What do seller do these days when a new buyer buys an item and someone else pay for it?

[dutchman48]

I am getting paranoid due to Ebay and Paypal regulations.

A new buyer buys a $100 + item and then someone else pays for it.

Would this qualify for an unauthorized charge back by the person that pays?

I have had 3 of these recently.

[femmefan1946]

What do you mean 'someone else pays for it'?

It's not uncommon for a PP account to be in the name of one family member but used by several.

Either that or a lot of men are buying sewing patterns for plus size dresses.

You ship to the address on the Paypal payment.

You don't ship until you see a payment in your PP account.

I'm not clear on how an unauthorized person would get the PP address to make a payment for someone else.

If you are really concerned, you can cancel the transaction using "problem with address".

[hlmacdon]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

I am getting paranoid due to Ebay and Paypal regulations.

A new buyer buys a $100 + item and then someone else pays for it.

Would this qualify for an unauthorized charge back by the person that pays?

I have had 3 of these recently.

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Every transaction can be subject to an unauthorized chargeback. It isn't uncommon for buyers to ship to another address, whether that be for gifts, international transactions/forwarding, etc. Follow paypal's rules and get signature confirmation where required. If you ship untracked you are always at risk. Ultimately it's down to how much effort paypal puts into contesting a chargeback. If you have tracking and signature confirmation where required then you are generally fine as they cover those pretty much 100% of the time. If it is a guest account checkout they are removing chargeback protection.

[dutchman48]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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@dutchman48 wrote:

I am getting paranoid due to Ebay and Paypal regulations.

A new buyer buys a $100 + item and then someone else pays for it.

Would this qualify for an unauthorized charge back by the person that pays?

I have had 3 of these recently.

---

Every transaction can be subject to an unauthorized chargeback. It isn't uncommon for buyers to ship to another address, whether that be for gifts, international transactions/forwarding, etc. Follow paypal's rules and get signature confirmation where required. If you ship untracked you are always at risk. Ultimately it's down to how much effort paypal puts into contesting a chargeback. If you have tracking and signature confirmation where required then you are generally fine as they cover those pretty much 100% of the time. If it is a guest account checkout they are removing chargeback protection.

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You sound like an Ebay employee with all the tracking.

To use tracking I would have to add at least $12 to every order which makes no sense as it would kill my sales worse than they are now.

My concern is not tracking or having tracking but if A buys, and B pays, can B file for unauthorized use that they did not buy and never authorized the purchase.

We no longer get they buyers address so we have no way of knowing any info any more other than a shipping address for whoever pays.

Do any sellers even care anymore?

[hlmacdon]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

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You sound like an Ebay employee with all the tracking.

To use tracking I would have to add at least $12 to every order which makes no sense as it would kill my sales worse than they are now.

My concern is not tracking or having tracking but if A buys, and B pays, can B file for unauthorized use that they did not buy and never authorized the purchase.

We no longer get they buyers address so we have no way of knowing any info any more other than a shipping address for whoever pays. 

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I only mention tracking as I've been on the receiving end of chargebacks in the past (which have increased in frequency over the last 1-2 years) and that is really the only thing that covers you (along with sig confirmation). Out of all the unauthorized use chargebacks I've encountered I've only seen paypal win once, presumably because the buyer paid with paypal funds and they had matching IP addresses from previous transactions.

With paypal any payment can be subject to unauthorized use claims. The buyer can either initiate that directly with paypal directly or through their bank or credit card company depending on the funding source. This is the downside to payment systems like paypal compared to a traditional merchant account with a credit card processor as you have no ability as a merchant to do any real fraud detection. Personally I find that paypal puts little effort into contesting chargebacks and rarely looks at any "evidence" you provide as a seller. If you use tracking they have now completely removed the seller's ability to upload any documentation.

[dutchman48]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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@dutchman48 wrote:

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You sound like an Ebay employee with all the tracking.

To use tracking I would have to add at least $12 to every order which makes no sense as it would kill my sales worse than they are now.

My concern is not tracking or having tracking but if A buys, and B pays, can B file for unauthorized use that they did not buy and never authorized the purchase.

We no longer get they buyers address so we have no way of knowing any info any more other than a shipping address for whoever pays. 

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I only mention tracking as I've been on the receiving end of chargebacks in the past (which have increased in frequency over the last 1-2 years) and that is really the only thing that covers you (along with sig confirmation). Out of all the unauthorized use chargebacks I've encountered I've only seen paypal win once, presumably because the buyer paid with paypal funds and they had matching IP addresses from previous transactions.

With paypal any payment can be subject to unauthorized use claims. The buyer can either initiate that directly with paypal directly or through their bank or credit card company depending on the funding source. This is the downside to payment systems like paypal compared to a traditional merchant account with a credit card processor as you have no ability as a merchant to do any real fraud detection. Personally I find that paypal puts little effort into contesting chargebacks and rarely looks at any "evidence" you provide as a seller. If you use tracking they have now completely removed the seller's ability to upload any documentation.

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Better yet, can A file INR as it was sent to B?

[hlmacdon]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

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Better yet, can A file INR as it was sent to B?

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No real protection there either as long as they have access to the relevant ebay/paypal/bank/credit accounts to initiate a claim. Technically ebay cares if it is a forwarding company as that will invalidate MBG (even that has caveats) but paypal doesn't care at all and can trump any ebay decision anyways. Without tracking though it doesn't really matter regardless as paypal will lose any chargeback filed. Normally if you were a retailer you might send that transaction to manual review if bill/ship don't match and verify with the credit card company if the shipping address is on file as a secondary address then decline the transaction if it is not. Unfortunately on ebay that will just net you a slap on the wrist (ebay will insist you ship regardless) and a very likely seller defect. Catch 22 situation with selling in Canada.

[femmefan1946]

The seller ships to the address on the Paypal account.

A PP account can have several addresses.

At one time these might be called 'gift' addresses, which indicates their primary use.

If A used his PP account and gave B's address, he can file an INR, but cannot win an INR, since he gave the address.

Want another wrinkle? From time to time PP has suddenly reverted to an old buyer address. 

And the buyer loses the INR because she didn't check to make sure the address was still correct.

And telling someone what eBay or PP rules are, does not make him an eBay employee.

Telling someone not to run red lights does not make me a police officer.

[recped]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

I am getting paranoid due to Ebay and Paypal regulations.

A new buyer buys a $100 + item and then someone else pays for it.

Would this qualify for an unauthorized charge back by the person that pays?

I have had 3 of these recently.

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There is nothing unusual about this AT ALL. I've seen it hundreds perhaps thousands of times.

FYI - No buyer needs to use their real name when they open an eBay account, they do need to use their real name (even that can be fudged) to open a PayPal account. Anyone who has a PayPal account can use whatever name and address they like for a Shipping Address.

ANY eBay transactions paid using PayPal and a credit card can be charged back for Unauthorized Use, all anyone needs to do is call their cc company and say "I didn't authorize that transaction".

I'll tell you what I do as a seller....I don't waste my time trying to vet every buyer, I don't check their feedback, I don't compare addresses between PayPal and eBay, I don't compare names, I don't do any of that stuff.

I sleep VERY well and in over 18 years on eBay I can count on one hand the number of Unauthorized Use claims I've had (and I've never lost a single one of them).

[esclyons]

as I wrote in a previous post, you have to have your comfort level when shipping items.. A personal level that you feel o.k. with shipping   untracked, and willing to take a hit..  If it is lost or a chargeback to you..  Whenever my limit is reached it goes with tracking,  I have personally had 2 charge backs in the last 2-3 months.. Both of them where from Quebec if that matters..  but fortunately I had sent them registered mail,  so I was protected by seller protection, through PayPal..  Long story short, PayPal lost both cases to the bank, so Paypal had to cover me, and reimburse the buyer..   So it doesn't really matter if you do everything right, there are scammers out there who have beat the system and will continue do to the same.. so the best advice I can offer is what everyone else is saying, cover your butt..

[ricarmic]

Covering your butt comes in many forms.

To some it is increasing use of tracked items. This provides a somewhat no worry approach but can prove relatively expensive though across a large number of items.

To others it is utilizing cookie jar insurance. This provides a more worrisome approach on a transactional basis but will usually prove much less expensive across a large number of items (depending on which categories used).

To others it is playing the odds. This provides probably the most worrisome approach on a transactional basis, but across a large number of items (category dependant again) it is probably the cheapest given nothing extra needs to be charged, so theoretically the prices are lower which theoretically provides more buyers.

Personally I primarily utilize the cookie jar insurance, invoking the tracking when my spider senses tingle.

Informationally, here are my annual loss results, remember though that I'm in a relatively safe category (stamps):

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Self-insurance-cookie-jar-RICARMICs-statistics-to-2017/m...