Scammed by eBay.

[myk221]

In dispute, buyer clamed that watch is defective, because he is getting pain in the wrist bones after a minute or so wearing it.  He said watch is working and looks exactly as described, but still claim it is defective. Requested full refund, eBay off course sided with him, charged my acct for shipping back and forward, also charged me for full price including shipping again.

Deposit to my acct was $150 after sale got throw, withdrawal was $191 + $22 + $13.

So, I am out of watch **bleep** never sent them back and -$76 dollars which eBay stole from me.

Talking with eBay through messaging and phone utterly useless, they just rotating same response.

What the hell happens with eBay? eBay got paid, buyer got free watch.

Should I order  something "defective" myself, to get my money back?

[recped]

Unless YOU did something wrong eBay will not refund buyers if they don't return the item.

"something wrong" would be refusing to accept the return.

If you had accepted the return you would have the watch, eBay would have refunded your fees and your only cost would be the shipping to and from.

[rocketscollectibles]

You had to accept the return, provide a label in the case, then refund once returned and inspected. If you lost the case i guess it's because you asked eBay to step in or did not offer a solution (accept return + provide label) within the 4-days allowed. Never fight a return when it's open as item not as described, received damaged/defective, or wrong item received. It's part of the money back guarantee to accept those returns. Fight them after it's returned. In some cases you won't have to fully refund if buyer exploited the system. I'm not sure how you got charged shipping for return and case close in buyer's favor, it doesnt make sense. If you provided the label in time in the case it would have switch it to 'awaiting shipment from buyer'. Something is missing. 

Edit: pretty sure you can void a shipping label not used too. 

[reallynicestamps]

When you refused to accept the return, and refused to pay for the return shipping, you also got a Defect on your account.

Defects can mean restrictions on the number and value of your future listings, higher fees, and closure of selling accounts temporarily or permanently.

This sounds like a Buyer's Remorse case.

In those cases the Buyer pays for return shipping, the seller refunds on arrival, eBay returns any fees, and the seller relists the item after revising the listing in case the buyer spotted a problem the seller had missed.

[myk221]

I offered refund if buyer will pay shipping cost, he said no.  He knows system better and using it.

I been here for years and if things changed this way, why eBay still allowing for us sellers no return clause, why not do it like Amazon officially, just to say you must accept return no matter what and you always pay shipping cost both ways.

As for defect on my acct, I am wondering if safe to use eBay at all? I am not selling cheap junk.

[rocketscollectibles]

why eBay still allowing for us sellers no return clause

The no returns and returns accepted are seller policy for reasons other than the ones into the money back guarantee. As wrote twice, item not as described, received damaged or defective, or wrong item received, are part of the ebay money back guarantee. You must accept those, whatever your store policy. You buyer indeed exploited the system and did a false claim but you had to accept return, and report after returned. The way to handle returns and when, it's all in the ebay rules. You should read them. 

A true and fully no returns as you want would just allow sellers to scam. Sellers could ship items with defects or whatever and just run with people money. Doesn't make sense. It would be an unsafe place to buy and no one would want to buy on ebay. The site would crash. You'll say this system is unsafe for sellers, but the reality is that you mishandled the case from lack of knowledge about rules. 

[myk221]

So I should accept return, pay for shipping both ways in whatever scam buyer pulling. It wasn't way when we had PayPal, now eBay is dealing with credit cards directly, saving money for eBay but at sellers expence.

As for the sellers abusing no return policies, never been problem before, go by ratings and you safe.

For last 6 month it's third scam attemt on my store, one was covered by mail insurace. Another one paid but still tried to claim that he got fake watch, and this one get pain in the wrist but kept wach with eBay help.

May be we can sell penny things here but now its infested by crooks.

Do you remember when no one wanted to ship to China or Russia, guess I can put US on the same list.

[rocketscollectibles]

So I should accept return, pay for shipping both ways in whatever scam buyer pulling

If buyer open a case with the reasons i said, yes. You must either accept the return or refund, within the 4-days allowed (or case close in buyer's favor). It's your decision based on the item price. It's not a scam, it's more an exploit of the system. You basically lost your item because you mishandled the case. It wasnt the buyer purpose at first, his purpose was to force a return. It's once returned, you can report the buyer for an abuse of the money back guarantee. Never experienced it to this point but i'm pretty sure you can deduct shipping cost from refund if you got proof the buyer opened a false claim. Which you have if he stated it wasnt defective and opened a case for being defective. You could have contact ebay telling them to take a look at his messages saying it wasnt defective (maybe you still can and appeal?). Also buyers getting report too many times for it will get suspended or banned. 

[dobo5250]

i feel for you -- you feel screwed - but in this case -- your angry cost you more than you know -- accept the return offer to send return label-or get him/her to send cod cost of return what ever it takes - just don't get a ding its cost you many times over  i know what i speak off iam paying the penility now for months on end that cost you with every sale.. just take the the return and refund -- and move on -  if they refuse that then ask for ebay help  

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

eBay doesn't arbitrate individual disputes. They operate on a system where a claim a customer makes is taken at face value. The seller is obligated to resolve the claim by providing a return shipping label, or by negotiating a refund with the customer (full or partial). If you do not resolve the case with either of these by the deadline, you are considered in breach of your duties as a seller on the platform. The buyer can ask eBay to step in, which will result in eBay noticing that you did not resolve the case. They will resolve it with a full refund.

Your best bet when you have any of these issues is simply to resolve them, usually with a return label. A genuine customer will return the item. A scammer will not return the item. This will result in eBay closing the case. You can then get a refund from your shipping service for the unused label. 

You can report the buyer after the fact. This does not help you with your specific return, but it does help get bad faith buyers removed from the platform. eBay takes action against buyers who receive multiple reports of bad faith activity. They do not take action through individual cases. 

If you receive a damaged item or an empty box, eBay does have mechanisms where you can restrict a portion of the refund to reimburse you for this. An empty box would also be a situation where you could contact the proper authorities for mail fraud. That would be outside of eBay though.

Ultimately, the point of this post is to inform you about how it works. Not to defend or critique eBay's system. If you sell anything on eBay (or most other online platforms with buyer protection) you have to factor in the liability of a possible good or bad faith return. If you are a casual seller who won't benefit from eBay's large userbase, selling something on a used classified site where outside of something extreme like small claims court or getting robbed, the liability is much lower for the seller (but higher for the buyer) because it is a final sale cash transaction. Collectible items usually take much longer to sell on those platforms, since they are more aimed at value seekers and don't have the built in base of collectors that a worldwide site like eBay has. So it's a trade off. 

It sucks that happened, but it's a crash course in how eBay's return system works. 

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

The short answer is that your best bet is to do the following:

1 - Offer the buyer a partial refund through the case for a similar amount to what a return label will cost you. If they accept this, the case is resolved.

2 - If they decline the offer, provide a return shipping label through the case (you can purchase a USPS label on Chit Chats).

The reason you want to do 1 is because if you accept a return, you have to re-sell the watch again. You're already out the original cost of shipping the item. Now you have to take the time to do another sale. Yes, it sucks to offer a discount to a buyer who you believe is acting in bad faith, but purely from a pragmatic POV offering them a refund saves you time and costs the same as a return label. I would go as far as to say it might be worth it to offer slightly more than the cost of the label just to avoid the headache of a return.

If you're a high volume seller, the above might not be a concern since it takes a lot less time for someone who makes hundreds of sales a month to re-list and ship an additional item. If I am suspicious a buyer is acting in bad faith, I will usually request a return because most of the time they won't use the label and the case will lapse. If I can verify I caused the issue, I will do what the buyer thinks is fair because it was my fault.

For the case to be resolved, the buyer either needs to accept the partial refund by the deadline (not just have you send it), or you need to send a label. What you absolutely do not want to do is ignore the case. Otherwise, the buyer will get a refund and keep the watch. If the deadline is coming, and the case is still open, simply provide a label.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

You're selling in a high risk category with an account that will appeal to scammers because you only have double digit feedback.

Scammers usually look for accounts with low feedback ratings, with the idea being that they don't know eBay's policies and can be tricked into common scams (send to a different address, not providing a label for a return, etc).

For most categories, people will tell you that problems are like 1 in 100 orders, and that's being generous. It's probably closer to 1 in 200 or 1 in 300. They also aren't all "scams", it can be just a normal problem that comes with e-commerce. With that said, selling 3 or 4 figure items on an account with single or double-digit feedback, you're going to be a magnet for trouble. I would try to stick to items that qualify for eBay's Guaranteed Authentic program, because at least that way you have another shield of liability against fraud. I don't know if watches qualify yet. 

[recped]

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@myk221 wrote:

It wasn't way when we had PayPal

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Yes it was, exactly the same,  at least since the Money Back Gurantee (or the previous name for it) since at least 2008.