreeing or not agreeing to use FedEx, I don't see how is this different than if you have items mailed to you. When you have something mailed to you, you don't have an agreement with Canada Post and the postal system of your seller's country. Unless your seller offered a different shipping method in the listing than FedEx, you agreed at the time of purchase to all the seller's conditions, including their choice of shipping method. We need to know a little more about the listing and to what you "agreed".

You may also want to read the first couple of pages of the thread on UPS that's a little ways down on this page for another perspective on this.

femmefan1946 · ‎10-28-2017

Canada Border Services have told me they don't collect duties for items less than around $50

You misunderstood the CBSA agent.

Canadians have a dutyfree allowance on shipped items of $20CDN (~$16USD).

This has been the standard since around 1985.

Not every item has duty, if it was manufactured in a country with which we have a free trade agreement like Chile or USA or the European Union for example, or if it is a class of goods , like computers, where there is no duty, no matter where it was manufactured.

And duty on most items is pretty low in any case. One to five percent.

No duty does NOT mean no sales tax.

If the item is valued over $20 sales tax may be assessed and collected even if the item is duty free.

In addition the shipper is allowed to collect a service fee (which is called various things by the various shippers) for wrangling the item through customs.

FedEx and other commercial couriers charge much more for their customs brokerage fees. *

So up to $6 CDN of your $17.50 is probably sales tax.

CBSA has come to the reasonable conclusion that it makes no sense for them to assess and collect duty and sales tax on low value goods, where the amount that would be collected would be less than the labour cost of collecting. CBSA agents get paid about $20 an hour and up. That's about 33 cents a minute. If the assessment and paperwork takes 10 minutes that's $3.33.

That's probably what the agent was trying to explain.

But in this case, FedEx was assessing and charging the fees, not CBSA. **

Contact your seller and explain the situation. He may not know that you would be charged anything. FedEx would not have told him since it is the recipient who owes the money.

If you don't pay, they may go after the seller for the money, since he has some sort of contract with them. You may as well warn him.

Politely.

*The GSP is ~$5. Canada Post is $9.95.

** It's a little more complicated than that. Sub-contracting is the most simplified explanation.

afantiques · ‎10-29-2017

If the buyer does not pay the invoice, Fedex will charge the shipper. It is part of the conditions of sale. I have used Fedex but made sure the buyer understood that they may get an invoice leter for customs charges. The seller is probably inexperienced.

You can just forget it, and leave it to the seller as a learning experience, the choice of action is up to you, Fedex can do nothing to extract the money from you, they simply hope the recipient pays up, but they have the sender as a fallback.

coops1975 · ‎10-29-2017

Then explain why I have received dozens of packages from the US via UPS and Canada Post in the past with values up to $50 with no duty and/or taxes before. Fedex is the only company that wants to charge 50% for an item to cross the border.

I've already thrown the Fedex invoice in the recycling bin.

marnotom! · ‎10-29-2017

In a nutshell, coop1975, you've been very lucky.

The C$20 tax/duty-free limit is stated here:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/courier/menu-eng.html

marnotom! · ‎10-29-2017

Also consider that if you were assessed 18% duty on your item (about six bucks) and 12% BC PST/GST on top of that (about $4.50), that would make FedEx's share of the charge about $7.00, nowhere near the almost 50% you're claiming.

Even if the item's duty-free, there's still about four bucks taxes owing on it, which makes FedEx's share $13.50, not much more than the ten bucks Canada Post charges for collecting taxes and duty on postal imports.

Unless your seller stated a different shipping method in the listing than FedEx, I'd dig that invoice out of the recycling and pay it. If the seller ends up paying it, it's quite possible that they'll end up complaining on a .com discussion board and be advised that using the Global Shipping Program is the way to go to avoid these sorts of situations. Other people will read this discussion and be similarly influenced, leading to even more US sellers using the GSP in situations when there's no good reason to do so.

Think of your fellow Canadians!

lady.stark · ‎10-30-2017

@coops1975 wrote:
Then explain why I have received dozens of packages from the US via UPS .

This part I highly doubt. UPS *always* charge sales taxes and import fees (unless the seller declared a value of less than C $20 of course).

Only Canada Post sometimes let it slide (more often than they should).

marnotom! · ‎10-30-2017

@lady.stark wrote:
@coops1975 wrote:

Then explain why I have received dozens of packages from the US via UPS and Canada Post . . .

This part I highly doubt. UPS *always* charge sales taxes and import fees (unless the seller declared a value of less than C $20 of course).

Only Canada Post sometimes let it slide (more often than they should).

I read "UPS" as a typo or uncaught autocorrect for "USPS" but your point is correct, of course, lady.stark.

femmefan1946 · ‎10-31-2017

If you really mean United Parcel Service, if they are NOT assessing and collecting the appropriate duty and sales taxes for imports valued over $20Cdn, they are breaking the law and could face substantial fines as tax cheats.

Couriers have to obey the law. Canadian Border Services Agency enforce it (among other government agencies) and give themselves a pass.

The United States Postal Service has nothing to do with any import fees charged by other countries. They pass shipments on to Canada Post for assessment (or not) by CBSA .

marnotom! · ‎10-31-2017

Keep in mind that UPS, FedEx and their ilk only try shaking down the recipient for reimbursement of taxes, duty and brokerage/processing charges for items sent by ground. For other classes of shipping, those fees are generally paid on the consignees' end, and can be paid on the consignee's end for a ground shipment as well if the consignee requests it.

In other words, if the OP has had an experience with UPS where they haven't had to pay anything upon receipt of their item, it could be because those amounts were paid at the time it was sent out.

lady.stark · ‎10-31-2017

@afantiques wrote:
If the buyer does not pay the invoice, Fedex will charge the shipper...... You can just forget it, and leave it to the seller as a learning experience, the choice of action is up to you, Fedex can do nothing to extract the money from you, they simply hope the recipient pays up, but they have the sender as a fallback.

Have you ever had a similar experience? Because I don't know if they will do that. Really not sure. I think they will send the unpaid invoice to a collecting agency. That's what they did a few years ago when I forgot to pay a UPS invoice....

marnotom! · ‎10-31-2017

@lady.stark wrote:

Have you ever had a similar experience? Because I don't know if they will do that. Really not sure. I think they will send the unpaid invoice to a collecting agency. That's what they did a few years ago when I forgot to pay a UPS invoice....

I can't speak to AF's experience, but my recollection from the days when the .com site hosted a discussion board devoted to international sales is that there were a handful of posts from US sellers complaining that a Canadian buyer had stiffed them by not paying the brokerage fees and taxes/duty due on an item they had shipped out by FedEx and FedEx turned around and billed the seller instead.

What sort of UPS invoice did you receive that allowed you to pay after delivery?

reallynicestamps · ‎10-31-2017

and their ilk only try shaking down the recipient

I'm enough of an optimist that the $25+ service fee /brokerage fee/handling fee that has been reported may actually reflect the courier's costs. Plus a profit, which is considered okay in a capitalist society.

Which makes Canada Post look very good, considering they have well-paid union workers (as well as all those nonunionized sub-contractors) since they only charge ten bucks.

I'll leave PB /GSP out of this (at about $5USD) because they are not charging on the doorstep, which strikes me as being a more expensive use of manpower, but computerized based on the information eBay and the seller provide.

lady.stark · ‎10-31-2017

@marnotom! wrote:

What sort of UPS invoice did you receive that allowed you to pay after delivery?

It's been a few years, but I think for some reason my credit card company refused the charge thinking it was not authorised. I have no clue why. Then UPS sent the invoice to a collecting agency. My memory is a little fuzzy on the details, but I learned my lesson! Didn't want to have bad credit.

jt-libra · ‎10-31-2017

@coops1975 wrote:

I never decided to ship with Fedex and am about to tell all my sellers if they are using Fedex I am not interested!

Unfortunately, we all learn this after one bad experience.

A few years ago, I bought a comforter set from New Jersey (not on eBay). It cost $179.95 US with a $30 shipping cost. I was okay with that. It didn't even occur to me to ask how it was being shipped. Everything I had purchased from the U.S. on eBay up until that point had been sent USPS, with GST and duty charged on only a couple of items worth about $200.

When my comforter arrived, the FedEx carrier presented me with an invoice for approximately $30 to cover "import fees". I expected that, so okay. A month later, I got an invoice in the mail from FedEx for $100 to cover brokerage fees. I was really upset. I had no idea. I didn't even consider not paying it.

So now, I explain to sellers, both eBay and non-eBay, how costly UPS or FedEx are and ask if they can ship USPS. Most won't, presumably because they have contracts with certain carriers.

It's a hard lesson to learn.

afantiques · ‎11-01-2017

It has been some years since I used Fedex but the shipping contract form was clear to me at the time

My CC was on file for any unpaid fees. That's why I'd only use it for something heavy and valuable, Too heavy to go as a small packet Postal item. And I'd make sure the recipient was OK with possible charges, which I'd help them to be by keeping the declared value as low as seemed reasonable. 🙂

Since almost all my sales were international the simple answer was not to offer any items over 2 kilos but sometimes the potential profit was was worth the extra hassle.

comicgeek74 · ‎11-08-2017

With UPS, FedEx or courier service whatever in Canada. I like to call their version of brokerage fees the "double double" attack. Trust me, I had that happened on me few times in the past. Learn the lesson and I now pick up my parcels across the border and whatever I need to pay duties. I can act as a broker myself and just pay over the counter. Lot cheaper that way given how much I bring back to Canada.

femmefan1946 · ‎11-08-2017

If.....

If you leave out the money you could have been earning when you were driving to the border and back again.

I usually mention the 18 cents a MINUTE that is the minimum wage in British Columbia at this point.

If you leave out the gas you used (even if you fill up on the American side).

And if you leave out the time you spend at the courier's office, which you might have to do in Canada anyway.

marist-l0 · ‎09-01-2021

Yeah, I get these issues plus ebay sellers are push towards fed ex wich charge double price of items for delivery. I have never seen such expensive shipping with such bad service