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toff3 · ‎04-10-2015

I don't know if a rather peremptory email to the No 2 honcho at Canada Post did the trick or not but you can now determine the domestic Expedited Parcel rate on the new CP Find a Rate website the same way as in the past.

You don't need to sign in to your Canada Post/Venture One account.

Enter the shipment details for a Parcel (origin and destination postal codes, dimensions and weight).

Options for Priority, Xpresspost and Regular Parcel appear.

Click on Show minimum on-line savings.

The option for Expedited Parcel will appear.

Tom

cumos55 · ‎04-10-2015

Just did a calculation for a parcel to Ontario....

Regular Parcel ... tax was calculated using 5 % not 13 %

Tax was correct with the Expedited parcel calculation.

So... We have to be careful...... Canada Post is working to correct things... slowly.... more errors are possible

pierrelebel · ‎04-10-2015

"Regular Parcel ... tax was calculated using 5 % not 13 %... Tax was correct with the Expedited parcel calculation."

BOTH tax calculations are correct.

When shipping regular parcel, the tax rate that is applicable to the transaction is based on the province of the shipper (in your case 5% GST). When a parcel is sent Expedited or Priority, the tax is calculated based on the province of the recipient (13% HST in this case)

That subject has been covered several times in the past. It is tricky but the calculator at Canada Post does work properly as far as tax calculations are concerned.

cumos55 · ‎04-10-2015

Learn something new every day.

I have never used Regular Parcel.... so I was not sure which tax percentage was applicable...

When Regular Parcel is shown as a part of ... Ventureone.... tax is calculated at 13 %

and the total cost for Regular parcel is the same as for Expedited Parcel

I have never paid attention to Regular Parcel , without being a part of Ventureone...

more for a comparison Regular Parcel versus Expedited Parcel.

Expedited Parcel does include insurance up to $100... while for Regular Parcel that level of insurance costs extra

pierrelebel · ‎04-10-2015

"Regular Parcel is shown as a part of ... Ventureone.... tax is calculated at 13 %"

Yes, that is because users of Venture One are considered "business" and the tax rules are slightly different for business because, when the rules were made decades ago, it was understood (or "assumed") that "businesses" would be GST registered and the rate and amount charged would be more or less irrelevant as the "business" claims the full amount as Input Tax Credit (ITC).

Take a look at:

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/support/helpcentre/post_office/taxes.jsf

and try to make sense of the many tax rules! if you are an individual.... if you are a business!

cumos55 · ‎04-10-2015

The rules relative to lettermail were known by me.

The rules relative to parcels.... business versus not-business is something new... for me

For me parcels were always business rules when it came to GST/HST....

toff3 · ‎04-11-2015

Tax calculations are one thing but what I don't like about the CP Find a Rate calculator is that volumetric (cubed) weight is not shown even though it determines the rate. Only the weight entered, which 99 times out of a 100 will be the actual weight, is shown. As far as I'm concerned, this is yet another example of the sneaky way in which CP treat their customers.

I suppose we can be thankful that at least at the post office and the RPO, both the actual weight and the volumetric weight are printed out on the receipt.

Tom

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-11-2015

Why do you want the volumetric weight to show? I understand how the price for expedited is figured out but when I am using the calculator I want to know what the price is going to be, not whether the price is based on the actual or the dimensional weight.

toff3 · ‎04-12-2015

PJ,

I'm all for transparency and the dimensional pricing policy used by Canada Post is just one more example of how they squeeze extra revenue out of their customers while hoping they (the customers) won't notice. Even CP's volumetric divisor differs between domestic and international parcels (6000 vs 5000), so international rates are that much higher than with actual-weight pricing.

The Find a Rate calculator lists the parcel's length, width, height and weight entered, then gives the rate, which may be based on a different weight. Sure, it's the rate that you wanted to know but there's no indication that if you'd used a different-sized box you might have saved yourself some money. It's a wonder CP bother to show both weights on receipts.

The USPS like to point out that their shipping rates are lower than their competitors' because they don't use dimensional pricing routinely. At least they give their customers a break once in a while.

Tom

cumos55 · ‎04-12-2015

Many buyers would be confused if they saw two prices for shipping on a label.

and then they ask ... Why was I not charged the lower value?

-------------------------------------------------------

A volumetric weight was brought in to compensate for the fact that a large low weight parcel was taking up volume ...

that is ...volume..... where several small parcels, and priced on the basis of weight, could be carried.

Volume is more important with international shipping... and it cost more to ship via airmail than surface mail.

------------------------------------------

USPS has looked at volumetric weight.... and some day USPS will use it.

Just like some day.... they will get rid of reduced rates for media mail..

and ....

do remember that USPS ships all international parcels via airmail... and airmail only.... That was initiated a few years ago

pocomocomputing · ‎04-12-2015

I will agree with Tom that the Find A Rate calculator should show the actual weight and the volumetric weight and which as chosen to be used as the shipping cost rate.

No need at all to show the two shipping costs to the buyer, that is not relevant at all to the decision process used by the Find A Rate calculator. Showing two shipping costs would be confusing to the user and not needed.

For those that cannot understand volumetric weight, a simple explanation on the Find A Rate page and a link to a more detailed explanation somewhere else is all that is needed.

A change like this to the current Find A Rate page would cause some initial confusion and anger but once it is there, users of the Find A Rate page would get used to the process. In fact, it would educate many users that Volumetric Weight exists and the users might consider using smaller boxes to reduce their shipping costs.

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-12-2015

USPS has looked at volumetric weight.... and some day USPS will use it.

They are using it now but I believe that it is just for larger Priority Parcels.

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-12-2015

A change like this to the current Find A Rate page would cause some initial confusion and anger but once it is there, users of the Find A Rate page would get used to the process. In fact, it would educate many users that Volumetric Weight exists and the users might consider using smaller boxes to reduce their shipping costs.

Good point. I don't think that I knew about volumetric weight about I had been selling for a while.

I doubt that CP is too concerned about people lowering their shipping costs although that might lead to the service being used more so it could be a win/win.

I know this was discussed but I can't remember if on a complete Paypal label the weight showing is the actual weight entered or the volumetric rate. I believe that it is the latter?

cumos55 · ‎04-12-2015

They are using it now but I believe that it is just for larger Priority Parcels.

I did remember something about the USPS and the use of volumetric weight...

but was not sure about it... or when it started

pocomocomputing · ‎04-12-2015

Here is a USPS web page on the use of dimensional weight.

https://www.usps.com/dimensionalweight/

How is DIM weight calculated?

DIM weight is based off of a package's cubic size, which you can calculate by multiplying its length, width, and height. Shipping companies then use a volumetric divisor to determine the DIM weight. The other major shipping companies use 166 as the volumetric divisor for domestic packages, while USPS uses 194. So not only will a package's DIM weight always be lower with the USPS, but we only apply dimensional weight pricing to Priority Mail packages greater than a cubic foot and shipping to Zones 5 to 9.

treasure.hunter.d · ‎04-13-2015

@pocomocomputing wrote:
Here is a USPS web page on the use of dimensional weight.

https://www.usps.com/dimensionalweight/

How is DIM weight calculated?

DIM weight is based off of a package's cubic size, which you can calculate by multiplying its length, width, and height. Shipping companies then use a volumetric divisor to determine the DIM weight. The other major shipping companies use 166 as the volumetric divisor for domestic packages, while USPS uses 194. So not only will a package's DIM weight always be lower with the USPS, but we only apply dimensional weight pricing to Priority Mail packages greater than a cubic foot and shipping to Zones 5 to 9.

A related note to this. Since this was put into effect by Canada Post the increases in Expedited USA rates as package sizes increase, in some cases, are absolutely ridiculous.

For example, the difference between Expedited USA for a box measuring 30cm(12") x 30cm x 30cm and a box measuring 36 cm(14") x 36cm x 36cm, at the same weight of 3kg is roughly $15 CDN, to the exact same destination. So an increase of 2" per side, which becomes 6cm because of the rounding up costs you an extra $15. That is insane and really puts the exclamation point after the words "SCREW JOB!"

pierrelebel · ‎04-13-2015

"That is insane"

Is it?

Think about it.

a box with 30cm x 30cm x 30cm has a volume of 27,000 cubic cm

a box with 36cm x 36cm x 36cm has a volume of 46,656 cubic cm

equivalent to 73% more.

I know 6cm seems to be so little. So yes, it makes sense to pay more if you use 73% more space.

treasure.hunter.d · ‎04-13-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
"That is insane"

Is it?

Think about it.

a box with 30cm x 30cm x 30cm has a volume of 27,000 cubic cm

a box with 36cm x 36cm x 36cm has a volume of 46,656 cubic cm

equivalent to 73% more.

I know 6cm seems to be so little. So yes, it makes sense to pay more if you use 73% more space.

Actually Pierre,

If you take a look at the rates in various sizes you will see that a box measuring 26cm (10") on each side compared to a box measuring 30cm(12") only shows a price difference of 21% ($6 in my test) at the same weight and to the same destination while having a 73% difference in volume along with a 2" per side increase in measured length.. The size difference from 30cm (12") to 36cm(14") however has a price increase of 43% ($15 in my test). while showing only a 59% increase in volume for that same 2" increase in measured length per side. If you look at the differences from 26cm to 36cm you have a volume difference of 174% and a price difference of 74%. So basically Canada Post is using some very creative math to screw us for sending larger packages regardless of their weight.

The math is wonky no matter how you look at it and if the math is wonky then the whole system is as that is what it is based on. There was little to no thought put into this and again, the end result is the consumer getting burned.

toff3 · ‎04-13-2015

@treasure.hunter.d wrote:
There was little to no thought put into this and again, the end result is the consumer getting burned.

On the contrary, Canada Post put plenty of thought into implementing dimensional weight pricing: how can we increase our revenues without overtly raising rates?

Dimensional pricing can be justified for larger parcels but that's not what I'm talking about. In the last few weeks I sent 3 medium-size boxes (c. 30 cm x 25 cm x 10 cm) weighing around 1 kg to Vancouver Island. Two of them turned out to be dimensionally priced. Nothing too shocking, maybe 60 or 80 cents more in postage. Nickel and dime stuff but it all adds up.

That's Canada Post - our "most trusted institution".

Tom