eBay

momcqueen · ‎09-29-2015

Having received the first negative feedback (and defect) of my entire selling career from a buyer who used the Feedback Forum to provide a product review, I called ebay Customer Service and received such incredibly poor customer service from their The Phillipines-based reps in the Escalation Department, that I actually opened an account elsewhere today and listed my first item for sale on the Big Competition to ebay.

I am traumatized by their total disregard to my position. Not only that, I spoke to three levels of reps during a call that logged 1:21 minutes and counting and, finally, was assured I would get a call-back today from The Supervisor who did nothing of the sort. No one called. No One.

Adding insult to injury, the third rep quoted ebay.com policy at me when I quoted ebay.ca policy back to him. That it was different didn't matter.

This letter 'eBay Won't Correct Mistake over Seller Compliance Issue' to everyone's favourite blog, eCommeBytes http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/letters/blog.pl?/pl/2015/9/1443544396.html sums up my sentiments exactly. I did not write it. It's not mine, this wasn't my issue but it certainly was the way I was treated, and the way I now feel.

What is left for sellers to do? It is not in my nature to be discouraged. Ever. But I think that I have given up here.

gemaddict · ‎10-02-2015

The problem is that the one defect eBay will leave in place is the one where sellers have absolutely no control..unless they ship with tracking. It's already been established that many/most Canadians can't afford to use that shipping method.

Ordinarily I wouldn't be so worried either, until now, because for reasons unknown to me I've suddenly had nothing but trouble with ship time. I can't use tracking on most of my sales for all the reasons that have already been stated. Therefore I have no protection. With the new system I most likely would already have too many defects to continue selling. In the past six weeks I have had problems with at least five shipments. For me this is unheard of. Three were to the U.S. One took four weeks to arrive! Two have been out three weeks and I am not sure if they will even make it. A another was overseas and took just over four weeks. One was domestic going from SK to ON. It made it there but CP sent it back stating that the person either didn't exist or had moved. After contacting the customer I find that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the label. I sent it back and it reached the destination with no problem.

I should also mention that my three U.S. buyers all referenced the delivery date had already been passed. So yes buyers are taking notice. Ebay has already included the question on the feedback form for both U.S. and Canadian sellers. The question is above the DSR'S.

So thanks to the postal service and possibly customs I would have most likely lost my right to sell or at least any discounts/perks because even though I go out of my way for buyers and I ship super fast I have to take the fall for things out of my control. I don't think sellers are being over reactive. This is a very valid concern.

momcqueen · ‎10-02-2015

This experience has not changed my opinion of the Fall Seller Update one whit; I still think it is an ill-advised move on the part of ebay.

My issue with the negative feedback was just that: the negative feedback, not the associated defect. Had it been negative feedback for an Item Not Received or Item Not as Described, I'd have accepted that as a lump taken from a valuable learning experience, cringed, made good with the buyer, and moved onward. The negative feedback left was about absolutely nothing that I could control and not anywhere within the realm of fair comment. I wish I could go into greater detail but it I fear it would jeopardize whatever follow-up investigation (hah!) that ebay is doing with this matter. Suffice it to say the feedback leaver in this case had an issue that was not related to my performance, the issue was personal. That was clear in the feedback and follow-up messages. Clear to me at least.

My sense of disgust and, yes rose-dee, betrayal stems from how I was treated by Customer Service over the matter. They truly did not care. Like, they really didn't care. Perhaps they understood, I'm not even certain of that since none took the time to actually LOOK at the item in question, or the buyer's comment, or the buyer's history of Feedback Left for Others. And then they lied to me about a follow-up call that I would receive.

I will take months to navigate my listings elsewhere and wind down operations here but when I am done, I highly doubt ebay will notice. My buyers will follow, I'm not terribly worried about that.

It was not overlooked at that moment negative feedback was left for me that some within the eBay Community may see it as just desserts for the way I have been so outspoken in stressing that the removal of defects for negative feedback in the Fall Update is a mistake on the part of ebay. I still feel that it is. Just as I am acutely aware the feedback leaver has an issue here that is not related to the product purchased. Again, my issue was not with the defect I would have received, it was with the stink of the red stain the negative feedback left on my spotless record. For no actual valid reason.

Also it was the fact it was so incredibly clear to me that it warranted removal as it was worlds away, and I mean outer-space-distance, away from appropriate comment for the item purchased.

On an unrelated note, I had to call Customer Service again last night for something completely different, an incomplete international address and non-responsive buyer. As usual, the person on the other end of the line sounded like they were taking my call from inside a tin can stuffed with people being hurled down a mountainside. After having to explain twice what I needed, I was transferred to another department where I spoke to a second person who was ultimately helpful (I hope the advice they gave me in terms of procedure to follow was not incorrect) but who sounded more surprised and relieved than me that the matter was satisfactorily resolved.

I have no doubt Customer Service Reps are doing the best they can with the tools they have been given. I can, however, read Help pages myself and do. If I set aside the required 45 to 90 minutes to place a call, I am looking for advice from a real person with critical thinking capacity. I cringe for the new buyers and sellers out there, the ones who are still trying to find their way through the woods.

Thank you everyone for your comments and thoughts. They are valuable to me.

sylviebee · ‎10-02-2015

mj, It makes complete sense to sell in as many places as you can handle but it usually takes a push of some kind to spread it out.

However, eBay is clearly the venue of choice for many items and shooting one's self in the foot by leaving completely makes no sense.

rose-dee · ‎10-02-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:

"If I set aside the required 45 to 90 minutes to place a call, I am looking for advice from a real person with critical thinking capacity."

I apologize for sounding flippant, and I don't mean to sound unsympathetic -- quite the opposite -- but this did make me laugh (out loud). My own conclusion has been that the people at eBay's "Customer Service" are anything but capable of such thinking. You've been assuming they are there to sort out difficult issues of policy and procedure and that they are fully able to do so. I think this couldn't be further from the truth. There's a good reason I call it "Customer Disservice". I don't bother calling anymore.

I think, 'mj', that you're expecting the sort of intelligent and informed people in place that one would find at the other end of the line, say, at a North American web hosting service company. I deal with one of those companies, and their CS people are outstanding, exactly what you would hope to get from eBay. My view is that eBay put their CS in place merely as lip service, to perform the minimum necessary service.

I suspect eBay hires these people based on very little actual experience in IT or eBay, many have a poor command of English, and are likely paid ridiculously low wages to sit in booths and regurgitate prepared policy comments or else enter keywords into their computer screens and parrot whatever comes up. For the most part, I've found, they are incapable of even properly understanding the issue explained to them in the first place, let alone making a reasonable judgment based on eBay policy.

However, I do suspect that if a complaint is made about feedback or a defect by a seller with an otherwise spotless record, the seller's record alone may be enough to have the issue reversed, i.e. not because it's logical and right to remove such a blot, but because they've probably been told to accede to the demands of sellers with excellent records. I imagine that's the real reason your negative got removed.

I also think that if the problem is one that can easily be slotted into a common policy cubbyhole, i.e. without any independent thinking being required on the part of the CS employee, it may get resolved -- square peg, square hole kind of procedure.

Another thing I recall hearing a few years ago on the boards, is that eBay keeps track of the frequency of a particular seller's calls to CS, meaning presumably the more one calls, the less attention one gets. I have no idea whether this is urban legend, was true at some point but is no longer the case, or may be accurate, but it's something to consider.

To sum it up, eBay's CS is a sham. I put them just a level above these scammers who keep calling me from India about reducing the interest on my VISA card -- they're all just reading from prepared scripts for minimum wage.

rose-dee · ‎10-02-2015

Oh, correction to the above, 'mj', I see that you mentioned your buyer revised his FB on his own accord, not that eBay removed it.

However, I think the principle still applies in many cases, i.e. that eBay may remove an issue simply based on the seller's good record, and not on logic or fairness. I've had this happen once myself.

pierrelebel · ‎10-02-2015

"I put them just a level above these scammers who keep calling me from India about reducing the interest on my VISA card"

A level above! You are very generous!

There are three basic problems in "Customer Service" since eBay laid off 700 Canadian employees when they closed their office in the Vancouver area in 2009

http://tamebay.com/2009/05/ebay-closes-vancouver-customer-service-centre.html

1) The main goal was to cut costs which explains why the new centre was established in the Philippines using new, inexperienced and clearly underqualified employees

2) Since the vast majority of questions and inquiries come from eBay.com users, the staff is trained to answer those inquiries from their templates, adapting at times for Canadian inquiries IF they understand the difference. Many employees clearly do not understand the differences.

3) (deleted as it may offend some people)

Anonymous · ‎10-02-2015

mjwl -- I just wanted to send you a great big ((HUG))!!

I TOTALLY get it -- I feel so similar to you, I also called & talked to customer service regarding a new negative and the lack of help was insane. I also listed 1 item (only 1) on the River last week .....hang in there, you are not alone!!

momcqueen · ‎10-03-2015

Thank you.

I know I am not alone floundering within this neck-deep sea of frustration. I suppose the only part of this that I can truly control is that I care more about what happens on ebay than is good for me. Like I'm some kind of zealot for high standards and then I get slapped in the face with a negative-feedback-red-dead-fish to keep me in my place. So, I reach out to ebay for assistance and basically they say, 'No, you take this slap in the face with a dead fish and you like it, and if you don't like that, here's a lamprey or two. Now, sod off. Our supervisor will call you tomorrow. Please hold your breath and wait for that to happen.'

pjcdn2005 · ‎10-03-2015

Nothing has been said about requiring a seller with too many late responses to ship with tracking. I have heard that in some cases a seller may be required to change their handling time in that type of situation.

I have are to agree with Sylvia that there is a chance that eBay will tweak some of the rules once they see exactly how well or poorly they will work. When the current defect system was brought in it was almost impossible to get a defect overturned. That has changed a lot in the last year.

again, I think that it is better to wait until we can see the actual numbers rather than assume now that the sky is on the edge of falling. Maybe it will be as bad as some think and maybe it won't be.

rose-dee · ‎10-03-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I have are to agree with Sylvia that there is a chance that eBay will tweak some of the rules once they see exactly how well or poorly they will work. When the current defect system was brought in it was almost impossible to get a defect overturned. That has changed a lot in the last year.

Yes, but exactly as with the initial roll-out of the defect system, many smaller sellers will already be dead in the water by the time eBay realizes they should have made some adjustments.

What irks me the most is the very fact that eBay has to make changes afterward. What those supposedly brilliant idiots in San Jose should be doing is anticipating and playing out scenarios before they even get to the point of introducing new policies. This is what CEOs and analysts are supposed to do.

I feel that they're always in such a hurry to change for the sake of appeasing a particular demographic of users or shareholders that they almost always roll out half-baked policies. I can't recall a time in the last 4 years when they haven't had to apply band-aids to fix ill-conceived policies. It's a stupid way of managing and running a business, to be retroactively fixing what should have been foreseeable in the first place.

As a buyer, I just confronted the new system (with the on-time delivery question), and I can tell you that even I hesitated at being met with that very black and white, bold-face, yes or no, response. In many cases buyers may feel they can't remember, therefore can't honestly say "Yes". The chances are just as good they'll choose "No". I don't call that a fair metric to base a seller's reputation on.

rose-dee · ‎10-03-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Nothing has been said about requiring a seller with too many late responses to ship with tracking. I have heard that in some cases a seller may be required to change their handling time in that type of situation.

Well, I don't know how you read this, but I can't think of anything in addition to increasing handling time that this part of the policy refers to if it isn't referring to the use of tracking. Just because it says "including restrictions on stated handling time" doesn't mean that is the only enforcement eBay will undertake. This text is leaving eBay's options very open, it seems to me:

"If the only seller performance metric you are not meeting is for on-time shipping, your seller level will remain above standard. However, we may restrict the shipping options your listings can offer, including restrictions on stated handling time. [...]"