tracking required , not required

[jolfou-32]

Hi , so I guess my question is why does Ebay allow and accomadate shipping options with NO tracking included and then hold it agaisnt you becuase the customer didnt pay for a tracked shipment ? 

sent item from Nova Scotia on April 3 to the united kingdom 

ebay delivery time advised under 3 weeks 

canada post advised 4-6 weeks 

customer did not pay for the $150 tracked shipment no surprise who would 

my concern is I had to refund this item by force when it is just not yet delivered..according to canada post It had estimated 2 weeks left to go ....canada post cannot control what happens once it leaves the country 

so why is extra time not alloted on these deliveries 

we are not at fault if it takes  a week to get through customs etc or more 

I am discouraged and will not be shipping international anymore 

I reached out to ebay chat agent for help and was advised the case would not close until May 12 however less than 12 hours later they closed it and refunded a shipmenet still in transit ? 

I am very close to leaving this site and takin my business elsewhere 

more importantly I felt assured after talkign to chat agent that the appropriate wait time would be be passed first but no ....straight out lied to 

[brettjet38]

The Seller is responsible until the item arrives at the Buyer...

You can ship any way you wish, but you are responsible that the item arrives...

Never ship internationally via ground, you are just asking for trouble...

Never offer ground shipping on ANY international purchases...

You learned the hard way, tracking, tracking, tracking is always best for shipping, always...

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/posting-items/shipping-items?id=4077&st=3&pos=3&query=Shipping%20yo...

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/posting-items/tracking-items-youve-sold?id=4088

Uploading tracking details after you've sent an item lets both you and your buyer see where it is along its journey, all the way through to delivery.

Are you a buyer looking to track an item? Read our article on tracking an item you bought

When you upload tracking information you provide your buyer with more confidence that their item will reach them, as well as a better buying experience overall. Buyers are more confident their orders will arrive when they receive regular shipping status updates, and are less likely to file “Item not received” claims. By using one of the shipping carriers integrated with eBay and uploading tracking within your handling time, you're also protecting yourself in case your buyer doesn't receive the item and opens an eBay Money Back Guarantee request.

It's ALWAYS in the FINE PRINT!

You as the Seller are responsible if the item does not arrive...

[mrdutch1001]

"I am very close to leaving this site and takin my business elsewhere."..

Unless you plan to sell locally only, the "elsewhere" will not accommodate you any better unless YOU change your shipping habits. It's not up to the buyer to select a shipping method; it is the seller's responsibility to set proper and adequate shipping methods to any and all destinations; so don't expect other sites to just roll over and accommodate you, if you don't apply the proper and adequate shipping methods.

[rocketscollectibles]

Shipping is legally seller's responsability, not the buyer's one. If you ship lettermail/lettrepost you have no proof of shipment, it's just logic that there's no protection. No one can know if you really shipped, or did a mistake. If you ship untracked you must be ready to lose a package once in while. Either because it's lost or from false claims. This is how it is. Shipping untracked is a decision to be competitive and pocket the amount that would've been paid for tracking. Someone ready to pay $60 for something worth $60 won't pay $60 + $20, i'll never understand this vision. Basically it's sellers taking the shipping cost loss, from the total amount buyers are ready to pay. Not the opposite. You ship untracked to pay less and pocket more. Never ship a package untracked of an amount you're not ready to risk losing. 

Also shipping options offered are seller's decision, not sure why you blame eBay for not protecting, buyer for not paying, and canada post. I'll add that there's often delays but canada post letterpost international standards are 4-7 business days, not 4-6 weeks. So eBay estimate is not unnacurate here. 

If a INR case is opened you must refund. There's nothing to do. Again you have no proof of shipping, and shipping is seller's responsability. You can try contacting buyer later to see if they received it for a payback, but from experience it doesn't work. 

[rocketscollectibles]

tracking, tracking, tracking is always best for shipping, always...

Clearly not. That's a huge mistake to do that. It's mathematically a better business decision to take the loss of a package lost once in a while than paying for tracking for every single shipment. Paying for tracking is literally a $12-22 loss right away. It's like paying an insurance. You don't pay $20 to insure $30 items for a probability of loss of >1%. You will literally end paying a thousand dollar to cover a $30 loss. That's a dumb business decision. Also If a buyer is ready to pay $30 for something, he won't pay $30 + $20 shipping, to be competitive you must list at $30 total, you're the one taking that $20 loss. Or if you add that abusive shipping cost, you just won't sell at all because you overprice. Anyone being in a competitive market to be competitive must use lettermail. Up to the amount he can't risk losing or that is mathematically not worth anymore. It's about a risk/reward decision. Typically competitive sellers ships lettermail/letterpost orders up to $50-100. 

[reallynicestamps]

Because eBay sellers must be over 18, and therefore adults capable of making their own decisions.

Some factors we take into consideration when shipping are:

Cost of service

Speed of service

Value of purchase

Cost to us of purchase

Cost of tracking

Cost of occasional "loss"

Profit margin

Destination.

When was the shipment sent?

Which service was purchased?

How much will you lose by refunding the customer promptly?

Do you know the damage a single Defect will cause to your selling account?

What is your category?

Do you have the customer's Paypal address ?

I reached out to ebay chat agent for help and was advised the case would not close until May 12 however less than 12 hours later they closed it and refunded a shipmenet still in transit ?

I suspect that since you would not be able to prove either shipping or delivery, eBay decided in favour of the buyer.

Also.

The phone reps have a terrible reputation for getting you off the phone as soon as possible even if that mean giving you the advice you want to hear instead of the advice you need to have.


https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.

https://twitter.com/askebay?lang=en


https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851 -> Automated Assistant, type AGENT -> enter. You will then get more options.


The social media Chat accounts are covered by trained eBay employees with some authority.
And you get a transcript so you can compare what you heard with what you were told.
 

[brettjet38]

It depends on what you sell and the availability, if you are selling low-priced items manufactured in the millions then you have no choice but to use letter mail for most of your items...

And, using Letterpost to ship GOODs internationally is illegal but you already know that...

I ship $5.00 items via parcel post within Canada and buyers still pay the shipping, why because they are not available in the millions, like cards or stamps...

You cannot compare APPLES to ORANGES.

[rocketscollectibles]

I ship $5.00 items via parcel post within Canada and buyers still pay the shipping, why because they are not available in the millions, like cards or stamps...

You cannot compare APPLES to ORANGES.

I do not compare apples and orange, you're missing the whole thing. 

If you sucess to sell an item $5.00 + let's say $15.00 to keep it simple. Then it means your buyers are ready to pay $20.00 for that item. You could sell it $20.00 total, and ships lettermail. Lets keep it simple again and say lettermail is $3.00. You're literally throwing $12.00 every sale here. You're the one throwing it, not the buyer. Buyer is ready to pay $20.00 for that item. 

So you overpay $12.00 every sale to insure a $5.00 package lost once in a while. Basic maths, if you lose a package 1% of the time, you'll overpay $1200 every 100 orders to protect yourself against a $5.00 loss. You could have $1200 profit in your pockets, instead you saved a $5.00 loss! This is actually crazy and totally brainless. 

You came with this $5.00 exemple and this is such the extreme. On this amount you could lose your packages 50% of the time and i think it would still be a loss to ship tracked. This is just maths. This is mathematical decisions. In your exemple if i'm selling what you sell and i lose 1% of my package because i ship untracked, i'm doing $1200 profit more than you every 100 sales. You just throw $12.00 every sale to insure $5.00. 

[brettjet38]

You cannot ship items thinker than 20mm via lettermail, that excludes 99% of what is sold on eBay...

Apples & Oranges

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

The seller resumes all responsibility for an untracked item. Basically, it's the honor system.

Domestically, this works fine for items under a certain price point (let's say $50). You might have 1 out of 100 buyers or less report their item didn't arrive. You eat the loss for that 1 order, but the extra money you make by offering a lower priced product gets you more orders.

You have to know what you are doing with international shipments. Every shipping time is different for each country and service. Shipping times aren't always guaranteed. eBay's shipping estimate determines when something is late, not the actual real time shipping data or carrier estimate. So a buyer might see that the deliver window has elsapsed on eBay and wrongly assume the item is lost. 

While international shipping can be a great way to boost your volume of business, it isn't worth it to ship an expensive item untracked. 

Your best bet is to be polite with the buyer, and not assume it's a scam. You can politely invite them to let you know when it arrives so that they can arrange to re-pay for the item. This is standard fare in these situations on eBay. If it is a scammer, you obviously won't get paid back - but a big chunk of INRs usually come from an item taking longer than the generic delivery estimate you assigned to the shipping policy for the listing. Buys don't know all the ins and outs of this, so if their order page says it was supposed to arrive already, they assume something is wrong. 

[rocketscollectibles]

You cannot ship items thinker than 20mm via lettermail, that excludes 99% of what is sold on eBay...

Apples & Oranges

Author of the thread said he shipped untracked and you said to always always always use tracking. If you did not notice we're talking about the decision of shipping tracked vs untracked when it's indeed possible here.  Obviously when you can't ship lettermail you can't ship lettermail lmao. You're literally the one coming with an apple when we're talking about oranges. You point me out and argue by bringing off topic stuff. God i hate to interact with you. 

[brettjet38]

Then do not bother replying...

All "GOODS" shipped via international shipping are parcel post, tracking is always advised?!

This person did not ship using LETTER POST (which is illegal, but how you operate and advise others to also do so...)  they shipped ground small packets.

We are talking about parcels (tracked or not), not the illegal shipping of goods using international LETTERPOST which is again illegal, but you do not care...

I offer the facts based on the LAWS we have in place, you offer detours and illegal ways of circumventing those LAWS.

I am talking about shipping legally, not illegally...

...those are the Apples and Oranges to which I am referring.

[reallynicestamps]

Apples and oranges are both fruits.

Most usually include seeds.

Both apples and oranges have edible peels.

Both are good sources of fibre, energy, and Vitamin C.

Apples and oranges are portable and sturdy for packing in a brown bag lunch.

I'll go print some labels now.

[pjcdn2005]

@jolfou-32

 Not all sellers use ebay shipping so regardless of which services ebay offers, it is up to sellers to decide which service they  want to use and what each service does or does not offer. It is also up to the seller to know how ebay's system works so that the seller ships knowing what will happen should a buyer open  an item not received claim.

I agree that some of ebay's shipping time estimates are not realistic so when listing an item with international shipping or to the US, I try to use the options that give the longest delivery time.   I don't know all the times off the top of my head but I compared  your listings to one of mine. In one of your listing you are showing that you use international letterpost and in the other one you have small packets interntional.  If either of those items sold today, ebay gives a delivery time to Belgium of May  8-12.  My listing shows a delivery time to Belgium of May 18 - June 22 using Economy International Shipping which is just a generic term.  Using a generic term allows you to choose the service you are going to use when you actually print the label.  The long delivery time may scare away buyers but it is definitely more realistic than a very short delivery time.

[recped]

---

@brettjet38 wrote:

You cannot ship items thinker than 20mm via lettermail, that excludes 99% of what is sold on eBay...

Apples & Oranges

---

I'm not buying your 99% thing. About 75% of my Canadian sales are shipped via Lettermail (Cassettes. cd's, 7" vinyl, magazines), many of the classic eBay categories (Media, Stamps, Trading Cards, Coins, Postcards etc.) ship via Lettermail. Lots of stuff in newer categories like electronics accesories (cables, phone cases etc.) can ship lettermail. Of the last 5 items I bought from Canadian sellers on eBay only one (a Toner Cartridge) came as a package, the rest were all sent Lettermail.

[brettjet38]

I am not talking about LETTERMAIL I am referring to LETTERPOST two completely different things, maybe YOU should read before replying and learn about the differences between the two services.

I am talking about INTERNATIONAL shipping, not Canadian shipping.

Does nobody actually read?

The OP shipped a package INTERNATIONALLY from Canada to the UK.

[brettjet38]

In one of your listing you are showing that you use international letterpost and in the other one you have small packets interntional. 

Listing number?

[rocketscollectibles]

People reads. The thread was talking about the interest of shipping untracked over tracked, overall, because OP lost a package. And you came randomly with the morality and legally of shipping letterpost. You say 99% of the items listed can't be shipped by mail because they are thicker than 2mm, then after you say you're talking about letterpost. There's non-sense. It's like you're just looking to argue and point people. 

[pjcdn2005]

---

@brettjet38 wrote:

In one of your listing you are showing that you use international letterpost and in the other one you have small packets interntional. 

Listing number?

---

I don't know which of the op's  listings  I was looking at yesterday but it should be just as easy for you to look at her international shipping methods.  Most of them do show small packet international but I did see at least one or two that said letter post.  No idea if that was intentional or not.  

[jolfou-32]

Hi thanks for the replies everyone
I am just going to mark all my international as shipping ground to give the 30-90 say range
And I will continue to actually ship them small packet Air
It's the best save I think ...
Most of my items are books and small toys so they almost always go small packet Air no trouble
I just hate to refund a delivery just because someone got impatient
But I have a fix now
Thanks to all who responded
I appreciate it 🙂