eBay

futuretech_liquidations · ‎09-09-2015

Recently we had the unfortunate opportunity of experiencing eBay's Return Policy due to several bad buyers purchasing the wrong items or just plain changing their minds.

Needless to say, most if not all, opened a Return Request using the NAD or ITEM IS DEFECTIVE options and a few (2) actually were honest and said they just did not want the item and/or they bought the wrong item.

To our amazement, ebay found in favor or the buyer on all cases except for one (1) since they buyer never provided return tracking number within the specified period.

The net result to us was a $160 loss for outbound shipping costs we incurred with both CanadaPOST and UPS.

One buyer put the reason for the Return was that they did not need the item anymore, another buyer bid on an auction listing for an item that was listed as FOR PARTS ONLY / NOT WORKING and the reason he put for wanting to return the item as DEFECTIVE/NOT WORKING - yes you are reading it correctly - and Yes ebay allowed this buyer to Return the item and we were forced to refund this buyer the original winning bid amount along with original shipping costs. Plus to top is all off ebay never refunded us the commission they collected on this transaction not even the amount they charged us for the shipping.

They continued to find in favor with all the Return Requests that were opened and only once did they find in our favor which was only because the buyer had not responded and/or provided the tracking number had they done so we would have lost that case also.

We are very very unhappy about this route that eBaY is taking when it comes to Returns - seems like they devised there policy with a nice little known fact that allows them to make money off each and every case that gets opened.

The way they are making money is on the Shipping portion of the amount paid by the buyer. Think about it, each time a return is found in favor of a buyer the original shipping costs that they paid and also refund back to them automatically but they get to keeps the percentage they charged you for the original sale of the item whereas you as a seller lose the shipping costs you paid to send the item to the buyer.

Example:

Buyer buys a $20 item and it costs you $9.00 to ship the item = $29 total cost - eBay takes a percentage of the $29 lets say for example purposed 5% which gives them $1.45 commission. six (6) days later the Buyer opens a Return Request - ebay finds in their favor and buyer returns the item on your dime and then ebaY refunds then $29.00 and keeps the $1.45 commission. So the total loss amount to the seller is $29+$1.45 = $30.45

Now take the $1.45 amount and multiply it several thousand times and you will see this is bring in Millions for them each year. All on the back of Sellers who did nothing wrong.

Basically if you as a seller offer a refund policy then eBay will use that against you to find in favor of the Buyer - One of their customer reps recommend that we DO NOT offer a return policy and simply sell all items with NO RETURNS ACCEPTED but even he could not guarantee that this would be prevent ebaY from deciding in the buyers favor.

Anyhow anyone else getting milk this way by eBay ? Just curisous to know how many of us are out there.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-09-2015

eBay has never kept their percentage when I've given a full refund to a buyer. Once an item is returned and I've refunded/cancelled the transaction, fvf has been credited.

Did you or the buyer escalate each of these cases or did you just accept the return request and then refund after the return? I've never asked ebay to step in and make a decision but perhaps they don't refund fvf when that happens.

For the parts not working item, you may be able to appeal the case but when you do this you should talk to a customer service rep...don't do it online or a bot will probably decide it. If you win, it's unlikely that you will get your original shipping back but you should get your fees credited and they might even refund you for the return shipping.

It's rarely a good idea for a seller to ask ebay to step in for a nad return but if you do that...make sure that is also done on the phone rather than online. It's not a good idea either to refuse a return and wait for the buyer to ask ebay to step in.

In the situation where the buyer said they changed their mind, assuming that you refunded after the return, I don't understand why you wouldn't get your fees back.

tobyshitzu · ‎09-09-2015

your listings offer returns, so you take returns. If you dont want returns, change to "no returns". it wont change anything if the buyer claims not as described. If they claim changed mind etc, you get the return request, say no, and its case closed ,

edit - I should have read to the bottom and see ebay already told you that

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-09-2015

Basically if you as a seller offer a refund policy then eBay will use that against you to find in favor of the Buyer - One of their customer reps recommend that we DO NOT offer a return policy and simply sell all items with NO RETURNS ACCEPTED but even he could not guarantee that this would be prevent ebaY from deciding in the buyers favor.

If cs really said that then they are an idiot. If you don't have a return policy and someone really doesn't want an item, it's very possible that they will claim an item isn't as described even if it is. eBay rarely rules again a nad. In most cases it seems that it is better to accept the nad and then later appeal so that you can get the defect removed. If you have a return policy, I think that less people are going to feel backed into a corner and will be willing to pay for the return.

It does look like you are selling in a category that tends to have more returns and/or problems than other categories.

futuretech_liquidations · ‎09-09-2015

Yes, our listings for the most part have a RETURN POLICY however we do specified that AS-IS / DEFECTIVE items are not returnable. This is where eBay tends to override sellers and force them to accept a return even on a AS-IS/FOR PARTS item. Does not matter if you sale all sales are final and/or no returns accepted they will find in the buyers favors.

We recently had a buyer bid on an auction for some cpu's - The listing was setup as a FOR PARTS / NOT WORKING listing - in our ad listing we included testing notes that indicated that the items were UNTESTED and that they were system pulls from defective desktop - in addition we put in clear bolded type FOR PARTS ONLY NO RETURNS AND NO REFUNDS

One (1) day after the Buyer received the item we opened a RETURN requested and put the REASON as DEFECTIVE / NOT WORKING and then added some comments as to how only 3 of the cpu's were working and that no of them were the ones he was hoping were working.

Guess what - eBay turns around and tells us we have to accept the RETURN even thou the listing stated clearly otherwise. They said they would ask the buyer to pay the return costs and when the item is returned they will refund the buyer the cost plus shipping.

We told them that the terms of sale clearly outlined that this listing offered a LOT of CPU's that were not returnable and that we would not accept the return nor authorize the return - we futher told eBay that if they refund the buyer then we will put the buyer into collections using our collection agency.

Which we did just today as we are not about to lose $200 in revenue just because eBay decided to ignore our Terms Of Sale and be generous with our money.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-09-2015

If the item is being returned, why would you lose $200?

I misread one of the paragraphs in your previous post as I thought that the cs rep was saying to not offer a return policy on

anything but I realize now that they were saying that if you do allow returns, then you allow them for any reason. That is actually stated somewhere in the rules.

If the listing is for the lot of 6 CPU's I can see why ebay is requiring you to take the return.

You would have been more likely to have won that case IF you had a no refund policy on that item. You did use the correct category for parts or not working but if I were you, I would list something along that line in the title. You do say that they are untested in the title but that didn't seem to be enough in this situation. Also, many buyers won't even see the no refunds in the description so you might want to think about putting it in the description box at the top of the page.

We all want buyers to read everything that we put in our listings but the facts are that most buyers do not read everything so it is best to put as much in the title and item specifics as we can.

maximus7001 · ‎09-10-2015

"put the buyer into collections using our collection agency."

This looks like a great way to recover from a flaky buyer. Tell us more. Does this work only within Canada?

futuretech_liquidations · ‎09-15-2015

It works all over North America.

reallynicestamps · ‎09-17-2015

No Returns is not No Refunds.

You can tell because they are spelled differently.

mr.elmwood · ‎09-17-2015

@reallynicestamps wrote:
No Returns is not No Refunds.

You can tell because they are spelled differently.

Yep. eBay has had a virtual 100% refund for any reason for a long time.

I quit banging my head against the wall, on this issue, a long time ago. It feels much better.

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tobyshitzu · ‎09-17-2015

@mr.elmwood wrote:
@reallynicestamps wrote:
No Returns is not No Refunds.

You can tell because they are spelled differently.
Yep. eBay has had a virtual 100% refund for any reason for a long time.

I quit banging my head against the wall, on this issue, a long time ago. It feels much better.

Only if you offer returns. So I keep mine at no returns and consider them on a case by case basis. They send "changed mind", "made mistake" etc and its no problem at all saying no, and case closed if they open one

pierrelebel · ‎09-17-2015

"They send "changed mind", "made mistake" etc "

I am curious. Does that happen often - as a percentage of all transactions?

tobyshitzu · ‎09-17-2015

No its rare. Its has happened a few times. Including even "my son played the game and didn't like it". No store anywhere will take returns like that, and you dont have to here as long as its set at no returns. A few of the 'can i return it" I suspect they found they could buy it cheaper elsewhere. There should be no reason for anyone to ever want to return anything im selling. If they ask before its mailed i'll always cancel, after its too late. Pointing out it says no returns is usually enough, the couple times they opened a case they lost

The often mentioned here 'ebay will make you refund for any reason" is wrong.

neatjerseys · ‎09-17-2015

I m surprised that these threads keep coming up in a way that sellers expect Ebay to right all wrongs. In so many policies Ebay is a stone wall. Anyone thinking a stone wall communicates will be disappointed.

I wont lie there has been times where Ebay has backed me up, but more times they just refused to listen. There are fights not worth fighting and then there are the ones that are. I have proven them wrong on cases that personally affected me. Though they never would admitted the fault, I have received apologize and the return of property and/ or funds every time I took them on. Have Not lost once