Are Charge-backs the new way that buyers use to get refunds months after winning an auction

[anne_of_great_girdles]

My buyer asked Paypal for a charge-back refund after 3 months of purchase. Never had complaints or any communication within the 60 days of transaction, like many buyers, never left feedback so we think no news good news.NOT!!! Buyers can still get refunded months after transaction if they wish or if they have buyers remorse by asking a credit card charge-back thru Paypal saying that the transaction was not authorized by them.

I consider myself a good person and charge my American neighbours the same low shipping cost as my Canadian buyers here without the outrageous 16$ tracking number. I lost my claim case because of not charging a tracking number for a low cost item and trusting my buyer.

We here in Canada have the possibility to upload our proof of postage by showing the Post office bill. It is stated the date, the amount paid in shipping and the specific zip code of the buyer. Ebay or Paypal do not consider this a proof of shipment, to me it is a proof no ? In any case, even if they would accept the post office bill with the zip code a proof, I thought that after 60 days, claims were not allowed anymore so I don't keep the bills after 2 months.

Long story short, I lost my case, the buyer got his money back for an item bought 3 months ago, so even if you sellers think Ebay will protect you because the refund asked is after the 60 day period to open a case, if a buyer ask for a charge-back months after they bought from you, they will take back the money from your Paypal account and there is nothing you can say.
Why did they ask for a tracking number as a proof if the reason of the charge-back is not even about non-received package but NON AUTHORIZED PAYMENT ?

A seller at the bottom of the food chain 🙂

[hlmacdon]

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@anne_of_great_girdles wrote:

Why did they ask for a tracking number as a proof if the reason of the charge-back is not even about non-received package but NON AUTHORIZED PAYMENT ?

A seller at the bottom of the food chain 🙂

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A tracking number establishes where the item was sent to and proves the item was delivered. Paypal also has to respond to a chargeback when it is initiated through the cardholder's credit card company, but in general this is standard information requested when there is a chargeback case. Small business/personal seller sales are tricky as few standardize on tracking when selling items, particularly with lower value items. Your liability is 180 days, which is standard with paypal and other merchant account (credit card) providers.

[aubreyclay56]

This sounds underhanded by pay pal,this three month thing is bogus in the first place,i had a customer open a not as described case for a brand new item awhile back ,they had the item for a month it was a lime slicer the guy said it didnt work after selling a dozen of these things and everyone was happy,there were two parts to this slicer there was no possible way the item would malfunction,i did win my case with paypal but still got an item not as descibed mark againt me from ebay like how fair is that,buyers use every trick in the book to get free stuff from sellers and ebay and paypal just love to give dishonest buyers ther money back so they can come back and abuse another honest seller just tryin to get by amazing right

[recped]

Unauthorized Payment is most likely a chargeback done through the credit card company.

PayPal asks for any "tracking" info so YOU can win the case. Unauthorized Use chargebacks are easy to win if you have proof of shipping (you don't even need proof of delivery).

As for this being new....hardly and it's not usually a buyer trying to get their money back but rather an actual stolen account/credit card used in the original purchase.

Most cc companies will do these for up to 6 months, some even longer.

[hlmacdon]

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@aubreyclay56 wrote:

This sounds underhanded by pay pal,this three month thing is bogus in the first place,i had a customer open a not as described case for a brand new item awhile back ,they had the item for a month it was a lime slicer the guy said it didnt work after selling a dozen of these things and everyone was happy,there were two parts to this slicer there was no possible way the item would malfunction,i did win my case with paypal but still got an item not as descibed mark againt me from ebay like how fair is that,buyers use every trick in the book to get free stuff from sellers and ebay and paypal just love to give dishonest buyers ther money back so they can come back and abuse another honest seller just tryin to get by amazing right

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It's frustrating but paypal is bound by the same standards you are in the event of a credit card chargeback. Credit card company reverses on paypal, who in turn reverses on you, in the event of a chargeback. Paypal changing the protection to 180 days simply mirrors what is already in place from credit card companies, and what they, an in turn you, were liable for. The not as described cases are unfortunately a grey area where there is little proof other than what a buyer can offer. I'd rather be dealing with an unauthorized charge case as those are simply dealt with.

[anne_of_great_girdles]

A tracking number from Canada is $16 , I wouldn't sell anything if I would charge that, most of my listings go for $4.29 shipping cost. Ebay should adjust rules with Canadian reality. Tracking numbers from the USA are cheaper, I wouldn't even tell ''Mon histoire triste'' here if I could always give such expensive tracking numbers.

As a courtesy, if a buyer wins an item that got up over $50, I still charge $4.29 but invest the money into tracking and absorb the rest of the cost. I make less but sleep better.

[pjcdn2005]

We here in Canada have the possibility to upload our proof of postage by showing the Post office bill. It is stated the date, the amount paid in shipping and the specific zip code of the buyer. Ebay or Paypal do not consider this a proof of shipment, to me it is a proof no ?

Did Paypal tell you that they would not accept that as proof of shipping in an unauthorized chargeback case?  It was my understanding that they would look at that info when only proof of shipping was needed.

[hlmacdon]

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@anne_of_great_girdles wrote:

A tracking number from Canada is $16 , I wouldn't sell anything if I would charge that, most of my listings go for $4.29 shipping cost. Ebay should adjust rules with Canadian reality. Tracking numbers from the USA are cheaper, I wouldn't even tell ''Mon histoire triste'' here if I could always give such expensive tracking numbers.

As a courtesy, if a buyer wins an item that got up over $50, I still charge $4.29 but invest the money into tracking and absorb the rest of the cost. I make less but sleep better.

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Unfortunately it's not necessarily ebay that makes the rules. Buyer protections are really just marketing gimmicks for the standard chargeback procedures in place with any payment processors/merchant account providers. Those protections are independent of any marketplace policies. They won't make exceptions for Canada. The rules are geared towards mass merchants where practices are uniform.

If you are worried about chargebacks from non-delivery, there is always the option of self-insuring (amortizing a cost to be added to your shipping) or third party insurance providers who insure non-trackable shipments. With unauthorized charges you have to look at the T&C's of whatever payment processor you are using to provide protection against those so they can be trickier to deal with. Paypal is actually more forgiving in this area than some other marketplace payment processors.

[dosagushi]

I had one of these last year show up about 5 months after a purchase,

I did not keep the postage receipt that long. They said they need delivery confirmation. The customs slip is not enough. Tracking required. Lost the case, out 75$ USd item and the shipping fee.  😞

[pjcdn2005]

They don't need delivery confirmation for an unauthorized use chargeback..only proof that the item was shipped.

You should keep all of your receipts for tax purposes.