Buyer claims chargeback after he agreed for transaction

[sidneypenguins87]

Hi,

I've sell 2 hockey e-tickets April 28th, 2013 to a guy.  Before and even after payment has been made, he asked me many questions to know if tickets were authentic, if he could have the proof of purchase that I bought the tickets...  Since it was playoffs game and game was close to the selling date, I asked him if he minds if I send him E-tickets by email so he could get it faster because in one of those email he sent me, he told me that he was unable to make it to the game so he would try to sell them or give them to some clients in his business.  His tickets were near mine, but the night of the game, nobody showed up.  So, I told myself, well, he could not make it to the game and he did not sell or give them to nobody.  More than a month later, he  called his credit card company to claim a chargeback from Paypal because he did not authorize this transaction !!!! I was shocked !  I exchange more than 20 emails with him and always answer fast.  He told me I had a good feedback and he had confidence in me for the tickets but was scared about scam with Montreal Canadiens tickets.  Anyway, after my shock period has passed, I responded quickly to chargeback as my tickets worth each 271$ so 2 tickets is 542$ but when he bought it, he got them for almost 200$ less at 355$ !  He told me it was a great deal. So, I've sent all emails I have exchange with him and proof that I've sent him the tickets by email and my proof of purchase of those tickets.  Do I have to send also the emails he exchanged with me on Ebay.  I have them all ?  Anything else I can send ?  I lost money with that transaction and now I will loose all ...  What can I add more to have it non-chargeback !!! I was honest I told him everything and he asked me a lot of questions.  Does all the emails will give back my money ( the 355$ are on hold in my account !).  He told me many times that he asked a lot of question because he wanted to be sure not to be robbed with those tickets and here we are now, he wants me to pay the tickets he was unable to use or sell ... It is not my problem !  Can I do more... I'm desperate !!!

[recped]

This is one of the reasons eBay banned electronic delivery of items. There is no way to prove either delivery or shipment. If you even had proof of shipping you would have automatically won an Unauthorized Use claim.

There are rules to qualify for Seller Protection, if you follow them you are covered if you don't you are on your own.

[sidneypenguins87]

I did not know electronic shipping was banned.  A lot of sellers do that on Ebay and I do it with no problems.  This guy who claimed to be honest, was not finally !!!  Anyway, with what you say, I can say bye bye to my money then !!!  Any other advices ?  Ot what I should send to hope, cause it is hope now, win this claim ?

[sidneypenguins87]

More than that, do the emails we exchange with our personnal email adresses and on ebay will help me ? He cleary states that he was unable to atend the game and would try to sell them or give them to someone in his company.  Also, when I asked him to confirm that he received the tickets, he replied me yes.  So is it going to help ? It is a chargeback from his credit card company not a claim for Item not received or similar.  I dont know... I lost so much money trying to sell back those tickets... My husband did not want me to send them by email but I wanted to help the guy selling them back so that's why I offer to send them by email !!! Hope Paypal chargeback specialist will see he tries to scam me !!!!!

[recped]

The only way to win an Unauthorized Use Chargeback is to provide proof of shipment. If you have that PayPal will eat the charge if they can't win. Without it there is no chance for you to win.

The PayPal rep will see what happened but the result will be the same, follow the rules or operate at your own risk.

The digital delivery policy can be found here:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/downloadable.html

It is not specific about tickets but it's a similar situation.

From the PayPal User Agreement, transactions which are not eligible for Seller Protection:

11.5 Items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller Protection. The following are examples of items/ transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller Protection.

- Claims or Chargebacks for Significantly Not as Described.

- Items that you deliver in person, including at a retail point of sale.

- Intangible items, including Digital Goods, and services.

- PayPal Direct Payments.

- Virtual Terminal Payments.

- PayPal Business Payments.

- Items that are not shipped to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page. If you originally ship the item to the shipping address on the Transaction Details Page  but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of shipping and delivery. 

Requirements to win an Unauthorized Use Claim:

Unauthorized Transactions Additional Requirements:

- The payment must be marked “eligible” for PayPal Seller protection on the Transaction Details Page.

- You must provide Proof of Shipment or Proof of Delivery.

[reallynicestamps]

This may be a silly question, but have you considered phoning the arena and reporting that your tickets were stolen?

[Anonymous]

Inform his credit card company that he did "authorized" the payment and offer the credit card company that you would email or fax or mail all the proofs of email/correspondence and see what happened.

There are more "scams" with chargeback with many credit card companies via eBay lately than before.  I had one bad experience but fortunately was on my side as I shipped them by XpressPost with signature and the buyer left me 22 positive feedback.  This scammer got galls saying it was "unathorized" after signing and left me 22 positive feedback and the fact is that he filed a chargeback 4 months later, same with other 10 sellers, value over $20.000, very clearly scammer!   Right now this scammer is in jail.

[pierrelebel]

"Inform his credit card company...'

Not possible.

The chargeback by the credit card issuer is done through PayPal.

PayPal has to give the money back to the credit card issuer and then get it from the seller.

Disputing the "not authorized" can only be done through PayPal and is - unfortunately - extremely difficult.

[recped]

Disputing the "not authorized" can only be done through PayPal and is - unfortunately - extremely difficult.

Actually it's incredibly EASY, PayPal offers superior protection from Unauthorized Use claims to just about any other payment processor on the planet.

You do have to follow a few simple rules.

[sidneypenguins87]

Thanks !  Inform his credit card company.  If only I knew what company ?  Anyway, I've just ckeck into Paypal and found out this :

Step 1 - Receive notification of chargeback

By filing a chargeback, buyers ask their credit card issuer to reverse an approved transaction A charge that has been processed and paid through PayPal.. Common reasons for c...

An item was paid for but never received.An item received was significantly different than described....

The credit card issuerThe bank, credit card company, credit union, etc., that issues a credit/debit card., not ...

When you follow the guidelines of our Seller Protection Policy, you are protected against fraudulent...

Step 2 - Review chargeback details right away

In the Resolution CenterLocated in My Account, the PayPal resource for resolving issues between buyers and ...

If you agree with the buyer, you can accept liability and return the funds to the buyer from your Pa...

If you think the chargeback is unwarranted, we can help you make a case to present to the credit car...

The card issuer sets the timeframe for disputing chargebacks. If you don't respond within 10 days, w...

We hold all fundsRestricting the funds associated with a dispute so they cannot be withdrawn from a buy...

Step 3 - Card issuer makes its final decision

Once you've provided all necessary information, we present your case to the card issuer.

It can take 75 days or more for the card issuer to review and decide the case.

The card issuer, not PayPal, makes the final decision.

If the case is decided in your favor, all held funds are released.

We notify you when the card issuer makes its final decision.

Finally, It is the credit card company who makes the decision not Paypal. So, if the credit card company reviews all emails I've sent to Paypal (I am in Laval, QC and the guy is from Montreal, QC and the emails I've exchange with the buyer are in French)  and is honest, then they should not reverse charges since they will see clearly that the buyer wants to scam me !!!  But like everyone said, I should have sent it by Expresspost but since he told me he was unable to make it, I wanted to give him the chance to sell them back.  He never asked me to cancel the transaction.  I could have sell the tickets to someone else...  I've sent him an email to that buyer and he never replied me back !  I've asked him why he do that to me after all emails we've exchange and asking me full of questions and being trustworthy and honest.  I never lie to him and tickets were authentic and I really send them to him and he replied me that he receive them.  I'm really shocked !!! He wants to get his money back just because he was unable to attend or sell them back !!!  That buyer is really a pain for Ebay community !!!

[brandeentertainment]

FYI ... Do not try to ship with tracking now because if the buyers refuses the parcel you will still lose.. Just thought i would let know in case you try that ..

[sidneypenguins87]

No I wont do it because it was tickets for a game on May 2nd, 2013.  But thanks for the advice.  So it is sure I will loose even after all the emails I've exchange with him and he says he received the tickets and would not attend because he can't and he will try to sell them ? I dont understand why he had wait so much time (after a month).  If he wanted to go to the game and did not receive them, he should have done a chargeback/claim a lot before !!!  It is not like you are not in a hurry to receive a package, this were tickets for a game held 3 days after !!!  Anyway, he's an as*ho** !!!! Excuse me but this is it !

[Anonymous]

One most annoying thing about chargeback is that PayPal is "passing the bucks" to sellers when it should be PayPal, only and the whole as PayPal is the one that release $$$ from buyers' credit card companies.  So why "blame" the sellers?  PayPal shouldn't hold sellers' funds as hostage during the process.  I am sure that PayPal has its own isurance and can cover them, unless they have the purposes of doing double.  That is my opinion.

[theredface]

I shipped two $20 bills to a buyer in April and left me a positive feedback. After a month she claimed a chargeback. I told Paypal she has already got the items and left a feedback but Paypal still wants to see my proof of shipment. I am loosing confidence with paypal with the way they investigate.

[pjcdn2005]

I told Paypal she has already got the items and left a feedback but Paypal still wants to see my proof of shipment. I am loosing confidence with paypal with the way they investigate.

It would be nice if Paypal and ebay took feedback into account when looking at item not received claims and chargebacks.....at least in some instances. But, they don't do that and their rules are very clear on what sort of proof you need when there is a problem so I don't think that Paypal is the bad guy here...the customer is the one that did the chargeback.

[pierrelebel]

"It would be nice if Paypal and ebay took feedback into account when looking at item not received claims"

Nice but not practical.

Over the years I often received positive feedback from buyers within minutes of receiving my positive feedback for their prompt payment.  Days or weeks before they actually received the item.

Why?  I do not know.

I am confident many other sellers have similar experiences.

[rose-dee]

This is one of the reasons eBay banned electronic delivery of items. There is no way to prove either delivery or shipment.

EBay hasn't actually banned all electronically-delivered items.  Many are permitted, as long as certain guidelines are adhered to, and as long as the seller is authorized, by ownership or otherwise, to sell the product. 

The main concern on eBay's part is protection of intellectual property.  The policy doesn't specifically list e-tickets as restricted, which may be a bit of a grey area that eBay hasn't caught up to.  It would seem obvious though that the risk of a charge-back or other problem would be higher for such an item if delivered digitally.   

From the policy page on digitally-delivered goods:

"Why does eBay have this policy?

The guidelines on digitally delivered goods help create a safer place to buy and sell by prohibiting sellers from using eBay in a way that might infringe on the intellectual property rights of others or violate the law. They also help protect buyers from purchasing unauthorized or pirated items."

The policy stipulates that allowable digital items have to be listed in the "Everything Else" category, using the "Classified Ad" format.  However, when you follow the "Classified Ad" link, you end up on the Real Estate listing policy page, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

[lady.stark]

I am in Laval, QC and the guy is from Montreal, QC 

If you live so close of each other, have you tried phoning him? You can have his contact information by going to Advance Search http://www.ebay.ca/sch/ebayadvsearch/?rt=nc

"Find contact information" http://www.ebay.ca/sch/ebayadvsearch?_sofindtype=9

I also have a question... if we was unable to attend the game, a request to cancel the transaction would have been appropriate. Is there a reason why you didn't offer him that option?

[tobyshitzu]

classified doesn't exist on .ca and barely on.com with a high fee for little chance of ever being seen adfor transactions done off ebay

digital items are banned, but there are tons listed all the time.   Thriving market for digital game items on ebay

[rose-dee]

digital items are banned, but there are tons listed all the time.   Thriving market for digital game items on ebay

I'm sorry, but based on current information on eBay's policy pages, I disagree - please see Post #16 above.  Not all digital items are banned, although probably the more common ones are. 

Unless eBay hasn't updated that policy page and there's been a recent change, it clearly states certain digital items are allowable, provided the seller is authorized or has ownership and follows the guidelines set out.