Seller here - Unfair ebay return/refund policy biased to buyer?

[oceanfreak20]

Wanted to understand from other sellers if you/they also have similar feedback/observations with ebay.

Sold a player and this buyer opened a return request for reason being that player expects users to have paid subscription which he/she asked me to cover as partial refund which i denied as my listing had clear description/conditions that item is not returnable in such cases. Still ebay decided in buyer's favor & i had to accept the return meaning i pay for return shipping charge $100+ and i lose $130+ in this transaction once i receive the item. I spoke to ebay several times explaining this buyer is simply abusing policy but to my surprise, they did not even do anything but asked me to accept return.

Have you also come across this situation? what do you guys do in such situations? just accept the loss?

[pjcdn2005]

When a buyer opens a return using a reason that suggests the item wasn't as described here really aren't any options other than accepting a return and sending a label or refunding without a return.   eBay expects buyer and seller to work things out on their own and they don't investigate to see if the buyer is telling the truth or deserves a refund.  You could have denied the partial refund and then accepted the return but if ebay decided in ebay's favour they must have been asked to step in. Once that happens you receive a defect and do not get your fees credited back.

There are certain seller protections for TRS sellers.  If you had accepted the return, once you had refunded you could have reported the buyer for misusing money back guarantee if the item actually was as described. After you reported the buyer,  if ebay agreed with you they would have refunded you up to $8 for return shipping. I realize that's not a lot of help in your case but it's something.  But since ebay was asked to step in you won't be able to use those 'protections'.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345&st=3&pos=1&query=Selle...

[rocketscollectibles]

If it's item not as described there is nothing you can do. You can report buyer once delivered back. But if it's truly not as described, buyer do not abuse here, saying 'no return' in your listings do not bypass ebay rules. 

Why not agreeing on a partial refund if return cost you so much? 

[reallynicestamps]

No Returns does not mean No Refunds.

They are even spelled differently.

No Returns means you never want to see the item again.

But you will still be refunding an unhappy customer.

Pay for the return shipping, get it back, refund, rewrite the description to reflect the need for a subscription, relist, resell.

And accept returns.

Many customers will go to their charge cards if they think the seller will be difficult to deal with.

EBay only allows a 30 day window, cards can easily be six months for Claims.

If the buyer does not return the item, when you have sent shipping, you don't have to refund.

You can buy USPS labels through Shippo at a discount. Some US sellers think you will not be able to do that and they will then win the Dispute.

i pay for return shipping charge $100+ and i lose $130+ in this transaction once i receive the item

Not every transaction will go perfectly.

Your loss is not the original payment+ return shipping but your original costs (procurement +packaging) and the return shipping.

That should be less than $130 if you are doing this right.

[oceanfreak20]

Just to clarify, the buyer is clearly not returning due to listing conflict as my listing was transparent enough & **bleep** clear and here, this buyer clearly did not do enough research about the player and bought. Simply, it is expecting a paid subscription but this buyer wanted to enjoy free which is not guaranteed by that company and it is a big joke that though the buyer put clearly item is functional, he wanted to return for full refund, ebay entertained it. This was my main dissapointment as i try to be utmost honest in all my listings. ebay just told me no way i could have declined return and here I am 😉 lost money just because a specific buyer abused my listing and i am paying the price now.

[reallynicestamps]

Please post the number of the listing, since we can only go by what you are saying.

There is no "player" showing as sold on this ID in the past three months.

You can have a No Returns policy, but you cannot have a No Refunds policy.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

eBay doesn't arbitrate individual return cases. 

As a seller, you're required to resolve the return with a label or refund. It's up to you to choose which you prefer, or to negotiate a partial refund that the buyer is happy with.

If you don't resolve the case, the buyer can ask eBay to step in. What this means is that the buyer will get a refund, and they will keep the item. In addition, your account will receive a defect.

In a situation where it is clear the customer is acting in bad-faith, you can use the report buyer feature to report them. If enough sellers report the same buyer, eBay will usually remove them from the Buyer Protection program. 

eBay will also sometimes credit long time sellers for a refund in situations where the buyer is blatantly at fault or dishonest. This is a very YMMV type thing. You still have to resolve the case with a refund. It just means that if you contact eBay after and explain, they may take mercy on you and credit you for the refund. This isn't a regular thing that would happen every time.

There are also mechanisms to hold back part of the refund based on the customer damaging the item or other issues. I am unsure how eBay regulates this and what burden of proof you would have to provide if the customer contested you holding back the refund. 

Ultimately, time is money. Unless you sell in a very high risk category, you won't have a lot of returns. The best way to resolve it is usually whatever is most efficient. You obviously don't want to roll over to a complete scam. What I am saying is, in a situation where it is clearly the fault of the customer, refund or print the return label, and move on. Your time has value and unless it is a genuine issue where you can resolve it for the customer somehow, the transaction is a sunk cost.

eBay's current system is fine if you're a full time seller with lots of volume. It can make it a bit difficult to be a garage sale type seller who wants to get rid of their old stuff because if you only sell one or two things a month, one sale going badly (through your fault or not) can cost you more than whatever you recoup on your items you sell. Local classified sites tend to be better for lower volume or casual sellers. 

[oceanfreak20]

Well, received this item as returned from this buyer and when i opened, one of the Antennas is broken/damaged. Definitely it was not the case when he/she received it otherwise he/she would have reported it. Contacted ebay few times about this reporting damaged item but case is closed already not in my favor. This is really frustrating. Any suggestions what are my options now? Very painful inside as honestly if we are 100% confident that we are genuine (from sellers) & someone is abusing the process, just heart-broken.

[flipistics]

Can you even purchase a streaming subscription to them now? Didn't their streaming service go belly up a few months ago?

As for the antenna, you could probably just get some replacement ones pretty cheap as long as it didn't damage the connector on the device. It might not be 100% original, but they should still work exactly as expected. Get slightly larger ones and call them an upgrade 😀.

Best advice I have is to try not to take it personally and always accept the return. You appear to be top rated, so if you had accepted the return properly you could have examined it when you got it back, found the damage, and reduced the refund by an appropriate amount. It's one of the top rated perks.

[oceanfreak20]

But ebay just refunded him/her fully even after I reported damage and i wasn't given any choice at all. Thats the concern. 

[flipistics]

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@oceanfreak20 wrote:

But ebay just refunded him/her fully even after I reported damage and i wasn't given any choice at all. Thats the concern. 

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Did you try to send a refund to the buyer, or did you simply report the damage in the case and wait for eBay to make a decision? If you wait for eBay to make a decision, the bots will rule against you. If you're top rated for the region you sent the item to, when you go to refund the buyer you should have the option.

[oceanfreak20]

Yes, in fact i had reported the damage with pics as soon as I got the package and spoke to ebay immediately when they said they will investigate & respond. But then they said case was closed with full refund to buyer and nothing that I can do for damage package. This is the most frustrating experience I ve ever had in last few years with my transparency/genuinity in all my listings. Moreover i sell in ebay mainly to get rid of my personal/pre-owned collection for loss with an exception of of course few new items here & there. That's why I can't just digest something like this happened. So, overall, i have lost $175 (plus already item's price refunded/deducted from me) in addition to the item price just to cover his/her shipping cost + custom fee. 

[pjcdn2005]

You should be able to recover some of the custom fees from Canada Border Services since this was a return.

As mentioned earlier a TRS should be able to refund up to 50% if the item was returned in a different condition. According to the help pages you should have seen the option on the refund page before eBay stepped in and ruled on the case.   If you didn't see this option than it might have been because you do not often returns.  On .com they require TRS to have at least 30 days returns in other to take advantage of that protection but the ,ca page does not specify that.  You should report the buyer using the following link before deducting part of the refund.          https://spd.ebay.ca/RBASellerHub

Protections for Top Rated and Above Standard sellers

Top Rated and Above Standard sellers who reside in Canada are protected on items listed on eBay.ca when:

A buyer falsely claims an item was not as described

If the report qualifies:

• We will subsidize the return shipping label cost up to $8.00 per return for any false claim filed by a buyer that an item was not as described
  • The subsidy will be credited on your monthly invoice
  • For transactions to be eligible you must report the buyer
  • Credits will be applied where we determine the buyer made a false claim
• We will also automatically remove negative and neutral feedback, defects, and open cases in service metrics

An item is returned after it was used or damaged by the buyer

• You can deduct up to 50% from the refund to recover the lost value of the item
• We will work directly with the buyer to resolve any issues associated with the item being returned, including removing any negative and neutral feedback, defects, and open cases in service metrics

If eBay steps in to help at any stage, you'll no longer be able to deduct an amount from the buyer's refund. Learn more about refunding the buyer.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345&st=3&pos=1&query=Selle...

devon@ebay 

On .com in order to use the seller protection that I posted above a TRS is required to offer a minimum of 30 days buyer paid returns and it specifies that the seller should first report the buyer.   On.ca that is not specified. In fact  that part of the page suggests that trs and above standard sellers can use that protection if an item is returned damaged.  It does not mention that returns must be offered or that the buyer should first be reported using that link. Does that mean that returns are not required to qualify fit that protection? Does it also apply to above standard as the info states or just trs?      In my understanding it should just apply to trs that offer returns IF it is the same as .com rules.

To confuse things, later on that page the information suggests that ANY seller can qualify for those protections if they have free returns.   In my understanding that should say that above standard sellers can qualify if they have free returns.(trs do not need to have free returns).   Should it not also mention that buyer should be reported first and that below standard sellers do not qualify?  If you compare the seller protection page on.com and,ca it looks as if the .ca page didn't get changed properly when these policies came in as the info is contradicting. 

Protections for all sellers

Abusive buying activity

When we determine that a buyer has violated the abusive buyer policy, we will remove any feedback and defects posted by that buyer, including opened cases in service metrics. For abusive buyers, we may also limit the ability to file return requests on the eBay site. In serious cases or repeated abusive behavior, we may suspend the buyer's account.

You can help us by reporting the buyer and clearly describing what they are doing. This will help us investigate potential policy violations and take actions to protect you.

See the abusive buyer policy for buyer behavior that is not allowed.

An item is returned after it was used or damaged by the buyer

Sellers who offer free returns and who are not Below Standard are eligible for this protection

• You can deduct up to 50% from the refund to recover the lost value of the item
• We will take care of any issues directly with the buyer for you, including removing any negative and neutral feedback, defects, and open cases in service metrics

If eBay steps in to help at any stage, you'll no longer be able to deduct an amount from the buyer's refund. Learn more about refunding the buyer.