eBay

pierrelebel · ‎04-22-2015

In the "good old days" eBay.ca has always recommended listing in US$ instead of Cdn$ on the basis that Canadian sellers would have more chance of success listing in US$.

Times are changing.

Today, during the Weekly Board Hour, eBay.ca advises:

"In a nutshell, according to our analysis, all Canadian sellers would either see a positive or neutral impact on their sales if they start listing in CAD. Essentially, our old data that suggested better sales for USD listings has been disproved. The SYI will be modified shortly to reflect this reality, and we've made the changes to the quick listing tool last week.

Additionally, we've started engaging with large Canadian merchants to recommend that they also list in CAD if possible."

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-23-2015

You mentioned in another post that the location Canada now shows on the search page. The format has varied but it has been possible to have the seller's country shown up on that page as long as I can remember.

Yes it has varied, but has never been as prominent nor as large that I can recall. Now it's very, very noticeable.

That's a bad thing? I want buyers to know where I am located before they make the decision to purchase from me. I definitely don't see it as a sinister sign as you suggested in post 22.

cumos55 · ‎04-23-2015

In 2013.. my US and Canadian prices were about equal... for each listing

After recent adjustments.... my Canadian sellers are paying the same as they would have paid in 2013.

However, my US buyers have the perception that my prices are lower today than two years ago... and they are buying more.

My listings ...... in US dollars are making that impression on eBay.com... all of my listings are in US dollars.

It is not known whether I can create that same perception on eBay.com if I were listing in Canadian dollars.

Right now it is important for me to be selling in US dollars..... and the way potential US buyers view my listings.

Canadian buyers see the difference between the US and Canadian price.... and understand why there is a difference..... and they continue to buy

Because to them nothing has changed from two years ago....

How buyers perceive my prices is important.

--

We should go back to a time when the exchange rate was close to $1.50 Canadian to $1.00 US.

Rarely have we experienced a US dollar that was lower than the Canadian dollar.... That was at about $0.90 US to $1.00 Canadian... a few years back

Selling in US dollars, when the Canadian dollar is valued higher than the US dollar makes the selling of items on eBay.com relatively easy... simply on the basis of perception by buyers on eBay.com.

Selling in US dollars makes a comparison of prices among listings on eBay.com very easy

My number of sales to US buyers is up... while sales to Canadian buyers remains relatively constant, compared to 2014.

rose-dee · ‎04-24-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:

Some sellers may use US$ funds in their PayPal account and pay their eBay fees that way. Then no conversion takes place but ultimately, the seller may end up paying more money for the service.,

For example, the listing fee for many sellers is $0.30 (I understand different sellers have different fee schedule).
Your listing price may be Cdn$ 25.00 or US$ 20.00
If you list in Cdn$, you will be charged Cdn$ 0.30
If you list in US$, you will be charged US$0.30 - which, regardless how you pay your fees, will ultimately cost you more than having paid Cdn$ 0.30 for the same service.

I'm not sure we're on the same page on this subject. I'm certain listing/upgrade fees are converted from $US to $Cdn on eBay's billing (assuming a seller is billed in $Cdn).

I have a store and rarely pay additional listing fees, so I wasn't able to find an example of a listing fee in my own billing. (Actually, I list in $US, but pay my eBay account in $Cdn, so I benefit from the 20-25% exchange difference, minus the Paypal conversion fees of course). What I was able to find was an upgrade fee, which is probably just as good for illustration purposes.

On my item, currently listed at $42.00 US, the "Gallery Plus" fee on my account was shown as $1.28 Cdn, converted from the $1.00 US charge. I assume the same conversion would apply to regular listing fees (i.e. a $0.20 US fee would be converted to $0.26 Cdn on my bill -- in fact I'm certain I recall seeing this figure when I did incur a listing fee).

Now, if I were to list this particular item in $Cdn, I'd be listing it at roughly the equivalent = $53.76 Cdn ($42.00 x 1.28), not $42.00 Cdn.

So, these are my calculations based on the listing upgrade only (I'm ignoring Paypal conversion fees for the moment, and using eBay's ca. 1.28 US/Cdn exchange rate, rounded to the nearest cent):

Listing Amount Listing Fee ("Gallery Plus") FVF on sale (at 9%) Total fees (converted to $Cdn)

1) List in $US, pay bill in $US:

$ 42.00 US $1.00 US $ 3.78 US $ 6.12 Cdn

2) List in $US, pay bill in $Cdn:

$ 42.00 US $ 1.28 Cdn $ 3.78US = $4.84 Cdn $ 6.12 Cdn

3) List in $Cdn, pay bill in $US:

$ 53.76 Cdn $ 1.00 US $ 3.78 US (ignoring slight rounding diff.)

($53.76 x 9% x 0.78 exchange) $ 6.12 Cdn

4) List in $Cdn, pay bill in $Cdn:

$ 53.76 Cdn $1.28 Cdn $4.84 ($53.76 x 9%) $6.12 Cdn

5) List in $Cdn, pay bill in $Cdn:

$ 42.00 $1.28 Cdn $3.78 Cdn. $5.06 Cdn, plus

$11.76 diff. (loss) in list price = $16.82 total cost

It seems to me that whether you take 9% of the US dollar price, or 9% of the converted $Cdn item price and then convert the fee amount to $US, you get the same result. The only way to reduce the fees would be to list the item at less than the $Cdn equivalent, but the actual loss would be larger in any case.

Using your example, I would think that if you list an item for $20 US, you'll see a charge of $0.30 US on your eBay account if you're billed in $US, but you'll see $0.38 ($0.30 x 1.28) if you're being billed in $Cdn.

Conversely, if you list the same item for $25 Cdn, you'll be billed a listing fee of $0.38 $Cdn on your account.

Either way, when you convert your $US sales to $Cdn, it appears to me you'd be paying the same amount on your bill (less the Paypal conversion fees of course -- I haven't taken these into account for the sake of simplicity).

If I'm missing something, or have made an error in the above assumptions, please correct me because I'd like to clarify this. It looks to me from the above as if eBay has it all figured out so they can't lose, as usual.

pierrelebel · ‎04-24-2015

"Conversely, if you list the same item for $25 Cdn, you'll be billed a listing fee of $0.38 $Cdn on your account."

Sorry that is not correct.

Please take the time to review the eBay.ca fee schedule carefully

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/fees.html

Specifically: "(in C$ or US$)"

As I stated yesterday, if you list in US$, the fee will be US$0.30 or appx Cdn$ 0.38

If you list in Cdn$, the fee will be Cdn$ 0.30 (not Cdn$ 0.38 as stated in your post)

The currency used to pay your seller account (Cdn$ or US$) is irrelevant in this case. The listing (and all option) fee is charged in the currency the seller selects for the listing. If the billing currency is different than listing currency, then eBay will convert the amount accordingly. So if your billing currency is US$, that Cdn$ 0.30 listing fee will be charged only appx US$0.25

pierrelebel · ‎04-24-2015

" I list in $US, but pay my eBay account in $Cdn, so I benefit from the 20-25% exchange difference,"

???

Please take a few minutes to review your eBay invoice as your statement does not reflect the eBay billing reality.

If you have a fee of US$10.00 for example, and your billing currency is Cdn$, eBay will bill you appx Cdn$12.50 for that US$10.00 fee. You do NOT "benefit from the exchange differential"

rosscd57 · ‎04-24-2015

Pierre, if you list in US Dollars and your PayPal account is in Canadian Dollars - are you charged a fee to convert those US dollars to Canadian when you sell something.

__________________________________________________________

Old enough to know better. Young enough to do it again. Crazy enough to try

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-24-2015

I'm billed in U.S. dollars now but I am sure that when I was billed in Cdn and listed in U.S. they charge a conversion fee when they took out the money to pay my monthly invoice.

If you are selling in U.S. it doesn't make sense to me to be billed in Canadian because the less often your money has to be converted, the better.

pierrelebel · ‎04-24-2015

"the less often your money has to be converted, the better."

Amen, sister!

pierrelebel · ‎04-24-2015

"if you list in US Dollars and your PayPal account is in Canadian Dollars"

Wrong question.

The real question is: What is the billing currency at eBay?

If your billing currency at eBay is in US$, then there will be a currency conversion fee when PayPal pays eBay (I never ever recommended anyone pay their eBay fees with PayPal).

If your billing currency at eBay is in Cdn$, there will be no currency conversion fee as eBay converts those US$ in your seller account into Cdn$ using the wholesale conversion rate (no conversion fee). Since the money from PayPal also comes in Cdn$, then no additional conversion fee is charged. However, you will have already paid the conversion fee to PayPal when the money was transferred from the US$ sale into your Canadian dollar balance.

However, while it is important and beneficial to minimize conversion fees, I am of the strong opinion sellers should not use PayPal to pay their eBay fees. It adds a level of bookkeeping complication when preparing your books for tax purposes.

I find it much easier to have eBay charge your fees to a credit card (your choice of US$ or Cdn$ depending on your specific circumstances). Preferably one would get a credit card account for that specific purpose. On one hand you get an extra 30 days cash flow from the credit card issuer and most cards offer rewards (AirMiles, cash back, etc...). Over the years I have accumulated tens of thousands of AirMiles paying my eBay fees through my BMO Airmiles MasterCard. It is pure gravy!

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-24-2015

I find it much easier to have eBay charge your fees to a credit card (your choice of US$ or Cdn$ depending on your specific circumstances). Preferably one would get a credit card account for that specific purpose. On one hand you get an extra 30 days cash flow from the credit card issuer and most cards offer rewards (AirMiles, cash back, etc...). Over the years I have accumulated tens of thousands of AirMiles paying my eBay fees through my BMO Airmiles MasterCard. It is pure gravy!

That's a great idea. That does make me think about listing and being billed in Canadian dollars so that it would be easier to take advantage of that.

I do have a U.S. dollar credit card from a Canadian bank. But if I were to pay my fees billed in U.S. dollars with that credit card, I would still have to use Canadian dollars to pay off the credit card since I don't have a U.S. bank account. I really should do some research to see if there is any way to open an account from here as I'm too far from the border to go to the U.S. just to do that. Or, do you have any other solutions?

Right now I pay my fees with the American dollars that buyers have paid me so there is no conversion fee. If I were to pay those fees with my Canadian funds cc which does have aeroplan miles, I don't know if the air miles would make up for the conversion rate...I'm guessing that they wouldn't.

pierrelebel · ‎04-24-2015

" since I don't have a U.S. bank account"

That is the rub.

In 2000, soon after PayPal started offering its service to Canadians, like many eBay sellers I opened a bank account in the USA (TD-Waterhouse at the time - changed to TD Bank (USA) many years ago). I also had a US dollar denominated account at my local BMO branch.

Funds denominated in US$ could be withdrawn from Billpoint and PayPal - no fee - directly to my US$ account in the USA. Once a month so so I would write myself a check (US spelling) and deposit into my US dollar denominated account held at BMO. That account would be used to pay my eBay fees (my billing currency at the time was US$) through my BMO US$ MasterCard (earning AirMiles).

Now, this goes back at a time (beginning of this century) where many buyers, including Americans, did not yet trust online payment services and would send personal checks (US spelling) or money orders. It made sense at the time to maintain two US$ accounts, one on each side of the border. My US account was also used to pay my many American suppliers. The point was to avoid currency conversion on both buying and selling, therefore cutting expenses and maximizing profits.

From time to time (every two or three months) I would convert US$ into Cdn$ but the spread (fee) paid to the bank was very low as the amounts were substantial enough ($35,000+) to get a better than "retail" rate.

I am now retired, concentrate on liquidating my remaining inventory on a part-time basis and find it easier to keep most transactions in Cdn$. I no longer purchase inventory so that need is gone. Listing and selling mostly in Cdn$ minimizes my currency conversion fees.

I list in Cdn$, I pay my fees in Cdn$, I receive the proceeds of my sales in Cdn$, I pay my living expenses and taxes in Cdn$.

Life is much slower and easier now.

"I pay my fees with the American dollars that buyers have paid me so there is no conversion fee"

That is one way to minimize conversion fee when proceeds from sales are in US$

rose-dee · ‎04-25-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
"Conversely, if you list the same item for $25 Cdn, you'll be billed a listing fee of $0.38 $Cdn on your account."

Sorry that is not correct.
Please take the time to review the eBay.ca fee schedule carefully
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/fees.html

Specifically: "(in C$ or US$)"
As I stated yesterday, if you list in US$, the fee will be US$0.30 or appx Cdn$ 0.38
If you list in Cdn$, the fee will be Cdn$ 0.30 (not Cdn$ 0.38 as stated in your post)

The currency used to pay your seller account (Cdn$ or US$) is irrelevant in this case. The listing (and all option) fee is charged in the currency the seller selects for the listing. If the billing currency is different than listing currency, then eBay will convert the amount accordingly. So if your billing currency is US$, that Cdn$ 0.30 listing fee will be charged only appx US$0.25

Thanks for posting that link, which I've taken a close look at. It shows fees on auction-style listings, and both listing fees and upgrades are identical in $Cdn and $US.

Does this apply to fixed price listings also? Do you know why eBay charges listing fees in this manner (i.e., giving Canadian listings an apparent break on fees)? Is it because eBay makes less money on the FVFs when a $Cdn listing sells (as compared to the same $US listing price)? Or, like the free .cafr, is it a perquisite that the eBay Canada people got for us?

I've quite honestly never taken such a careful look at my eBay billings. Now I'm really curious about what eBay is doing and why.

My own bill (I have a store), which I pay in $Cdn, shows all my upgrade fees (and listing fees when I do incur them) as converted from the $US amount. This would be in line with your comment that listing fees are charged based on the currency in which an item is listed (I list only in $US), not in which the fees are billed. As I mentioned, an example is the $1.00 Gallery Plus upgrade, which is currently charged at $1.28 on my bills.

So, if I understand correctly, you are saying that a seller who lists in $Cdn will save money on listing fees whether the seller is billed in $Cdn or $US? Will they also save money on store subscription (monthly) fees and FVFs for the same reason? I don't understand how the latter would work. Since, as I've said, I have a store, I rarely pay additional listing fees anyway. I'm going to have to check to see how my store fee is billed -- I thought it was converted from the $US amount, but I could be wrong.

I know that my FVFs are converted from $US to $Cdn when I'm billed. However I assumed that if I listed in $Cdn (for example, a $100 US item at $128 Cdn) my FVFs would be identical because the FVF percentage would be applied to the already-converted $Cdn listing price (so in my case, 9% x $100 US = $9.00 US = $11.52 Cdn; or 9% x $128 Cdn = $11.52). Or are FVFs calculated differently for $Cdn listings?

I apologize for all these queries, but I would like to be clear on this aspect of eBay's billing system, as I'm sure many others would. I have really never taken so critical a look at eBay billing before.

rose-dee · ‎04-25-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I do have a U.S. dollar credit card from a Canadian bank. But if I were to pay my fees billed in U.S. dollars with that credit card, I would still have to use Canadian dollars to pay off the credit card since I don't have a U.S. bank account. I really should do some research to see if there is any way to open an account from here as I'm too far from the border to go to the U.S. just to do that. Or, do you have any other solutions?

You don't need to go over the border to open a $US account. You can open a US dollar business account at the Royal Bank (and I imagine other chartered banks offer similar accounts). I had one years ago when it made sense to do so.

Check the fine print carefully as there are fees attached that may not benefit your situation (or may actually end up costing you more than conversion rates) unless your volumes are high enough. Go to the Royal Bank online site and type "US business account" in the search box for the details.

rose-dee · ‎04-25-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
" I list in $US, but pay my eBay account in $Cdn, so I benefit from the 20-25% exchange difference,"
???
Please take a few minutes to review your eBay invoice as your statement does not reflect the eBay billing reality.
If you have a fee of US$10.00 for example, and your billing currency is Cdn$, eBay will bill you appx Cdn$12.50 for that US$10.00 fee. You do NOT "benefit from the exchange differential"

Pierre, I think you misunderstood my statement (or perhaps I expressed it poorly). I was speaking in a broader sense. What I meant was that while my $US item listing prices remain the same, the $Cdn has been fluctuating in my favour. As it goes down (or remains down), the value of the items I sell (in relation to the $Cdn) go up (or stay up).

Accordingly, that currency differential is presently covering a lot of my expenses, including my monthly eBay bill. It also has allowed me to avoid raising my $US item prices this year. Granted, if the $Cdn rises again to closer to par with the US dollar, I won't be benefiting, and may have to raise my $US pricing.

For example, an item that I offered 2 years ago at a $17.00 US price is still being listed at $17.00 US. However, 2 years ago I was getting about $17.00 Cdn (ignoring FVFs and conversion fees for the moment) when I sold it. Today I would be getting roughly $21.00 Cdn for that same item.

That extra ca. 20% on every item sold is helping to cover a lot of costs, and permitting me to not only keep my $US prices stable, but also to continue offering subsidized (or free) shipping to my customers.

So yes, although I'm paying $12.50 Cdn for a $10.00 US eBay fee, the money I'm earning at the selling end has increased substantially due to the currency differential. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, there are still some other very good reasons for me not to list my items in $Cdn.

Now I need to figure out whether paying my eBay bill in $Cdn makes sense. I pay my eBay account from my $US Paypal balance each month, which means I'm paying to convert money needlessly it seems.

Incidentally, I just looked at my eBay bill, and I'm being charged $15.95 Cdn per month for my store (Basic) subscription. I wonder if that would be converted to ca. $12.75 US if I were paying my eBay account in $US dollars?

ricarmic · ‎04-25-2015

Hi Rose!

A comment, some of the Canadian "US Banks" cheques will not work with some American banks (ie the casher gets charged for cashing an international cheque). That is why I had to drive over the border to open a US based US bank account, otherwise when I sent my US cheques to US folks from my "Canadian" US bank account, they got extra charges when they cashed the cheque.

Now having said this that was many years ago, so things might be better now.

I have so few people left that don't take paypal anymore, I hardly write US cheques anyway...

I'm also not sure how PAYPAL regards a US$ account in a "Canadian" bank - in the olden days I couldn't send my US$ to my "Canadian" US$ bank account, it had to go in as $C to a $C account.

I haven't had to experiment as I've retained the US based bank account anyway so I keep a bit of $$$ in it and I can send US$ directly to it.

rose-dee · ‎04-25-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
You mentioned in another post that the location Canada now shows on the search page. The format has varied but it has been possible to have the seller's country shown up on that page as long as I can remember.
Yes it has varied, but has never been as prominent nor as large that I can recall. Now it's very, very noticeable.
That's a bad thing? I want buyers to know where I am located before they make the decision to purchase from me. I definitely don't see it as a sinister sign as you suggested in post 22.

For me it is a bad thing in search results. I feel US buyers are apt to pass by obviously non-US sellers in searches, or will at least be more likely to click through on US seller items. Why would I want my item to appear "foreign" to a potential US buyer at that critical point of decision? I think we know what American buyers' preferences are in that respect.

If a potential buyer is interested enough in the item to click through, then location does become important, in terms of shipping and other expectations. There -- on the listing itself -- I appreciate having my location displayed clearly. But not at the first glance, where that one opportunity to capture a buyer's interest may be lost.

As an aside, I often find myself doing the same thing on searches when I see "China" or "Customs included... (GSP)" -- I just skip over those items.

I doubt most buyers filter search results immediately for location unless there's a good reason, so having "Canada" displayed in such a large typeface on the primary search screen is to my mind, at best, of no benefit at all to Canadian sellers, and at worst a real handicap, unless they are targeting primarily Canadian buyers.

pierrelebel · ‎04-25-2015

"Do you know why eBay charges listing fees in this manner ..."

Yes.

It is more convenient!

A long time ago, they were different fee schedules.

A few years back, Canadians were complaining it was unfair since both currencies traded at more or less the same values - give or take 10%. So eBay.ca adopted the same fee schedule as eBay.com. When the Canadian dollar is weaker than the US dollar - as we have for the last two years - Canadians listing in Cdn$ get a bit of a bargain.

I am not aware of anyone complaining about it..... yet!

Should the value of the Canadian dollar keeps getting down in relation to the US dollar, it is quite possible the folks in San Jose will advise their Toronto office to increase fees priced in Canadian dollars so that eBay Inc does not suffer a loss in exchange rate differentials. And then we will all complain about it.

rose-dee · ‎04-25-2015

@ricarmic wrote:
Hi Rose!

A comment, some of the Canadian "US Banks" cheques will not work with some American banks (ie the casher gets charged for cashing an international cheque). That is why I had to drive over the border to open a US based US bank account, otherwise when I sent my US cheques to US folks from my "Canadian" US bank account, they got extra charges when they cashed the cheque.

Now having said this that was many years ago, so things might be better now.
I have so few people left that don't take paypal anymore, I hardly write US cheques anyway...

I'm also not sure how PAYPAL regards a US$ account in a "Canadian" bank - in the olden days I couldn't send my US$ to my "Canadian" US$ bank account, it had to go in as $C to a $C account.

I haven't had to experiment as I've retained the US based bank account anyway so I keep a bit of $$$ in it and I can send US$ directly to it.

Yes, I imagine there are still some restrictions and complications involved in using a $US account within Canada. That's why I think one would need to read the terms, conditions and fee information very, very carefully before plunging into it.

Your comment about Paypal and $US accounts at Canadian banks is interesting -- I wonder if it's possible to link a US dollar account at a Cdn bank to Paypal and have all transactions for eBay bill payments (billed in $US) go through directly, $US to $US? It seems the Royal Bank charges a minimum $9 monthly fee (plus other fees) for US dollar accounts, so the volume would have to justify the cost. For me, at the dollar volumes I have currently, it's not worth it.

However, after all this discussion I'm thinking that switching to paying my eBay bill in $US directly from my $US Paypal balance might save a few dollars in conversion fees.

This whole eBay billing/conversion/currency exchange business is complicated, even on a small scale!

pierrelebel · ‎04-25-2015

"I'm being charged $15.95 Cdn per month for my store "

That is because you opened your eBay store on eBay.ca.

If the store had been opened on eBay.com, you would be charged US$15.95.

rose-dee · ‎04-25-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
"I'm being charged $15.95 Cdn per month for my store "

That is because you opened your eBay store on eBay.ca.

If the store had been opened on eBay.com, you would be charged US$15.95.

So would that mean that if I switched to paying my eBay bills in $US, I'd be paying the equivalent in $US (roughly $12.75 US), or the actual US fee? I think I'm getting more, not less confused.