Background Fees...in case you didn't notice

[rose-dee]

EBay has been finding any and all corners over the past year or so to increase their fee revenue from sellers.  Many of these fee increases were clearly announced, but I haven't seen much notification regarding the listing upgrade fees that were put into effect a few months ago, which are now mostly based on item price and listing duration. 

This first caught my attention in the fall when I noticed the usual price for Gallery Plus on one of my newly-listed items seemed to have doubled from what it had been for years.  Yup, sure enough, today I finally checked the new listing upgrade fee chart, and although a few categories are free, most aren't.  

This is simply a heads-up for anybody who hasn't noticed the changes -- be aware that these fees will keep rolling over month after month on GTC or auto-relists, an easy way to lose track of a whole lot of money.  

Between increased store fees, HST, loss of TRS, lower sales volumes, and these new fees, it's no wonder my fees in 2017 were averaging 20% or more of sales, whereas for all the previous years I'd held that ratio to around 10%. 

Here is the current chart (from the .ca help pages): 

"Advanced listing upgrade fees for auction-style and fixed price listings.

• Fees are charged per listing or per category, if multiple categories are selected.

• If you set up automatic relisting for your item, we charge insertion fees and advanced listing upgrade fees each time the item is relisted. If you're using Selling Manager automation rules, insertion fees and advanced listing upgrade fees also apply each time the item is relisted.

Upgrade Starting or Buy It Now price: under $150 Starting or Buy It Now price: $150 or moreAuction-style listings (all durations) Fixed price listings (all durations)

1, 3, 5, 7, and 10-day duration	30-day and Good 'Til Cancelled*	1, 3, 5, 7, and 10-day duration	30-day and Good 'Til Cancelled*
Scheduled Listing	Free	Free
Listing Designer	$0.10	0.30	$0.20	$0.60
Gallery Plus  Free for listings in the Collectibles, Art, Pottery & Glass, and Antiques categories	$0.35	$1.00	$0.70	$2.00
Subtitle	$0.50	$1.50	$1.00	$3.00
Value Pack	$0.65	$2.00	$1.30	$4.00
Bold	$2.00	$4.00	$3.00	$6.00
List in 2 categories	Insertion and advanced listing upgrade fees apply for each category Final value fees are charged once per item, if an item sells
International site visibility
Starting price	Fee	$0.50
$0.01 - $9.99	$0.10
$10.00 - $49.99	$0.20
$50 or more	$0.40

* Good 'Til Cancelled listings renew automatically every 30 days until all of the items sell, you end the listing, or we end your listing. Insertion fees and advanced listing upgrade fees are charged every 30-day period. Good 'Til Cancelled listings count toward your monthly free-insertion-fee listing allotment. Fee amounts are based on the terms in effect when the listing goes live and when it renews."

[lady.stark]

These are probably for non store right? Because "Scheduled Listing" is not free when you have a store.

[ypdc_dennis]

For non-store: http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/fees.html

For stores: http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/storefees.html

There are differences between the two.  So switching too or from a store can bite you don't double check.

...

One fee that a lot of people overlook is the "Special Duration" fee for 1 or 3 day listings -- those are an extra dollar.

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[momcqueen]

"Between increased store fees, HST, loss of TRS, lower sales volumes, and these new fees, it's no wonder my fees in 2017 were averaging 20% or more of sales, whereas for all the previous years I'd held that ratio to around 10%."

Or it's mostly that your sales performance is lesser (as you've said in the past on numerous occasions) and therefore fees account for a larger slice of your pie.

Fees haven't take me by surprise me for five years now. I struggled with promos ending and features staying on my listings that were no longer free, and surcharges for auctions or scheduling, and also unnecessary upgrades like boldface or subtitles for the first six to eight months of selling but never again after that. Once the Shopping Cart was fixed and I had no reason to call ebay for refunds on Final Value Fees charged on shipping later combined by me and refunded to the buyer, I stopped caring.

I've noticed very little difference in the fees I pay monthly with only a ten per cent Top Seller Discount versus a 20 per cent discount. Ditto for GST. It's a few dollars, not enough for me to worry about feeling shortchanged. 

[recped]

Only inexperienced newbies use the Advanced Listing Upgrades. No matter what the fee is they are rarely of any value.

[momcqueen]

Precisely. I found in 90 per cent of cases that when I used Boldface in a listing, it sold almost immediately..... to a non-paying bidder/buyer. You don't get those upgrade fees back when your unpaid item case closes, either. 

[cumos55]

There was once a seller on eBay... someone  that added every single upgrade possible.to each listing

Her husband had to pay extra, each month,  for his wife to sell on eBay.....  Her sales total never covered the total cost of fees.

When the husband understood what his wife was doing,  she was stopped ... prevented ...from selling n eBay... and she had her computer taken away

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A good seller may use an upgrade....

However, there are many sellers who choose to keep everything simple... without upgrades... and they do very well

[ricarmic]

I agree, some upgrades work well in certain situations.

Since 1999 I continually do experiments trying new things, and sometimes retrying old things.

Sometimes upgrades make a positive difference. Figuring out what ones work for what one sells is the challenge.

Generally I've always tried to keep things simple.

[rose-dee]

For those who decided to use this opportunity to take a bite out of me, tant pis, that wasn't the point of my post.  I simply posted this information in the event others may have missed it.  

For the record, I rarely use such upgrades.  In fact, the only one I ever use is Gallery Plus, and then only for the occasional highest-priced item.  I sell OOAK items, and giving potential buyers a quick close-up look has been helpful and worthwhile for an extra $1.00.  Maybe not so much anymore for $2.00. 

As for the reason my fee ratio has risen, it had little to do with any sudden drop in sales volume.  It is a much more complex picture.  The ratio jumped significantly practically from one month to another earlier this year as a result of the combination of loss of TRS, the addition of 15% HST (I'm in N.S.), and -- largely -- my switch to selling mostly on .com in order to avoid cart issues.  Since my sales have historically been over 90% to the U.S., anything, however small, that creates inconvenience or confusion for them during checkout is poison.  I still do not have complete confidence in eBay's ability to seamlessly integrate all aspects of the cart system between sites. 

For those who don't sell on .com, this means paying FVFs at a higher rate on my primarily U.S. shipments in addition to no longer benefiting from $0 FVFs on practically every sale by offering free domestic shipping as I used to do when listing mainly on .ca, thus a loss at both ends ("domestic" on .com means U.S.).  Higher U.S. shipping costs have only added to the FVF problem.  I now sell far more automated multi-item orders on a regular basis as a result of switching over mostly to .com, but of course eBay doesn't give me credit for all those sales.  Five or six items to one customer is one transaction, which directly impacts TRS.  

My sales volume, although down from pre-2017, hasn't changed much over the past year, yet my fee ratios certainly have. I doubt I'm the only Canadian seller reliant on U.S. sales who has experienced this recently.  The only thing that may help, if I can stand all the fuss, time and paperwork involved, is to become a GST registrant.  I am a designer and publisher as well as a seller, so my time is much more limited than if I were simply re-selling.  However, with rising shipping costs in 2018 (i.e. higher FVFs), it may finally be necessary. 

[cumos55]

Every seller chooses what to do to sell on eBay.

There are so many options to use...... The basics and then the rest

Each seller chooses what works for their inventory... and then adjusts as the years pass.

Selling on eBay is like dancing a waltz  and.....  eBay is playing polka music

[ricarmic]

Lest we forget, eBay's waltz is what they think they need to do to survive.

Just like us, some of their decisions will be good ones, some will be bad ones..

Our job, as Rose was helping with is to notice things that are changing and adapt/adjust as we can....

[rose-dee]

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@cumos55 wrote:

Selling on eBay is like dancing a waltz  and.....  eBay is playing polka music

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Yes, well put, and eBay continually changes the tunes and the tempi, just when we think we're in step.  

Retiring $US listings on .ca and ignoring the cart problems also certainly didn't do eBay any harm, as it doubtless drove a lot of Canadian sellers over to .com, where of course eBay would make a lot more money off them in FVFs. 

Oh yes, and then there was the ca. 25% increase in store subscription fees last year, adding insult to injury.  

[rose-dee]

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@ricarmic wrote:
Lest we forget, eBay's waltz is what they think they need to do to survive.
Just like us, some of their decisions will be good ones, some will be bad ones..

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That is true, although I would say that, overall, especially in the past 4 or 5 years, eBay seems to have forgotten how to focus on enabling its sellers to be as efficient and successful as possible.  Other sites do a much better job of supporting and facilitating their sellers' work, which in turn creates more income for the site.  For a number of years I think eBay has been focused on seller control, restriction, and punishment, as well as how to maximize the fees it collects, rather than making our jobs smoother and ensuring we can make more money for them. 

By the way, no wonder the discussion board went haywire a few hours ago -- look what they've done to it now!  They can never leave well enough alone. 

[ricarmic]

My analogy for the current problem is that it is like trying to get a group of 40 people to decide on 4 sets of ingredients to order on their pizzas. Everyone has their own likes/dislikes. The actual situation is worse because ebay will have 100s of people in the decision making process to identify a limited number of priorities at any time (they can only do so much in a year) and that process takes time.

In my experience the other sites that better react to the current situation are much much smaller. This means in my analogy there's only 5 people deciding the pizza ingredients, which is much easier and more quickly accomplished.

Regarding the board change,  yep I was surprised by the change, thought it was a glitch at first, but no, I guess the purple is here to stay!!!!

[recped]

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@rose-dee wrote:

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 Retiring $US listings on .ca and ignoring the cart problems also certainly didn't do eBay any harm, as it doubtless drove a lot of Canadian sellers over to .com, where of course eBay would make a lot more money off them in FVFs. 

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Can you explain this to me? I don't see how listing on .com means higher fvf's for eBay?

[amcdc79]

The .ca board now looks just like the .com discussion board.

Typical, fixing things that are not broken, it would be nice if ebay fixed things that are broken.

All we can do is dream, eh.

[rose-dee]

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@recped wrote:

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@rose-dee wrote:

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 Retiring $US listings on .ca and ignoring the cart problems also certainly didn't do eBay any harm, as it doubtless drove a lot of Canadian sellers over to .com, where of course eBay would make a lot more money off them in FVFs. 

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Can you explain this to me? I don't see how listing on .com means higher fvf's for eBay?

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Yes, of course although it's a bit convoluted to explain.  For Canadian sellers like me, whose primary market is the U.S., it used to be possible to list on .ca in $US, but take full advantage of shipping FVF discounts by offering free shipping within Canada.  This meant that (in my case at least), I paid virtually no shipping FVFs, except on the rare Canadian sale.  This strategy was a huge boon in terms of keeping overall FVFs low, particularly since I often listed items well over $100 that required higher-priced shipping to the U.S.

For example, previously (when I listed on .ca in $US), I was able to sell a ca. $300 item to a U.S. customer that cost, say, $35 to ship, without paying any FVFs on the shipping because my domestic (Canadian) shipping was shown as free.   The money I saved over a year more than made up for the occasional free shipping I had to pay out of pocket on Canadian sales.  

Currently, by contrast, in listing on .com, not only have I lost the ability to benefit from the FVF discounts by offering free domestic shipping, but I also now pay FVFs on practically every shipping cost (except for my promotional free shipping offer -- buy 4, get free shipping -- on which of course I pay the entire shipping cost out of pocket anyway).  So the $35 shipping that cost me nothing in FVFs previously, now costs me $3.15 in FVFs.  Every time I sell, I pay eBay a fee for the privilege of shipping my items.   

This wasn't an accidental choice on my part however.  It was a calculated risk to move to .com.  I've historically sold over 90% to the U.S.  I know my market, and I know my buyers like to browse and buy more than one item at a time.   This is where the cart issues entered the picture.  When I listed exclusively on .ca, I was finding that my mainly U.S. customers were having real difficulty getting through eBay's checkout, particularly in attempting to purchase more than one item at a time (I won't go into the tiresome details, but it went on for quite some time, with one issue or another). 

I finally decided that paying higher FVFs might be worth it to ensure my buyers could check out seamlessly (using their .com cart).  Sure enough, as soon as I moved over to .com, I started getting multi-item orders again regularly, and that has continued to the present.  Those type of orders more than compensate for the higher FVFs, but as I said above, eBay in the meantime is making more money off sellers like me who felt that listing on .com was the only reasonable choice once $US listings were retired off .ca and in view of the cart issues. 

To be frank, I still don't have complete faith in eBay's cart/checkout system being able to function easily and seamlessly 100% of the time for my U.S. buyers.  If I did, I'd probably move back to .ca.  Last time I checked, there were still issues with the cart between sites.  As things stand, I'm willing to accept that eBay is getting more money out of me than they deserve for their dysfunctional systems.  All I'm concerned about is that my customers encounter no issues whatsoever in checking out, and so far that has been the case. 

I'm sure there are a lot of Canadian sellers in the same boat whose sales are primarily to the U.S. and who felt that moving to .com was the only logical choice, despite the higher fees.  I doubt many of us can afford to offer free shipping across the board to the U.S. (which in many cases would represent a loss anyway that would be worse than paying shipping FVFs).  This is particularly so for a seller listing lower-priced items on which it's difficult to "hide" the ever-increasing shipping costs to the U.S.   

If a seller has a pretty good mix of Canadian, U.S., and international sales, I doubt it would make much sense to move over to .com given the extra costs, but that wasn't my particular situation.