eBay

authenticantiques · ‎02-12-2014

I recently sold 2 items to 1 buyer in the states. She paid I shipped next day, both items in 1 package.

Items were shipped this past Friday morning, going to CALI ~ She contacts me on saturday morning asking for a tracking number ~ It is then I realise I'd made a mistake. My mistake was when printing the shipping label I printed STANDARD AIR SHIP instead of TRACKED. I was very forthcoming about my mistake and apologized profusely, all the while assuring her they had in fact been

shipped and should arrive before the end of this week. I even let her know that for WHATEVER reason, should she not receive them I would refund the TOTAL purchase price and she could count on me to make this right.

I log in to PAYPAL yesterday morning and they REFUNDED HER! Before even receiving the items which would be due tomorrow or Friday , she files an unreceived item claim with paypal and has the fees reversed back to her account!!! Now I am out 150$ for one item and am being told at any moment she can reverse the 2nd item of 250$ back to herself. And there is nothing they can do for me.

She has changed her FB status to private stopping me from basically outing her **bleep**py behavior. What now???

Ive appealed with PAYPAL ~ Contacted EBAY and notified them as well and "they are investigating"...The Paypal rep told me this happens all the time and that this is an ongoing scam yet they haven't changed their policies???

Any Ideas?

rose-dee · ‎02-12-2014

Something doesn't quite make sense in this scenario. From the few times I've used Tracked Packet (I prefer Expedited to the US), it actually took longer to get to destinations in the US than Small Packet. I assume you mean Small Packet (or Light Packet) when you say "Standard Air Ship"? This means that the original expected delivery date that was recorded by eBay might well have been later than the actual delivery date.

I'm not sure why Paypal would refund the buyer prior to the original (tracked) expected delivery date -- did you receive any notice or warning at all before the refund was made?

Did your buyer actually pay for Tracked Packet shipping, or did you cover it for her? If she paid for it, she may have become anxious when she heard from you about the error and thought that she was the one being scammed. If she paid for tracked shipping, did you refund her the difference (between that service and the cheaper Small Packet) when you first contacted her about the error? I think I might have, as a sign of good faith.

It's hard to know what her reason was for going "private" -- it may not signal anything but paranoia on her part.

There isn't much you can do once Paypal has made the refund. Obviously her items are going to arrive soon, and you can hope she'll be honest enough to tell you when they do, and that she'll be willing to let you re-invoice her. I'd at least try to keep in touch with the buyer for this reason alone.

All very strange - perhaps someone else has had a similar incident happen and can offer something better.

authenticantiques · ‎02-12-2014

Yes I mean light packet, and yes I find that it does arrive faster than tracked.

But to answer your question No she did not pay for tracked. She assumed that is the method I would use I suppose.

Paypal never gave me a heads up as to deciding to refund one of the items. When trying to respond to the dispute

they only give 3 options ~ Refund the client / Weve agreed to cxl / I can provide tracking info

If I do not choose one of these I cannot proceed therefore will result in them deciding in her favor which is what they state.

So I choose I can provide tracking and within the msg box stated the situation and that no tracking was issued to begin with

but that I did ship the items next day of payment and that she would receive them shortly.

Allowing her to even open this case before allowing for a reasonable delivery time is ridiculous 😞

As for her honesty I hope so but I have a feeling her bruised ego for being wrong about this whole thing and jumping the gun

will trump any honest bone she may have. Bottom line is I have totally lost faith in PAYPAL who will also keep their fees + are charging me for the reversal...

discouraged.

rose-dee · ‎02-13-2014

I don't blame you for feeling discouraged. We all make mistakes at some point, and it seems to me you did the right thing to inform the buyer immediately about the shipping service issue. Most buyers would probably not get so tied up in knots over it, and would wait a few days before jumping the gun.

I'm surprised Paypal would immediately refund without waiting at least for the period of time stipulated by eBay for delivery of the item. I suspect (although I don't know for sure) that Paypal sets its allowable time limit for buyers to make an INR claim based on anticipated delivery times within the U.S. I haven't personally ever had this occur (Paypal refunding a buyer prior to an expected delivery time), and I'd be very interested to hear if any other sellers have experienced it. Without tracking, sellers haven't got much recourse, and of course tracking is easier to provide if you're a U.S. seller.

EBay and Paypal have been pushing buyer protection as far as it can go, and this sort of irrational situation is the inevitable result. For example, I've seen recent ads on eBay.com touting what is virtually a no-questions-asked, unconditional "Money Back Guarantee".

This means that even buyer remorse will now be a justifiable reason for getting a full refund. In my view, that may work well for a B&M store, but not so well for online sales. At any rate, I do sympathize with you, and as I've said in an earlier post on another subject, part of the "new" eBay for sellers is just being able to take a deep breath and move on.

Nonetheless, even honest, fairly insignificant (or otherwise solvable) mistakes are becoming less and less tolerated by eBay/Paypal. It's a tougher row to hoe for sellers than it was even 2 or 3 years ago, and I for one dread what more may be coming at us in the Spring Seller Update. Meantime, chin up, I think you did everything you could in the circumstances.

regineb_b · ‎02-13-2014

I'm wondering if you could open an unpaid item case with Ebay? (Because this is what this situation is IMO)

reallynicestamps · ‎02-13-2014

reg- Unfortunately, no. The buyer paid and then was refunded. So a UID would not fly.

OP- In hindsight, you would have been better not apologizing for the error and just giving the number of the Light Packet shipping invoice and date fo shipping. This would reassure an honest buyer and might discourage a scammer into thinking that a numbered parcel is a tracked parcel. "Your parcel was sent Feb.1, by Canada Post Light Packet # xxx xxx xxxx. This is an Air Mail service. Probable arrival date Feb 21. " for example. No apology and useful information.

In case she is just a nervous nellie, use Contact Buyer to politely ask her to refund the refund when her parcel arrives, and give the probable date of arrival.

Guilt trip her in other words.

Your error was less in using a fast and inexpensive service, than in being overly communicative and not insuring the parcel. In addition to the Canada Post services that include insurance (and which are also tracked),

Keep in mind that tracking and insurance are for the benefit of the seller.

For future reference, there is a company that insures one-off shipments, I understand more cheaply than Canada Post. I believe the name is something like shipinsurance/shipinsure (?). I haven't used them, but many posters seem happy with them.

Also, $150? Uggh!

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-13-2014

It's odd that she would file an item not received for only one item if you told her that both items were sent together.

As far as I know, ebay does not allow a case to be opened until the estimated delivery date but I don't think that Paypal works the same way. It sounds like you have already spoken to ebay but I would use the report a buyer button and explain the situation and then I would also phone them a couple of days later about it and ask that they look into it to see if the buyer makes a habit of filing inr claims.

maggiebvintage2010 · ‎02-13-2014

I've had this happen. I was told by a PayPal supervisor that if a complaint of non-receipt is made by telephone, PayPal immediately makes it an escalated case - that is their policy. If you try to open a case through the Resolution Centre, it won't be opened if you try prior to the eBay guidelines. Some eBayers know that they can bypass this by calling PayPal directly. In my case, they reviewed the buyer's history, found a pattern, and removed the case, feedback and DSRs from my history. PayPal is aware that their telephoned complaint policy is at variance with eBay's policy, and I was told they were "working of it".

authenticantiques · ‎02-13-2014

Hello All

Thank you so much for all the helpful replies!

I do see how I was too apologetic and in my own fear of being mis-judged for a thief

wanted to alleviate her concerns to the point where I may actually have created them 😞

She did make the phone call directly to Paypal which is why it excalated so fast as I was explained today.

She did however CLOSE 1 of the cases this morning, 238$ for the Silver Jewellery Box, which means she received it.

Which also means she has the 150$ Rock Crystal Necklace in it!

They have not refunded my 150$ though and when I contacted them this morning, they said they would contact her and see whats up.

She clearly received her items, hopefully Paypal see's that and pays me.

I did try to file an unpaid item through Ebay for the necklace but it did not work seeing as the item was refunded.

Im thinking of leaving it alone for a couple days and see if I hear anything from her or Paypal...?

I am in Canada and ship worldwide, if I ship tracked im told it takes too long, If I ship light packet it gets there quickly but

then some are angry they cant keep an eye out. I really do the best I can to please everyone but I am starting to see that its nearly impossible.

How do you deal with partial refunds? I list my items with much detail, how can someone possibly buy and then say it was not what they expected? Yet when they ask, I accommodate...I almost always put the full 12 pictures from every possible angle...I love what I do, I quit both my jobs to do this! Life is short and I want to wake up every morning ready for a day where I will be doing something that im passionate about but I agree that things are getting quite tough for sellers and "The Customer is always Right" moto has gotten out of hand.

rose-dee · ‎02-14-2014

@maggiebvintage2010 wrote:
I've had this happen. I was told by a PayPal supervisor that if a complaint of non-receipt is made by telephone, PayPal immediately makes it an escalated case - that is their policy. [...] PayPal is aware that their telephoned complaint policy is at variance with eBay's policy, and I was told they were "working of it".

I suspected as much. Let's hope Paypal works on it asap. I would not want to have to refund on an item after paying for tracked and/or expedited shipping simply because a buyer either got nervous about the delivery time or wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

Thank you for mentioning this. I will at least know it's worth pursuing with Paypal if a "naughty" buyer is involved.

rose-dee · ‎02-14-2014

@authenticantiques wrote:

I do see how I was too apologetic and in my own fear of being mis-judged for a thief
wanted to alleviate her concerns to the point where I may actually have created them 😞

I'm not sure I agree with 'reallynicestamps' on this point. I think 90% of buyers would have appreciated your honesty, and likely would have said "no problem", especially since you offered up front to refund should the item not arrive within a reasonable time.

Personally, I think that not communicating your error could have got you into just as much trouble had you promised a buyer tracking (someone who really understood what tracking was), and the parcel got delayed or went missing entirely.

There is a certain dishonesty in passing off Light/Small Pkt confirmation #s as tracking #s, that relies upon buyers' ignorance of the details. I know that some sellers feel that pulling the wool over buyers' eyes in this manner is a clever way to reassure nervous buyers and put off scammers. However, a buyer who understands how to check tracking online would not be fooled and would not be happy, particularly if tracking was promised. Not only might you lose a repeat customer, you might actually get reported and/or receive some nasty FB.

Granted, tracking first and foremost covers the seller's posterior, not the buyer's, but I find that my buyers appreciate being able to check the status and whereabouts of their purchases. So I maintain that it has a significant "comfort value" for buyers as well.

By the way, by "tracking", I don't mean only Tracked Packet. I find that even the limited online information provided by Expedited Parcel is sufficient to allow most buyers to see where their parcel is in the process and allow me to reassure them if I'm asked, yet the service seems to be faster than TP.

You're absolutely right -- I would say that shipping issues are my #1 bugbear on eBay, and I'd suspect that most sellers who sell a variety of goods would say the same thing. For people who ship items of relatively consistent size and shape (stamps, books, postcards, etc.) over and over again, shipping is a much easier problem to solve than when you're constantly faced with items of different sizes, weights, shapes and fragility. I ship everything from 90gm small sewing patterns to 2.5kg or more garments that require the biggest box Canada Post sells, so I've had to work out a very careful shipping strategy. You have an added challenge if you're shipping breakables.

EBay isn't an easy place to sell, but it does get clearer as you go along. You'll find that you do have to be very careful and very thorough in everything you do, and (at least in my view) honesty is still the best policy when it comes to dealing with your buyers. I think this experience you've had will be rare, and you've learned some useful things from it. Your next few buyers will restore your enthusiasm, I'm sure.

rose-dee · ‎02-14-2014

@authenticantiques wrote:

How do you deal with partial refunds? I list my items with much detail, how can someone possibly buy and then say it was not what they expected? Yet when they ask, I accommodate...I almost always put the full 12 pictures from every possible angle...I love what I do, I quit both my jobs to do this! Life is short and I want to wake up every morning ready for a day where I will be doing something that im passionate about but I agree that things are getting quite tough for sellers and "The Customer is always Right" moto has gotten out of hand.

I wouldn't worry about partial refunds until you're actually faced with such a situation. Frankly I think most buyers will just want their money back if an item is unsatisfactory. That's business -- occasionally a buyer will think that what they bought wasn't exactly as expected. One way to head this off is to undersell but over-deliver, i.e. don't avoid mentioning flaws, defects, etc. and don't be too effusive in praising your own goods.

One thing you do have to accept as a seller on eBay is indeed that the "Customer is Always Right". If you can't absorb the occasional refund, you may need a different business model. For years sellers were able to take advantage of buyers in various ways on this site, and eBay ultimately swung the other way in their policy-making. There are now areas where sellers are unfairly dealt with (such as fake INR claims), and we can only hope eBay will think up some way of sorting that out.

In the meantime, you can insure your shipments -- especially your breakable or more valuable parcels, continue to use Light/Small Pkt if it suits, reserve the use of tracking for items of higher value, and signature confirmation for those over $250 (to protect yourself). How you actually charge your buyers for the various shipping methods is up to you -- there are many different options.

dutchman48 · ‎02-14-2014

I believe Paypal does not have the same delivery restrictions as Ebay, hence why people file through them.

I sent an other letter mail from Alberta to Quebec on a Friday and Paypal allowed the buyer to open a claim on Monday.

luminites · ‎02-14-2014

@dutchman48 wrote:
I believe Paypal does not have the same delivery restrictions as Ebay, hence why people file through them.

I sent an other letter mail from Alberta to Quebec on a Friday and Paypal allowed the buyer to open a claim on Monday.

When people file a claim on eBay, don't they automatically get directed to the PayPal resolution centre? At least for eBay.ca?

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-15-2014

When people file a claim on eBay, don't they automatically get directed to the PayPal resolution centre? At least for eBay.ca?

Yes. If they made their purchase on any site other than .on com. the claim automatically goes through Paypal.

luminites · ‎02-15-2014

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
When people file a claim on eBay, don't they automatically get directed to the PayPal resolution centre? At least for eBay.ca?

Yes. If they made their purchase on any site other than .on com. the claim automatically goes through Paypal.

Thanks. On the eBay.com forum, posters were speculating that a Canadian buyer who filed a claim through PayPal was kicked out of buyer protection on eBay. I'm not sure if anyone took me seriously when I said that we can only file on PayPal if it was bought through eBay.ca.